RugbyRebels

On a more positive note, Brazil’s thundercunt of a leader has contracted the pest

morepork wrote:On a more positive note, Brazil’s thundercunt of a leader has contracted the pest

I was also cheerful about this, until a Brazilian acquaintance noted that it's almost certainly a lie. He's claimed a positive test so that he can shake it off within a week and prove to the Brazilian people that coronavirus isn't very serious like he said.

Puja

Puja wrote:

morepork wrote:On a more positive note, Brazil’s thundercunt of a leader has contracted the pest

I was also cheerful about this, until a Brazilian acquaintance noted that it's almost certainly a lie. He's claimed a positive test so that he can shake it off within a week and prove to the Brazilian people that coronavirus isn't very serious like he said.

Puja

Sadly, your acquaintance is probably correct to be cynical. Standby for pictures of him doing press-ups in a week or so once he has shaken off a minor cold like illness.

Sandydragon wrote:

Puja wrote:

morepork wrote:On a more positive note, Brazil’s thundercunt of a leader has contracted the pest

I was also cheerful about this, until a Brazilian acquaintance noted that it's almost certainly a lie. He's claimed a positive test so that he can shake it off within a week and prove to the Brazilian people that coronavirus isn't very serious like he said.

Puja

Sadly, your acquaintance is probably correct to be cynical. Standby for pictures of him doing press-ups in a week or so once he has shaken off a minor cold like illness.

Fit as a butcher's cão.

Sandydragon wrote: Sadly, your acquaintance is probably correct to be cynical. Standby for pictures of him doing press-ups in a week or so once he has shaken off a minor cold like illness.

That and oddly behaving new cases/death curves. to show 'world beating' mortality rates.
It's important to remind the people how strong and superior they are, and what a superb health service the government are providing.This feelgood factor will surely stave off unrest and gain more votes, deservedly so. (not talking Brazil here).
Not sure who's winning the willy-waving atm.

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:
And that's what really hurts...

it wears me out

And yet it could have been worse.

I don't for one second think Corbyn and his team would have handled this any better. Here we are taking the piss out of the Americans for their binary choice, but ours wasn't that much different (arguably theirs is a better one).

I appreciate this is totally hypothetical, but I'm not sure you appreciate how world-class bad Johnson has been here. Fair enough if he was being generally mediocre, who can say if Corbyn would be any better than mediocre? But the UK is leading the world in per capita excess deaths (at least as far as we know), and certainly in the top two or three in several measures, so it seems unreasonable to assume Corbyn would match Johnson's world-beating incompetence.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:
it wears me out

And yet it could have been worse.

I don't for one second think Corbyn and his team would have handled this any better. Here we are taking the piss out of the Americans for their binary choice, but ours wasn't that much different (arguably theirs is a better one).

I appreciate this is totally hypothetical, but I'm not sure you appreciate how world-class bad Johnson has been here. Fair enough if he was being generally mediocre, who can say if Corbyn would be any better than mediocre? But the UK is leading the world in per capita excess deaths (at least as far as we know), and certainly in the top two or three in several measures, so it seems unreasonable to assume Corbyn would match Johnson's world-beating incompetence.

I do love this line that ‘if you don’t agree with me you really can’t understand/appreciate the issue’. It never fails to win the argument.
We have some of the world’s worst mortality rates vs both infection numbers and ICU numbers. We have the highest % of obese people in Europe and one of the oldest pops. Is that all Boris’s fault, too? (Other than the fact he adds to the obesity numbers). I know it suits your narrative to say it’s all Boris’s fault, and some of it is, but it just ain’t true.
I’m not sure you appreciate (I hope I phrased that correctly) how many of the mistakes are from decisions that have not been made by politicians, Boris or otherwise.
On what evidence do you think Corbyn would’ve led this country to salvation. He’s had one chance at being a leader and after being mostly useless and presiding over two lost elections (I know, I know, it was all the fault of the media/red Tories/duped working class), he’s back on the back benches doing what he does best.
If you were arguing that Starmer would be doing a better job then I’d be inclined to agree with you.

