England vs. Ireland - Saturday 21st Nov

[Banquo]

Dupont maybe. Smith just passes more in more areas, which I happen to prefer but it's just a different bias/default. Dupont we'll have to see now video analysis will go to town on him

The mindset and style of passing more often imo should be the default (certainly outside the 22) it leaves more options open for a fraction longer. And Smith certainly seems sharper in thought and deed.

I would prefer more passing too, but that's not a better identification process it's just looking for something else. And we can even reference the video Raggs linked up a while back (probably more than a year) where Smith was talking about how TJ makes more breaks, and breaks isn't something Smith looks for especially, Smith is focussed on the pass

It was the mindset I was referring to you, but that’s passed you by (sic). If you think pass then breaking is still on, as is kicking. If you think kicking, then that’s likely the only option.

[Digby]

The mindset and style of passing more often imo should be the default (certainly outside the 22) it leaves more options open for a fraction longer. And Smith certainly seems sharper in thought and deed.

I would prefer more passing too, but that's not a better identification process it's just looking for something else. And we can even reference the video Raggs linked up a while back (probably more than a year) where Smith was talking about how TJ makes more breaks, and breaks isn't something Smith looks for especially, Smith is focussed on the pass

It was the mindset I was referring to you, but that’s passed you by (sic). If you think pass then breaking is still on, as is kicking. If you think kicking, then that’s likely the only option.

I've made this claim before, but I don't think you can approach a ruck with options open, there has to be a bias, and then there's team tactics too, and then there's the game itself.

Youngs does pass, and sometimes even run so he's not closed off, but he kicks more than a lot of people like because he's skewed, just not more than Eddie likes, I'd be more likely to think Eddie can show him footage saying you should have kicked there

If you change to looks to pass first you can switch, but you will lose some fraction of time to allow a defence to adjust. And with defence typically winning a phase it doesn't need the extra time

[Banquo]

I would prefer more passing too, but that's not a better identification process it's just looking for something else. And we can even reference the video Raggs linked up a while back (probably more than a year) where Smith was talking about how TJ makes more breaks, and breaks isn't something Smith looks for especially, Smith is focussed on the pass

It was the mindset I was referring to you, but that’s passed you by (sic). If you think pass then breaking is still on, as is kicking. If you think kicking, then that’s likely the only option.

I've made this claim before, but I don't think you can approach a ruck with options open, there has to be a bias, and then there's team tactics too, and then there's the game itself.

Youngs does pass, and sometimes even run so he's not closed off, but he kicks more than a lot of people like because he's skewed, just not more than Eddie likes, I'd be more likely to think Eddie can show him footage saying you should have kicked there

If you change to looks to pass first you can switch, but you will lose some fraction of time to allow a defence to adjust. And with defence typically winning a phase it doesn't need the extra time

If you start kick first then that’s your only option....I’m not criticising Youngs per se, even though his basics and decision making are below par (and the latter because imo he’s an instinctive player naturally, but a succession of coaches have coached that out of him), but the mindset he has to adopt because of Eddies instructions.

[Banquo]

Is this on both Prime and C4? If so, what’s the recommendation on channel choice?

[JellyHead]

Is this on both Prime and C4? If so, what’s the recommendation on channel choice?

Both. I watched the Geogia game on Prime but will watch this one in C4 HD. Picture was ok fir me in Prime but the loss of the ability to pause and rewind annoyed me. Can't comment on commentary though.

[Oakboy]

Is this on both Prime and C4? If so, what’s the recommendation on channel choice?

Both. I watched the Geogia game on Prime but will watch this one in C4 HD. Picture was ok fir me in Prime but the loss of the ability to pause and rewind annoyed me. Can't comment on commentary though.

Agreed. Prime was OK apart from the ball pixellating in long kicks as others have mentioned. The C4 HD picture will be marginally better. I never watch the build-up or HT chat and care little about the commentators - will they be the same, in any case? Or, are there two separate productions/presentations?

[Raggs]

I could pause and rewind primewithout issue. Didn't use it much though. Did lose some picture quality though.

Not sure what I'll use yet.

[FKAS]

I could pause and rewind primewithout issue. Didn't use it much though. Did lose some picture quality though.

Not sure what I'll use yet.

I'm going for a dual screen approach. Tigers will be in BT Sport on the Sky box then I was going to use the fire stick on the other TV to have England in Prime. Agree the picture wasn't the best last time. I suspect that Amazon will have worked on that since, they won't like the idea of offering an inferior product and clearly want to market themselves as a genuine sports broadcast option going forward.

[Digby]

It was the mindset I was referring to you, but that’s passed you by (sic). If you think pass then breaking is still on, as is kicking. If you think kicking, then that’s likely the only option.

I've made this claim before, but I don't think you can approach a ruck with options open, there has to be a bias, and then there's team tactics too, and then there's the game itself.

