RugbyRebels

Well, everyone seems thrilled after the game?

We won. We looked interested in defending for most of the game. There were some very good individual performances.

Yet, I'm not dancing in the street after that. Too many errors with ball in hand and for all that possession, we struggled to score tries.

It's a step in the right direction, but plenty of work to do.

...and one of our props played the full eighty minutes.

I was confident we'd lose. We didn't.

We defended strongly and smartly most of the time. Our lineout and scrum went well against a team renowned for set-piece, and we even occasionally looked like we had some planned backs moves. We couldn't execute them properly, but at least we tried them.

It was still nowhere near good enough, and we were lucky to come up against a very lacklustre Argentina performance today. But we won the match, actually a little more comfortably than the score suggests, and that represents a massive leap forward from last week. A "massive leap forward" and we're "still nowhere near good enough"? - Yep, that's how bad we were last Saturday. Today, we were better than the other side, so all criticism should be tempered with that.

Planned moves are shit. We still can't dynamically exploit opportunities as they present themselves. The top 5 teams can.

Liam Williams looks a likely Lion, either at FB or wing.

Buggaluggs wrote:Planned moves are shit. We still can't dynamically exploit opportunities as they present themselves. The top 5 teams can.

As well as I though Moriarty played in general, I was cursing him for taking the ball into contact near the posts when there was a clear overlap out wide. Halfpenny and Liam Williams were screaming for the ball, but we had this mentality of crashing over and a bit of white line fever.

The All Blacks and Aussies would have scored at that point.

Think we have captured all the major positives,.we won..Liam Williams looked awesome . Tomas Francis played 80 minutes and looked ok. I would add AWJ looked very good and hardly any subs were used, I do prefer the continuity in tight matches I think a nod is due to Halfpenny who is starting to get back up to speed .Also it did look as if there was some heads up rugby happening. Finally , they seemed to all have arrived on the same bus in time for the match but if the first 20 minutes were a measure of it... they were still not sure if everyone had arrived..little coordinated play.. and we did not miss JR.

Yep agree our set moves looked poorly timed almost telegraphed, but the Argentina defence has handled attacks in SH games so no suprise they snuffed those ones out. North still looks ponderous at times but did tackle at least.

Most worrying for me is that the three other home countries have put in quality performances against southern hemisphere opposition and Wales... well have not.

Better than last week was about as enthusiastic as I can get... but at least they executed better at times and remembered to tackle.

It was interesting watching a game where apparently neither side had the individual skills to execute their teams' chosen game plans.

Sandydragon wrote:

Buggaluggs wrote:Planned moves are shit. We still can't dynamically exploit opportunities as they present themselves. The top 5 teams can.

As well as I though Moriarty played in general, I was cursing him for taking the ball into contact near the posts when there was a clear overlap out wide. Halfpenny and Liam Williams were screaming for the ball, but we had this mentality of crashing over and a bit of white line fever.

The All Blacks and Aussies would have scored at that point.

For me the responsibility for Moriarty taking the ball up lies with the half backs. There should be better communication between scrum half and the forward pack. The scrum half should be scanning the field on approach to the breakdown, choosing the best option and communicating it. As great an athlete as Gareth Davies is he's a poor organiser.
Wales benefit from the athleticism of Webb and Davies, in the breaks they make and the tries they score but I often wonder how they would benefit from a thinker at 9 such as Pienaar. The only problem is finding one.

ALunpg wrote:Think we have captured all the major positives,.we won..Liam Williams looked awesome . Tomas Francis played 80 minutes and looked ok. I would add AWJ looked very good and hardly any subs were used, I do prefer the continuity in tight matches I think a nod is due to Halfpenny who is starting to get back up to speed .Also it did look as if there was some heads up rugby happening. Finally , they seemed to all have arrived on the same bus in time for the match but if the first 20 minutes were a measure of it... they were still not sure if everyone had arrived..little coordinated play.. and we did not miss JR.

Yep agree our set moves looked poorly timed almost telegraphed, but the Argentina defence has handled attacks in SH games so no suprise they snuffed those ones out. North still looks ponderous at times but did tackle at least.

Most worrying for me is that the three other home countries have put in quality performances against southern hemisphere opposition and Wales... well have not.

Better than last week was about as enthusiastic as I can get... but at least they executed better at times and remembered to tackle.

I thought Francis looked gash. He played well in terms of the set piece but his work around the field is awful. There is no intensity to his play, he jogs around the field and uses his weight at the breakdown rather than injecting power behind his weight to clear people out or counter ruck.
I think it was Gethin's break yesterday where Francis could have sprinted to offer some support for the offload, but you could almost read his mind where he was thinking, if I keep at this pace I'll be arriving at the right time to secure the breakdown rather than let's give him an option to keep this play alive.
That said we haven't got many options at the moment but I'm hopeful Dillon Lewis, Nicky Thomas and Leon Brown may offer some competition that raises the standard of TH considerably.

The best thing was the result.

Defence was certainly better, albeit this was only Argentina not Australia. AWJ put in one hell of a shift and Warburton & Tips worked well together.
We didn't seem to miss Roberts. Having said that Scott Williams didn't seem particularly effective either, nor was Foxy. Maybe we should be looking at Ben John or Ashley Beck (again). Hope Owen Watkin recovers soon.

Offence was marginally better than last week, a little due to Liam Williams, but mostly due to the much better possession we had. What would Amos have made of such better possession? Maybe quite a lot - he was unlucky not to be involved this week (tough that he's going to be out of action for a while).