Mellsblue wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: And yet it could have been worse.

I don't for one second think Corbyn and his team would have handled this any better. Here we are taking the piss out of the Americans for their binary choice, but ours wasn't that much different (arguably theirs is a better one).

I appreciate this is totally hypothetical, but I'm not sure you appreciate how world-class bad Johnson has been here. Fair enough if he was being generally mediocre, who can say if Corbyn would be any better than mediocre? But the UK is leading the world in per capita excess deaths (at least as far as we know), and certainly in the top two or three in several measures, so it seems unreasonable to assume Corbyn would match Johnson's world-beating incompetence.

I do love this line that ‘if you don’t agree with me you really can’t understand/appreciate the issue’. It never fails to win the argument.
We have some of the world’s worst mortality rates vs both infection numbers and ICU numbers. We have the highest % of obese people in Europe and one of the oldest pops. Is that all Boris’s fault, too? (Other than the fact he adds to the obesity numbers). I know it suits your narrative to say it’s all Boris’s fault, and some of it is, but it just ain’t true.
I’m not sure you appreciate (I hope I phrased that correctly) how many of the mistakes are from decisions that have not been made by politicians, Boris or otherwise.
On what evidence do you think Corbyn would’ve led this country to salvation. He’s had one chance at being a leader and after being mostly useless and presiding over two lost elections (I know, I know, it was all the fault of the media/red Tories/duped working class), he’s back on the back benches doing what he does best.
If you were arguing that Starmer would be doing a better job then I’d be inclined to agree with you.

This.

Despite the politicians wanting to appear in charge and everyone believing the, the truth is that many decision have not been taken by politicians, including some of the bad ones. It looks like SAGE have been advising a course of action which wasn't one we should have followed and whilst I think that might have been influenced by Johnson, it takes a leader with strong convictions that they are right and understand the problem to overrule their advisors.

I expect that Corbyn et al would have dithered just as much and whilst I think a better leader would have helped us act more decisively, Corbyn doesn't fit that mould of someone who would act that decisively in a crisis. Nothing about his leadership of the Labour party makes me think he can act decisively.

Starmer would have been perfect for this.

Stom wrote:Starmer would have been perfect for this.

A definite improvement, no arguments there.

Sandydragon wrote: This.

Despite the politicians wanting to appear in charge and everyone believing the, the truth is that many decision have not been taken by politicians, including some of the bad ones. It looks like SAGE have been advising a course of action which wasn't one we should have followed and whilst I think that might have been influenced by Johnson, it takes a leader with strong convictions that they are right and understand the problem to overrule their advisors.

I expect that Corbyn et al would have dithered just as much and whilst I think a better leader would have helped us act more decisively, Corbyn doesn't fit that mould of someone who would act that decisively in a crisis. Nothing about his leadership of the Labour party makes me think he can act decisively.

Sure, no worries, just giving my view on this hypothetical.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: This.

Despite the politicians wanting to appear in charge and everyone believing the, the truth is that many decision have not been taken by politicians, including some of the bad ones. It looks like SAGE have been advising a course of action which wasn't one we should have followed and whilst I think that might have been influenced by Johnson, it takes a leader with strong convictions that they are right and understand the problem to overrule their advisors.

I expect that Corbyn et al would have dithered just as much and whilst I think a better leader would have helped us act more decisively, Corbyn doesn't fit that mould of someone who would act that decisively in a crisis. Nothing about his leadership of the Labour party makes me think he can act decisively.

Sure, no worries, just giving my view on this hypothetical.

Of course, its all hypothetical.I think McDonnell would have been effective (FWIW), whilst I disagree with him about most things, I don't regard him as being a foolish man, far from it.

Sandydragon wrote: Of course, its all hypothetical.I think McDonnell would have been effective (FWIW), whilst I disagree with him about most things, I don't regard him as being a foolish man, far from it.

Yep. My biggest worry with Corbyn was that he’d hand the reins to McDonnell.