Youngs does pass, and sometimes even run so he's not closed off, but he kicks more than a lot of people like because he's skewed, just not more than Eddie likes, I'd be more likely to think Eddie can show him footage saying you should have kicked there

If you change to looks to pass first you can switch, but you will lose some fraction of time to allow a defence to adjust. And with defence typically winning a phase it doesn't need the extra time

If you start kick first then that’s your only option....I’m not criticising Youngs per se, even though his basics and decision making are below par (and the latter because imo he’s an instinctive player naturally, but a succession of coaches have coached that out of him), but the mindset he has to adopt because of Eddies instructions.

Either way you'd be adjusting your footwork if going on the fly, and either way you'd lose a little time though that matters slightly more if adjusting to pass. But it's surely more the approach and what you're scanning for. Against which Youngs is going to pass if someone is calling for the ball, so mainly people might be saying they're available, but they're not saying FFS give me the ball

I remain very interested in how often our front row act as chasers of kicks. That's so far away from things I ever expected, that's making to watching people like Rudisha and thinking holy shit he's turned the 800m into a sprint event. I thought we were being radical years back with Lawes and Launch closing so fast on the 1st receiver and midfield on defence, but even that wasn't someone like George running 20-30 sprints alongside a centre or winger chasing quite so many kicks.

If we want Youngs to adjust it's what he's looking for as he closes on the ball that needs to change, he is without doubt looking to kick, Smith is looking to pass which is why Smith misses some chances to run 'cause he's having a perfunctory look on one side of the ruck and unless there's a fecking obvious hole in the defence he's looking to get the pass right, some other 9s are looking for the chance to run and that slows their adjusting to a kick or pass. And I again think Eddie thinks we're missing chances to kick more than he's worried about kicking too much.

[JellyHead]

I could pause and rewind primewithout issue. Didn't use it much though. Did lose some picture quality though.

Not sure what I'll use yet.

Weird, I just didn't have those options. I do on other Prime streaming stuff.

[Raggs]

I could pause and rewind primewithout issue. Didn't use it much though. Did lose some picture quality though.

Not sure what I'll use yet.

Weird, I just didn't have those options. I do on other Prime streaming stuff.

I paused it 5 minutes from half time, ate my lunch, came back, watched the last 5 minutes and skipped the half time break back into live play just kicking off, so it definitely worked for me .

[Banquo]

I've made this claim before, but I don't think you can approach a ruck with options open, there has to be a bias, and then there's team tactics too, and then there's the game itself.

Youngs does pass, and sometimes even run so he's not closed off, but he kicks more than a lot of people like because he's skewed, just not more than Eddie likes, I'd be more likely to think Eddie can show him footage saying you should have kicked there

If you change to looks to pass first you can switch, but you will lose some fraction of time to allow a defence to adjust. And with defence typically winning a phase it doesn't need the extra time

If you start kick first then that’s your only option....I’m not criticising Youngs per se, even though his basics and decision making are below par (and the latter because imo he’s an instinctive player naturally, but a succession of coaches have coached that out of him), but the mindset he has to adopt because of Eddies instructions.

Either way you'd be adjusting your footwork if going on the fly, and either way you'd lose a little time though that matters slightly more if adjusting to pass. But it's surely more the approach and what you're scanning for. Against which Youngs is going to pass if someone is calling for the ball, so mainly people might be saying they're available, but they're not saying FFS give me the ball

I remain very interested in how often our front row act as chasers of kicks. That's so far away from things I ever expected, that's making to watching people like Rudisha and thinking holy shit he's turned the 800m into a sprint event. I thought we were being radical years back with Lawes and Launch closing so fast on the 1st receiver and midfield on defence, but even that wasn't someone like George running 20-30 sprints alongside a centre or winger chasing quite so many kicks.

If we want Youngs to adjust it's what he's looking for as he closes on the ball that needs to change, he is without doubt looking to kick, Smith is looking to pass which is why Smith misses some chances to run 'cause he's having a perfunctory look on one side of the ruck and unless there's a fecking obvious hole in the defence he's looking to get the pass right, some other 9s are looking for the chance to run and that slows their adjusting to a kick or pass. And I again think Eddie thinks we're missing chances to kick more than he's worried about kicking too much.

Well exactly, that’s what I was saying (meant) on mindset....but I’d maintain that looking to pass still gives you a run option, whereas looking to kick, means the others are totally closed off.

I’ve said my bit already on scanning and communication.

[Digby]

If you start kick first then that’s your only option....I’m not criticising Youngs per se, even though his basics and decision making are below par (and the latter because imo he’s an instinctive player naturally, but a succession of coaches have coached that out of him), but the mindset he has to adopt because of Eddies instructions.

Either way you'd be adjusting your footwork if going on the fly, and either way you'd lose a little time though that matters slightly more if adjusting to pass. But it's surely more the approach and what you're scanning for. Against which Youngs is going to pass if someone is calling for the ball, so mainly people might be saying they're available, but they're not saying FFS give me the ball

I remain very interested in how often our front row act as chasers of kicks. That's so far away from things I ever expected, that's making to watching people like Rudisha and thinking holy shit he's turned the 800m into a sprint event. I thought we were being radical years back with Lawes and Launch closing so fast on the 1st receiver and midfield on defence, but even that wasn't someone like George running 20-30 sprints alongside a centre or winger chasing quite so many kicks.