The truth is, we still have little idea what to do when we have the ball. Without better ideas from the coaches we need more creative individuals such as Sam Davies. Perhaps even replacing North with someone like Amos or Giles.

Elsewhere Scotland pushed Australia extremely close. Embarrassing for us.

Hope Sam Davies and Giles get a chance against Japan.

Also, we persist in kicking up high ball we only intermittently recover. Even with Biggar, Liam and 1/2p in the team, we have far too many players who are unwilling or unable to compete for high ball. We kick (up) too much.

cadofyddol wrote:

ALunpg wrote:Think we have captured all the major positives,.we won..Liam Williams looked awesome . Tomas Francis played 80 minutes and looked ok. I would add AWJ looked very good and hardly any subs were used, I do prefer the continuity in tight matches I think a nod is due to Halfpenny who is starting to get back up to speed .Also it did look as if there was some heads up rugby happening. Finally , they seemed to all have arrived on the same bus in time for the match but if the first 20 minutes were a measure of it... they were still not sure if everyone had arrived..little coordinated play.. and we did not miss JR.

Yep agree our set moves looked poorly timed almost telegraphed, but the Argentina defence has handled attacks in SH games so no suprise they snuffed those ones out. North still looks ponderous at times but did tackle at least.

Most worrying for me is that the three other home countries have put in quality performances against southern hemisphere opposition and Wales... well have not.

Better than last week was about as enthusiastic as I can get... but at least they executed better at times and remembered to tackle.

I thought Francis looked gash. He played well in terms of the set piece but his work around the field is awful. There is no intensity to his play, he jogs around the field and uses his weight at the breakdown rather than injecting power behind his weight to clear people out or counter ruck.
I think it was Gethin's break yesterday where Francis could have sprinted to offer some support for the offload, but you could almost read his mind where he was thinking, if I keep at this pace I'll be arriving at the right time to secure the breakdown rather than let's give him an option to keep this play alive.
That said we haven't got many options at the moment but I'm hopeful Dillon Lewis, Nicky Thomas and Leon Brown may offer some competition that raises the standard of TH considerably.

Right now as you have said ...he only offers the solid scrum and these player may offer a choice ..but right now they dont..
So imho his performance was ok not great but ok .

Happy with the win. Not happy with the performance.

We look clueless with the ball in hand.

We have a real issue at 10/12 and for me we need to get that sorted,

BIggar did make a good break in the second half but Im still not convinced hes what we need to move on , and Im not convinced by Williams either - whether thats a different 10 to start with - Anscombe/Davies or a different 10/12 completely Im not sure (im still pro Patchell at 12 - unfortunately Howley only sees him as a 15 ).

Props did OK, Smith is looking like the future but Id still have Gethin around. Francis did ok - but there are 3s with more potential out there - Lewis for example. Never thought Id say this but I also think Baldwin is playing better than Owen at the minute, Id swap them for Japan. The second row was effective. Back Row balance still not there, Lydiates style is no good for what we need, Id like to see King given a run at 6 for Japan - with either Tipuric or Warburton at 7.

We didnt miss our defensive rocks - Roberts or Lydiate - Id keep Roberts off the bennch for Japan too

Still looking for that spark.

ALunpg wrote:

cadofyddol wrote:

ALunpg wrote:Think we have captured all the major positives,.we won..Liam Williams looked awesome . Tomas Francis played 80 minutes and looked ok. I would add AWJ looked very good and hardly any subs were used, I do prefer the continuity in tight matches I think a nod is due to Halfpenny who is starting to get back up to speed .Also it did look as if there was some heads up rugby happening. Finally , they seemed to all have arrived on the same bus in time for the match but if the first 20 minutes were a measure of it... they were still not sure if everyone had arrived..little coordinated play.. and we did not miss JR.

Yep agree our set moves looked poorly timed almost telegraphed, but the Argentina defence has handled attacks in SH games so no suprise they snuffed those ones out. North still looks ponderous at times but did tackle at least.

Most worrying for me is that the three other home countries have put in quality performances against southern hemisphere opposition and Wales... well have not.

Better than last week was about as enthusiastic as I can get... but at least they executed better at times and remembered to tackle.

I thought Francis looked gash. He played well in terms of the set piece but his work around the field is awful. There is no intensity to his play, he jogs around the field and uses his weight at the breakdown rather than injecting power behind his weight to clear people out or counter ruck.
I think it was Gethin's break yesterday where Francis could have sprinted to offer some support for the offload, but you could almost read his mind where he was thinking, if I keep at this pace I'll be arriving at the right time to secure the breakdown rather than let's give him an option to keep this play alive.
That said we haven't got many options at the moment but I'm hopeful Dillon Lewis, Nicky Thomas and Leon Brown may offer some competition that raises the standard of TH considerably.

Right now as you have said ...he only offers the solid scrum and these player may offer a choice ..but right now they dont..
So imho his performance was ok not great but ok .

I guess it depends on what you use to measure his performance. If you look in the context of what Wales have available then as you say he was a positive. If you look at what you would like out of a player then I think he was poor.

cadofyddol wrote: I guess it depends on what you use to measure his performance. If you look in the context of what Wales have available then as you say he was a positive. If you look at what you would like out of a player then I think he was poor.

I agree as a Welsh supporter I want our players to.perform to the highest standards at their chosen position..but sadly there are some that have not got there ...at present tight head prop is one where we have good set piece players but not yet as effective in loose play.

Once we get someone who is...then it will be great..until then I think its the Welsh coaches job to get that extra 10 % just not sure that it is available...but I am always willing to be proven totally wrong.