Mellsblue wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: Of course, its all hypothetical.I think McDonnell would have been effective (FWIW), whilst I disagree with him about most things, I don't regard him as being a foolish man, far from it.

Yep. My biggest worry with Corbyn was that he’d hand the reins to McDonnell.

Agreed. Although in a crisis where central grip was needed, I can think of worse people to have that control.

Such as Boris and Corbyn.

When did Cummings put Boris in charge?

At least you don't have someone actively discrediting a traditionally well resourced and respected disease prevention facility and pushing dangerous practice despite data that is glaringly obviously to the contrary. I think we will see active censoring of the media here before too long. Its impossible to overstate how bad the situation is being handled.

The Govt make decisions. SAGE advise. The buck for the catalogue of errors and misjudgements that have been made stops fairly and squarely at the Govts door.
You can be dealt a bad hand and play it well. On the other hand, you can play a bad hand poorly.

This excellent report from Sky details the appalling ineptitude of those tasked with the testing arrangements- https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus- ... s-12022566

fivepointer wrote:The Govt make decisions. SAGE advise. The buck for the catalogue of errors and misjudgements that have been made stops fairly and squarely at the Govts door.
You can be dealt a bad hand and play it well. On the other hand, you can play a bad hand poorly.

This excellent report from Sky details the appalling ineptitude of those tasked with the testing arrangements- https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus- ... s-12022566

Decisions are based on the advice given. The decision will only be as good as the advice it’s based on. Interrogating that advice is also important, as Banquo has repeatedly said, hence my point that Starmer would’ve possibly made a better fist of this. Again, I’m not trying to say the politicians are blameless but to say they are wholly to blame is wholly wrong. If you are using the term ‘govt’ correctly to include PHE, Whitty etc then a) I apologise for being a condescending t**t and b) I couldn’t agree more.

As for the test data. If people are demanding immediate transparency from a new system in an unprecedented situation then there will be flaws in the system. Admittedly, this is beyond poor but it could never be a perfectly secure system and no doubt you’d complain if they weren’t releasing the figures. In fact, there’s been nothing but complaints and conspiracy theories since figures were stopped from being publicised when it was realised exactly how inaccurate they were. There was certainly plenty of people on here and twatter demanding daily updates. Sadly, you can’t have it both ways. If you are looking for any consolation, then it seems the ONS (not accountable for this) is light years ahead of most of their European counterparts.....perhaps a case of bald men fighting over a comb.

All that said, since Gove’s speech and Cummings’s promise of a ‘hard rain’ the IFG have released/written/recorded plenty of stuff on the machinery of govt. The only conclusion I can come to from all of this is that COVID has shone a light on numerous parts of the state and most have been found wanting. From the politicians, their advisers and through to the civil service. Given the IFG stuff, it seems this hasn’t really come as a surprise to those in the know. I suppose the fact that plenty who you’d assume wished Cummings had never been born have come out in agreement with his assessment of the civil service, if not his remedy to cure it, should’ve been the give away without the need for me to waste hours researching it.
It’s also shone a light on a nation/population that is unhealthy, seemingly unable to use their common sense yet, ironically, demanding ever more information and news - due to them being an expert on everything on account of the fact they have a social media profile - and stating there must be a conspiracy theory if they aren’t satiated. Even more ironically, even more so than rain on your wedding day, people on here have demanded SAGE minutes be released yet continue to state ‘facts’ that the minutes show to be incorrect. As Diggers oft states, we get what we deserve.
What an omnishambles.

Mellsblue wrote:

fivepointer wrote:The Govt make decisions. SAGE advise. The buck for the catalogue of errors and misjudgements that have been made stops fairly and squarely at the Govts door.
You can be dealt a bad hand and play it well. On the other hand, you can play a bad hand poorly.

