RugbyRebels

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:59 pm That would be my starting front row.

Go Rodd-ers!!!

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:18 pm

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:40 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:43 am

I advocate T Willis because I think he is potentially the best No 8. The debate over the others does cover claims that nobody has stood up sufficiently to be counted for England and, in Dombrandt's case, hints (rightly or wrongly) that he is lacking in 80 minute application in some games. That is the area where I think Willis will prove the best. His graft and character shine through (in club games anyway) no matter what the game situation.

In the last seven years, and especially in the last three, England performances have featured constant under-performance. Clarity of approach is a big factor in SB's message and I accept the implied criticism of his predecessor in highlighting that. The other big factor for me was the tendency for some players to be in cruise mode, possibly because of lack of clarity but also, IMO, a lack of out-and-out doggedness/determination to not be beaten, no matter what the coaching failures. I'd pick both Willises to provide that basic gutsiness ahead of all the others. Not far behind are Lawes and both Currys but I see the other candidates further back.

Of course, if SB gets everything right, priorities might change. For example, Dombrandt's hands and attacking linking could be a top requirement IF the rest of the pack are performing as a full-firing unit. The same could apply to Simmonds' pace, breakaway skills and try-scoring habits.

I can understand why SB backs his own ability to get the best out of the pack as a unit by betting on Dombrandt or Simmonds to complement it. I err on the pessimistic side of the debate in wanting that extra bit of dog in the back row by wanting T Willis at 8. If SB has gone a step further by deciding that his choices are better short-term prospects who am I to argue?

One thing I do want to call out is the inconsistency of how players are judged. I think there are some unfair perceptions re. Dombrandt’s 80 minute ‘application’ that are at best debatable.

Its cos he ermm...looks like he could do with a bit more conditioning, perhaps? and again, that might be unfair.

Spiffy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:04 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:18 pm

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:40 pm



One thing I do want to call out is the inconsistency of how players are judged. I think there are some unfair perceptions re. Dombrandt’s 80 minute ‘application’ that are at best debatable.

Its cos he ermm...looks like he could do with a bit more conditioning, perhaps? and again, that might be unfair.

Maybe he wants to be Dean Richards Mk II ?

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:00 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:59 pm That would be my starting front row.

Go Rodd-ers!!!

well, ok.

How about the rest.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:25 pm Those idiots forgot about Freeman.

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:59 pm
I should go back to doing the minute-by-minute recaps again. I stopped doing them, partly out of a lack of time (and because Amazon's system isn't conducive to the rewinding and pausing required to watch and commentate that way) and partly because I barely had the stomach to watch some of our latter performances once, let alone in microscopic detail, but I found they really challenged my assumptions around who had done well and badly. If we don't turn in utter drudge against Scotland, I'll see if I can make the time.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:44 pm
I should go back to doing the minute-by-minute recaps again… I'll see if I can make the time.

Puja

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:43 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:59 pm
I should go back to doing the minute-by-minute recaps again. I stopped doing them, partly out of a lack of time (and because Amazon's system isn't conducive to the rewinding and pausing required to watch and commentate that way) and partly because I barely had the stomach to watch some of our latter performances once, let alone in microscopic detail, but I found they really challenged my assumptions around who had done well and badly. If we don't turn in utter drudge against Scotland, I'll see if I can make the time.

Puja

You definitely should, but I totally understand why you stopped. Games over the last couple of years have been painful to watch in real time, let alone on a detailed, minute-by-minute watch.

I liked them for the exact point you mentioned around challenging assumptions/shining a light on the small but important points of detail that are easily missed in real-time.

16th man wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:05 pm

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:43 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:59 pm
I should go back to doing the minute-by-minute recaps again. I stopped doing them, partly out of a lack of time (and because Amazon's system isn't conducive to the rewinding and pausing required to watch and commentate that way) and partly because I barely had the stomach to watch some of our latter performances once, let alone in microscopic detail, but I found they really challenged my assumptions around who had done well and badly. If we don't turn in utter drudge against Scotland, I'll see if I can make the time.

Puja

You definitely should, but I totally understand why you stopped. Games over the last couple of years have been painful to watch in real time, let alone on a detailed, minute-by-minute watch.

I liked them for the exact point you mentioned around challenging assumptions/shining a light on the small but important points of detail that are easily missed in real-time.

We'll be able to see if the new laws do speed up the game too.

Maybe we'll all be nostalgic for classics such as Minute 53, we just about get a scrum set

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:44 pm

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:23 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:59 pm

While I agree that JWillis hasn't exactly got a long, proven history of internationals, I recall him impressing every time he's managed to get on the pitch for more than 2 seconds.

Puja

.

I should go back to doing the minute-by-minute recaps again. I stopped doing them, partly out of a lack of time (and because Amazon's system isn't conducive to the rewinding and pausing required to watch and commentate that way) and partly because I barely had the stomach to watch some of our latter performances once, let alone in microscopic detail, but I found they really challenged my assumptions around who had done well and badly. If we don't turn in utter drudge against Scotland, I'll see if I can make the time.

Puja

Yes please, I've missed them.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:57 am I can’t wait for Jngf to flip out if Curry wears 6.

SDHoneymonster wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:08 am One of my moans about the original squad when named was that it featured a few too many options at openside at the expense of other positions, but when you take into account Willis was always going to have to travel back for fallow weekends outside of the window it makes a lot more sense. If the reports are true then that's the back row I would like to see, although I wonder if that's what Borthwick had in mind all along or whether Lawes' unavailability has made him change his plans.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:11 pm Daly out, Lawrence in, Slade out, Watson in, so who knows?

Still Kelly and Tuilagi at 12, Marchant and Lawrence at 13 to choose from?