If we want Youngs to adjust it's what he's looking for as he closes on the ball that needs to change, he is without doubt looking to kick, Smith is looking to pass which is why Smith misses some chances to run 'cause he's having a perfunctory look on one side of the ruck and unless there's a fecking obvious hole in the defence he's looking to get the pass right, some other 9s are looking for the chance to run and that slows their adjusting to a kick or pass. And I again think Eddie thinks we're missing chances to kick more than he's worried about kicking too much.

Well exactly, that’s what I was saying (meant) on mindset....but I’d maintain that looking to pass still gives you a run option, whereas looking to kick, means the others are totally closed off.

I’ve said my bit already on scanning and communication.

I think any which way you're having to adjust. But arguably there's a bigger impact on adjusting away from the kick because the defence having that extra fraction of a second means more to the pass or run. Given though Youngs does mix up passing and kicking (and even the occasional run) I don't think the bias to kicking closes off other options

[Banquo]

Either way you'd be adjusting your footwork if going on the fly, and either way you'd lose a little time though that matters slightly more if adjusting to pass. But it's surely more the approach and what you're scanning for. Against which Youngs is going to pass if someone is calling for the ball, so mainly people might be saying they're available, but they're not saying FFS give me the ball

I remain very interested in how often our front row act as chasers of kicks. That's so far away from things I ever expected, that's making to watching people like Rudisha and thinking holy shit he's turned the 800m into a sprint event. I thought we were being radical years back with Lawes and Launch closing so fast on the 1st receiver and midfield on defence, but even that wasn't someone like George running 20-30 sprints alongside a centre or winger chasing quite so many kicks.

If we want Youngs to adjust it's what he's looking for as he closes on the ball that needs to change, he is without doubt looking to kick, Smith is looking to pass which is why Smith misses some chances to run 'cause he's having a perfunctory look on one side of the ruck and unless there's a fecking obvious hole in the defence he's looking to get the pass right, some other 9s are looking for the chance to run and that slows their adjusting to a kick or pass. And I again think Eddie thinks we're missing chances to kick more than he's worried about kicking too much.

Well exactly, that’s what I was saying (meant) on mindset....but I’d maintain that looking to pass still gives you a run option, whereas looking to kick, means the others are totally closed off.

I’ve said my bit already on scanning and communication.

I think any which way you're having to adjust. But arguably there's a bigger impact on adjusting away from the kick because the defence having that extra fraction of a second means more to the pass or run. Given though Youngs does mix up passing and kicking (and even the occasional run) I don't think the bias to kicking closes off other options

Circular disagreement then.

[Mellsblue]

Well exactly, that’s what I was saying (meant) on mindset....but I’d maintain that looking to pass still gives you a run option, whereas looking to kick, means the others are totally closed off.

I’ve said my bit already on scanning and communication.

I think any which way you're having to adjust. But arguably there's a bigger impact on adjusting away from the kick because the defence having that extra fraction of a second means more to the pass or run. Given though Youngs does mix up passing and kicking (and even the occasional run) I don't think the bias to kicking closes off other options

Circular disagreement.

New name for this website?

[Mikey Brown]

Ha. Dylan Hartley doing his best to disagree with everything Gabby Logan says. I can’t believe how much I enjoy him as a pundit now.

Have Amazon decided they’ll push the line that endless kicking is actually great and we’re all dullards for not enjoying it more.

[fivepointer]

The Hask is on C4. Amazon cannot compete with that. No one could.

[16th man]

The Hask is on C4. Amazon cannot compete with that. No one could.

Some wonderfully tortuous logic to his claim that Itoje isn't a lions captain yet, as he needs to develop his leadership, but that Farrell should be Lions captain as he's developing leadership.

[Banquo]

Can’t decide which channel. Wanted to give C4 a go, but the Hask and the Splash.....

[Banquo]

The Hask is on C4. Amazon cannot compete with that. No one could.

Some wonderfully tortuous logic to his claim that Itoje isn't a lions captain yet, as he needs to develop his leadership, but that Farrell should be Lions captain as he's developing leadership.

If Faz is Lions captain I will spit the dummy

[Danno]

Can’t decide which channel. Wanted to give C4 a go, but the Hask and the Splash.....

came to post exactly this. Ads on Amazon atm but if Flats is in again, I'll stick to it.

[Banquo]

Can’t decide which channel. Wanted to give C4 a go, but the Hask and the Splash.....

came to post exactly this. Ads on Amazon atm but if Flats is in again, I'll stick to it.

Well played, Flats swings it.

[Danno]

Faz might - big might - not get picked. Russell is a no brainer, Gatland is gonna pick a Welshman, Ford creates so much more, better 12s in Parkes, Bundee Aki, Manu.

It's the hope that kills you

[Banquo]

Fck it’s Cotter, forgot that. Sound also tinny.

[Banquo]

Faz might - big might - not get picked. Russell is a no brainer, Gatland is gonna pick a Welshman, Ford creates so much more, better 12s in Parkes, Bundee Aki, Manu.

It's the hope that kills you

Russell certainly is lacking brains, but not sure that’s what you meant