This excellent report from Sky details the appalling ineptitude of those tasked with the testing arrangements- https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus- ... s-12022566

Decisions are based on the advice given. The decision will only be as good as the advice it’s based on. Interrogating that advice is also important, as Banquo has repeatedly said, hence my point that Starmer would’ve possibly made a better fist of this. Again, I’m not trying to say the politicians are blameless but to say they are wholly to blame is wholly wrong. If you are using the term ‘govt’ correctly to include PHE, Whitty etc then a) I apologise for being a condescending t**t and b) I couldn’t agree more.

As for the test data. If people are demanding immediate transparency from a new system in an unprecedented situation then there will be flaws in the system. Admittedly, this is beyond poor but it could never be a perfectly secure system and no doubt you’d complain if they weren’t releasing the figures. In fact, there’s been nothing but complaints and conspiracy theories since figures were stopped from being publicised when it was realised exactly how inaccurate they were. There was certainly plenty of people on here and twatter demanding daily updates. Sadly, you can’t have it both ways. If you are looking for any consolation, then it seems the ONS (not accountable for this) is light years ahead of most of their European counterparts.....perhaps a case of bald men fighting over a comb.

All that said, since Gove’s speech and Cummings’s promise of a ‘hard rain’ the IFG have released/written/recorded plenty of stuff on the machinery of govt. The only conclusion I can come to from all of this is that COVID has shone a light on numerous parts of the state and most have been found wanting. From the politicians, their advisers and through to the civil service. Given the IFG stuff, it seems this hasn’t really come as a surprise to those in the know. I suppose the fact that plenty who you’d assume wished Cummings had never been born have come out in agreement with his assessment of the civil service, if not his remedy to cure it, should’ve been the give away without the need for me to waste hours researching it.
It’s also shone a light on a nation/population that is unhealthy, seemingly unable to use their common sense yet, ironically, demanding ever more information and news - due to them being an expert on everything on account of the fact they have a social media profile - and stating there must be a conspiracy theory if they aren’t satiated. Even more ironically, even more so than rain on your wedding day, people on here have demanded SAGE minutes be released yet continue to state ‘facts’ that the minutes show to be incorrect. As Diggers oft states, we get what we deserve.
What an omnishambles.

The Govt governs. Its ultimately down to them. An omnishambles. Well, its made us look 3rd rate cin virtually every aspect.

This is 3rd in a good series exploring the advice that SAGE have provided.
https://bylinetimes.com/2020/07/03/sage ... and-trace/

Having accurate and reliable testing results is an absolute necessity of understanding and combating this disease. The Govts failure here is plain. No excuses. They have badly failed in this area.

As far as the public response is concerned, i reckon the majority have shown great patience and tolerance. Lockdown was initially observed far better and longer than i thought it would, and most people display consideration for you while you are out and about. Idiots behaving thoughtlessly is not the norm; most people have behaved very sensibly in my experience.

The government were given the advice and refused to make a decision. Track and trace is pretty fucking sound advice, as events around the globe bear testament to. They dithered and tried to finesse the data to make a case for not implementing a testing regimen that might counter their bias towards opening up. Fuck them.

fivepointer wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

fivepointer wrote:The Govt make decisions. SAGE advise. The buck for the catalogue of errors and misjudgements that have been made stops fairly and squarely at the Govts door.
You can be dealt a bad hand and play it well. On the other hand, you can play a bad hand poorly.

This excellent report from Sky details the appalling ineptitude of those tasked with the testing arrangements- https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus- ... s-12022566

Decisions are based on the advice given. The decision will only be as good as the advice it’s based on. Interrogating that advice is also important, as Banquo has repeatedly said, hence my point that Starmer would’ve possibly made a better fist of this. Again, I’m not trying to say the politicians are blameless but to say they are wholly to blame is wholly wrong. If you are using the term ‘govt’ correctly to include PHE, Whitty etc then a) I apologise for being a condescending t**t and b) I couldn’t agree more.

