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Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:04 pm
by J Dory
morepork wrote:There has been progress in terms of riparian fencing and planting. The effects of this will take some time to manifest, and I think what I am trying to reinforce is that the pace of land conversions is much faster than the ecosystem can deal with and there very much is a tipping point. This has to be made clear and fuck PR and shareholders. The reason that there isn't a lot in the way of current up to date data is twofold: firstly, longitudinal data is much much more powerful than an individual snapshot. That's what makes NIWAS 20-year plus monitoring program so vital for hard data. The second reason is that the Government has clamped down on scientific dissent. That is no conspiracy theory, that is withholding resources for proper environmental monitoring. If they capitulated to the dairy lobby we would lose the one data set that we have that approached anything resembling objective. Then we really would be up shit creek without a paddle.
Yeah the 2009 study Cas linked was supposed to be a baseline for subsequent studies for the 16 or so catchments monitored. Either the subsequent monitoring didn't take place, or the data has been tucked away somewhere so it's not easily found. Reminds me of our ex Prime Minister here in Canada, the right horrible Stephen Fuckface Harper. His suppression of science in the name of business was trailblazing.
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:21 pm
by Spy
Good science MP. Sounds from that NIWA link that the best and easiest solutions are the most obvious: fencing off and planting up waterways. What's holding this back?
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:45 pm
by J Dory
Spy wrote:Good science MP. Sounds from that NIWA link that the best and easiest solutions are the most obvious: fencing off and planting up waterways. What's holding this back?
I don't think it is being held back, on dairy farms at least. Culvits and bridges for crossings, fencing of waterways, it's been going full bore ahead driven primarily by Fonterra but also by council regulation. It doesn't address the issue of nitrogen and phosphates leaching into groundwater and waterways and I don't know if there is a similar initiative on non-dairy farms.
Cas mentioned fines in environment court, my guess would be they are for effluent spills into waterways. I'm not sure how often that occurs, but punishment needs to be significant enough to act as a deterrent.
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:56 pm
by morepork
It's culvert you mutant.
There has been a lack of a comprehensive management strategy for the rapid intensification of the last 15-20 years. Piss and shit as well as superphosphate, sucking the life out of the water table are all putting a massive strain on the system. Farmers enter into a cooperative, borrow up to the tits to set up, and are constantly on the brink of insolvency depending on the price of a crude raw product. The government has steamrolled environmental regulations meaning we are now having to triage. Fences and planting are excellent, but there needs to be so much more. Bear in mind that industry lobby groups bankrolled by corporate dollars know that is costs less in the short term to contribute financially to a ruling political party under a promise of deregulation and make flash bullshit adds to keep data from the public mind than it is to invest in a controlled environmentally compliant practice.
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:31 pm
by morepork
Bloody townies. This is what happens to dialogue in the absence of hard data. The criticism extends both ways, by the way, but the darts aimed at Mike Joy are particularly depressing from an empirical point of view. Mr. Emmerson unfortunately elects to ignore the common ground in the fecal Venn diagram, namely, that one has to have the means to accommodate the shyte and pish that comes with rapidly expanding populations in order for the existing infrastructure to be sustainable. Fuck off with the criticism of payment for the initiative as well. Fonterra, if you want to monopolise farming, to force farmers to be part of your cult, and be afforded the luxury of influencing legislation, then stump up for the privilege and help them out you ballbags.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/ ... d=11810906
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:29 pm
by J Dory
Does Alan Emerson work for Fonterra?
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:22 pm
by morepork
J Dory wrote:Does Alan Emerson work for Fonterra?
Dunno man.
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:56 pm
by J Dory
morepork wrote:J Dory wrote:Does Alan Emerson work for Fonterra?
Dunno man.
OK, I was struggling to follow how you went from:
"Fuck off with the criticism of payment for the initiative as well."
