RugbyRebels

Ok,..but he's on the long list.

Scrumhead wrote:Clifford has played 7 for England. Most recently against Wales in the last 6 Nations. He was anonymous. I don't think Eddie's going to be going in that particular direction again ...

I can't really recall that game or that performance, which perhaps says a lot in itself, but was it any less spectacular than the average performance from (60 caps or so of) the Haskatron? I wish Clifford had got a run in one position at some point but it seems he's had his chances in dribs and drabs and now they're gone.

Mikey Brown wrote: but it seems he's had his chances in dribs and drabs and now they're gone.

Weren't you in a similar position...?. some years ago.

Scrumhead wrote:Clifford has played 7 for England. Most recently against Wales in the last 6 Nations. He was anonymous. I don't think Eddie's going to be going in that particular direction again ...

I'd disagree with anonymous.

I'd agree Jones doesn't look like he'll be going back in that direct action and probably rightly so. He's just not breakdown savvy enough to make it work.


edit: To compare with Hask, it was as busy in defence and a lot smarter in attack (when he actually saw the ball), but lacked the physicality. So... yeah, I'd probably rather have prime Hask.

OK - perhaps anonymous was harsh. I am big fan of Clifford, but it was a 6/10 performance at best. That game was a huge chance for him to show what he could do and he didn't do anything to suggest he should be considered a leading candidate to replace Haskell.

Personally I think Clifford is best at 8, but his chances of getting past Billy and Hughes are very slim and even if both were injured (heaven forbid), I'm not 100% sure he'd be next in line.

After Luke Wallace's injury, he'll probably end up playing 7 quite a bit for Quins when James Chisholm is fit to play at 8. If that happens and he's playing well, who knows, but right now, I don't see him as a realistic contender for the 7 shirt for England.

Peat wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Clifford has played 7 for England. Most recently against Wales in the last 6 Nations. He was anonymous. I don't think Eddie's going to be going in that particular direction again ...

I'd disagree with anonymous.

I'd agree Jones doesn't look like he'll be going back in that direct action and probably rightly so. He's just not breakdown savvy enough to make it work.


edit: To compare with Hask, it was as busy in defence and a lot smarter in attack (when he actually saw the ball), but lacked the physicality. So... yeah, I'd probably rather have prime Hask.

http://en.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/match/255011.html 1 pass and 2 carries in 48 minutes, making 2 meters and being turned over once.

If you assume that Billy V and Hughes we have some really good options at 8, I think it's just about balance isn't it? We'd all love a Pocock or a Hooper but they're not there. We do have players who have other attributes though. I'd have thought that we can get some really good future options as a 6 and 7 combo, depending on the specifics that we're after, from any of:

Underhill
Currys
Sam Jones
Ludlum - I've been drawn back in...
Chisholm
Ellis

With some slightly longer shots but feasibly:
Evans
Nott
Clifford - would be in the top list but I think he's likely to be a better 8 and injuries are an issue
Etc

Am sure there are loads I've missed but we're finally seeing a good crop of back row players coming through

Definitely. Lots of reasons to be optimistic. You can add Ben Earl and Jack Willis to that list too.

Earl is probably a season or two off breaking through at Sarries, but as Isiekwe has shown, it can be done when a young player is showing enough potential.

Jack Willis is already getting in to Wasps' match day squads.

Also good to think we have quality 8s coming through in Simmonds and Mercer.

Not sure about Ludlam, he looked a little podgy last time out, maybe Saints are in the process of bulking up another player as Mallinder develops the shock tactic of going over the top in a move that's bound to catch out the Hun , if he is simply bulking up he'll hopefully looked trim down in a few weeks/as the season progresses

I've only seen the highlights so I can't say I saw it with my own eyes, but by all accounts Ludlam was one of the few Saints players that stood-up to Sarries. His try was well taken too.

Standing out for Saints isn't the standard for England

Perhaps not, but let's give the guy a chance though ... he's not going to face too many better than a rampant Sarries pack.

Mercer looks an 8 all day long id but you never kno

Chick could work as a 6 I'd have thought? Not seen too much of him mind

shame Saints are signing Brussow, guess he could have till then to make a big impact.

would put Evans ahead of him still.


Long term i think Sale have the best 6 and 7 prospect in Nott and Curry (Either one).

TheNomad wrote:If you assume that Billy V and Hughes we have some really good options at 8, I think it's just about balance isn't it? We'd all love a Pocock or a Hooper but they're not there. We do have players who have other attributes though. I'd have thought that we can get some really good future options as a 6 and 7 combo, depending on the specifics that we're after, from any of:

Underhill
Currys
Sam Jones
Ludlum - I've been drawn back in...
Chisholm
Ellis

With some slightly longer shots but feasibly:
Evans
Nott
Clifford - would be in the top list but I think he's likely to be a better 8 and injuries are an issue
Etc

Am sure there are loads I've missed but we're finally seeing a good crop of back row players coming through

Hugo?

Puja

Who is Hugo?

Puja wrote:

TheNomad wrote: Ellis

Hugo?

Tom

Which Tyler wrote:

Puja wrote:

TheNomad wrote: Ellis

Hugo?

Tom

Ah, right. That makes sense. Had a mental blank.

Scrumhead wrote:Who is Hugo?

Future England Captain c2008 Hugo Ellis - The great white hope of the English game: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... prize.html

Puja

Puja wrote:

TheNomad wrote:If you assume that Billy V and Hughes we have some really good options at 8, I think it's just about balance isn't it? We'd all love a Pocock or a Hooper but they're not there. We do have players who have other attributes though. I'd have thought that we can get some really good future options as a 6 and 7 combo, depending on the specifics that we're after, from any of:

Underhill
Currys
Sam Jones
Ludlum - I've been drawn back in...
Chisholm
Ellis

With some slightly longer shots but feasibly:
Evans
Nott
Clifford - would be in the top list but I think he's likely to be a better 8 and injuries are an issue
Etc

Am sure there are loads I've missed but we're finally seeing a good crop of back row players coming through

Hugo?

Puja

No. You go.

Digby wrote:Standing out for Saints isn't the standard for England

well you have to start somewhere, nicht wahr??

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:Standing out for Saints isn't the standard for England

well you have to start somewhere, nicht wahr??

1000 miles less a step to go then

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:Standing out for Saints isn't the standard for England

well you have to start somewhere, nicht wahr??

1000 miles less a step to go then

Indeed, but that step is summat....he wasn't even starting last year.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: well you have to start somewhere, nicht wahr??

1000 miles less a step to go then

Indeed, but that step is summat....he wasn't even starting last year.

Which was odd when Saints didn't remotely look like winning anything and were at no threat of going down. Hopefully he keeps playing, a perhaps forlorn hope if Brussow and Shields join

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
1000 miles less a step to go then

Indeed, but that step is summat....he wasn't even starting last year.

Which was odd when Saints didn't remotely look like winning anything and were at no threat of going down. Hopefully he keeps playing, a perhaps forlorn hope if Brussow and Shields join

Its a shame that Mallinder hasn't developed as a coach

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: Indeed, but that step is summat....he wasn't even starting last year.

Which was odd when Saints didn't remotely look like winning anything and were at no threat of going down. Hopefully he keeps playing, a perhaps forlorn hope if Brussow and Shields join

Its a shame that Mallinder hasn't developed as a coach

It's even a shame he doesn't seem to have even tried to develop. There re are of course plenty of good things happening at Saints, just on balance not enough,their game hasn't progressed enough, nor taken account of what they could be doing with the assets they have. He's England's version of Gatland, he's got a plan that can work with the right players even if a little limited, and sticks to it no matter whether it's working