As for the test data. If people are demanding immediate transparency from a new system in an unprecedented situation then there will be flaws in the system. Admittedly, this is beyond poor but it could never be a perfectly secure system and no doubt you’d complain if they weren’t releasing the figures. In fact, there’s been nothing but complaints and conspiracy theories since figures were stopped from being publicised when it was realised exactly how inaccurate they were. There was certainly plenty of people on here and twatter demanding daily updates. Sadly, you can’t have it both ways. If you are looking for any consolation, then it seems the ONS (not accountable for this) is light years ahead of most of their European counterparts.....perhaps a case of bald men fighting over a comb.

All that said, since Gove’s speech and Cummings’s promise of a ‘hard rain’ the IFG have released/written/recorded plenty of stuff on the machinery of govt. The only conclusion I can come to from all of this is that COVID has shone a light on numerous parts of the state and most have been found wanting. From the politicians, their advisers and through to the civil service. Given the IFG stuff, it seems this hasn’t really come as a surprise to those in the know. I suppose the fact that plenty who you’d assume wished Cummings had never been born have come out in agreement with his assessment of the civil service, if not his remedy to cure it, should’ve been the give away without the need for me to waste hours researching it.
It’s also shone a light on a nation/population that is unhealthy, seemingly unable to use their common sense yet, ironically, demanding ever more information and news - due to them being an expert on everything on account of the fact they have a social media profile - and stating there must be a conspiracy theory if they aren’t satiated. Even more ironically, even more so than rain on your wedding day, people on here have demanded SAGE minutes be released yet continue to state ‘facts’ that the minutes show to be incorrect. As Diggers oft states, we get what we deserve.
What an omnishambles.

The Govt governs. Its ultimately down to them. An omnishambles. Well, its made us look 3rd rate cin virtually every aspect.

This is 3rd in a good series exploring the advice that SAGE have provided.
https://bylinetimes.com/2020/07/03/sage ... and-trace/

Having accurate and reliable testing results is an absolute necessity of understanding and combating this disease. The Govts failure here is plain. No excuses. They have badly failed in this area.

As far as the public response is concerned, i reckon the majority have shown great patience and tolerance. Lockdown was initially observed far better and longer than i thought it would, and most people display consideration for you while you are out and about. Idiots behaving thoughtlessly is not the norm; most people have behaved very sensibly in my experience.

I’m still not sure what you mean by govt. if you mean the entire machine of govt then, as I said, I completely agree. If you just mean the politicians then, ultimately, you are correct but changing the politicians is just window dressing in a building suffering from subsidence and neglect.

I agree that accurate testing results is crucial. Not sure where is said it wasn’t but..... again, I’m not really sure what you’re saying unless you tell me how you define govt.

I’ll have a read of the link but given the headline embedded within it you seem to be cherry picking. There are plenty of instances where they’ve followed SAGE advice to the letter. There’s also a point where you have to take into account the damage to the economy as well as the health implications (not that the state of the economy is divorced from health implications, in the long term). There was also plenty of whining, from the usual suspects, about France etc coming out of lockdown before us when they’re test and trace is no better than ours. Dammed if you do and damned if you don’t.

The public were great when given a simple, short list of instructions. Ask them to use a bit of common and they moan.

Covid ?...bubonic plague (mongolia) ??..now floods of some proportion.
It's sandbag time in Wuhan/Hubei, and there's more to come as the surge moves east.

https://www.cgtn.com/special/Latest-upd ... China.html

Depressingly, my LinkedIn feed has a thread about an unnamed source at a major hospital in Surrey who disputes that there has been a pandemic at all. Apparently the source has been quieter than normal.

Followed by post after post about how it’s all a conspiracy etc. Equally worrying is that some of those posting look to have fairly responsible jobs.

With this level of stupidity heaven help us all.

Big spike in Herefordshire - 73 workers on a farm; all 200-odd workers now quarantined on site - mostly local furloughed workers.
I'd seen 56 positives there when I looked at the figures - and assumed someone had made a data input error, but no: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-h ... r-53381802

Two updates from one US state, baffling in a number of ways.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53382540

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53371336

Never been there so don't know if it's the land of make believe or not - scary numbers.