To:
"Fonterra, if you want to monopolise farming, to force farmers to be part of your cult, and be afforded the luxury of influencing legislation, then stump up for the privilege and help them out you ballbags."
I guess the two statements weren't directly linked.
I think what we can all agree that this article proves once and for all is, townies are full of shit.
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:11 pm
by morepork
Point being don't deflect responsibility for sustainability to share milkers and working family farms.
Get some Uncle Dad.
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:38 am
by Doorzetbornandbred
Blame cow cockies for it all, nothing wrong with beef and sheep farmers. Better bloody people for a start before we go into the whole pollution argument.
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:43 pm
by J Dory
morepork wrote:Point being don't deflect responsibility for sustainability to share milkers and working family farms.
Get some Uncle Dad.
Share milkers typically aren't responsible for costs associated with farm maintenance/improvement, e.g. fencing. That falls to the land owner side of the contract. But I agree, Fonterra putting some cash into the game wouldn't hurt. Given the farmers are the shareholders is the result same in that ultimately it comes out of the farmers pocket? Not sure exactly how that works to be honest.
Had to look up Uncle Dad, too obtuse for me bro.
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:59 pm
by morepork
Ha Ha. Look at the cow cocky.
Let's just say, it is not the management that gets reamed when a ridiculously deregulated speculative financial model based entirely on a single raw product is at the mercy of international markets.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/ ... after-cuts
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:30 pm
by J Dory
I get it dude.
Fonterra-is-evil-o-meter:
baby jebus ==============[=]== darth vader
And by association all dairy farmers. I can relate to Mr. Emmerson's defensiveness. It's equally unhelpful for him to be pointing out your jobbies in the Avon, but that's where this argument seems to have ended up. Good versus evil.
P.S. Wasn't quite sure what your cow cocky taunt was intended to convey.
P.P.S. Your jobbies are in the Avon.
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:37 pm
by morepork
J Dory wrote:I get it dude.
Fonterra-is-evil-o-meter:
baby jebus ==============[=]== darth vader
And by association all dairy farmers. I can relate to Mr. Emmerson's defensiveness. It's equally unhelpful for him to be pointing out your jobbies in the Avon, but that's where this argument seems to have ended up. Good versus evil.
P.S. Wasn't quite sure what your cow cocky taunt was intended to convey.
P.P.S. Your jobbies are in the Avon.
No it hasn't. It's facts versus a marketing campaign.
Cow cocky was in response to Doorz comment.
In a few weeks my jobbies will be buried deep on various west coast beaches and alpine forests. Anyone I catch releasing jobbies in the water will feel the cold steel of mine shyte-stained shovel.
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:06 am
by J Dory
Nice. Enjoy.
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:57 pm
by Doorzetbornandbred
Isnt it Golden Shears weekend?
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:26 pm
by morepork
Yep it is/was.
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:06 pm
by morepork
I think a frank assessment of infrastructure may be needed in the face of this relentless increase in tourism.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=11817732
Fucking savages. Some rest stops on roads to nice places are absolutely littered with turds and toilet paper. This really pisses me off.
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:27 am
by Doorzetbornandbred
morepork wrote:I think a frank assessment of infrastructure may be needed in the face of this relentless increase in tourism.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=11817732
Fucking savages. Some rest stops on roads to nice places are absolutely littered with turds and toilet paper. This really pisses me off.
Bring back the long drops
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:44 am
by morepork
Doorzetbornandbred wrote:morepork wrote:I think a frank assessment of infrastructure may be needed in the face of this relentless increase in tourism.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=11817732
Fucking savages. Some rest stops on roads to nice places are absolutely littered with turds and toilet paper. This really pisses me off.
Bring back the long drops
They need them at rest stops man. It's pure filth.
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:26 pm
by morepork
Radio NZ doing a series on this over the week. Check out what has been done to the McKenzie basin....battle looming with the government and RMA savaging.
Re: Poo in the creek.
Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:05 pm
by J Dory