RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote: I think our kick chase has actually improved, though still not to the Irish chess grandmaster status; it was the length and type of kick that was the issue a fair few times, and it was clearly a deliberate exit tactic especially- and imo, one that better sides than Italy would crucify us with. Ford needs to tell Eddie he's not doing it any more, unless he was calling it, in which case, tell himself.

Maybe testing a new, young, small FB had merit early on but what's the point if he fields well? If regaining possession from mistakes doesn't happen kicks have to find grass, touch or a team-mate, surely?

Not necessarily- the tactic is designed to gain territory as well....assuming you can then contain/turnover the oppos. I think its iffy, but suspect the stats bear it out as a percentage play.

But, to gain territory, the opposition has to make a mistake or not kick as well as us (unless they just blindly run it back). Against Wales, Halfpenny rarely makes mistakes fielding a long punt and he kicks from hand further and more accurately than any of our kickers (without Daly and Slade in the team, anyway).

Can Eddie really be thinking of starting Wigglesworth just for his kicking? I think Gareth Davies might eat him for tea. Ugh!

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
Maybe testing a new, young, small FB had merit early on but what's the point if he fields well? If regaining possession from mistakes doesn't happen kicks have to find grass, touch or a team-mate, surely?

Not necessarily- the tactic is designed to gain territory as well....assuming you can then contain/turnover the oppos. I think its iffy, but suspect the stats bear it out as a percentage play.

But, to gain territory, the opposition has to make a mistake or not kick as well as us (]!

Exactly, that's the plan, as bolded. Misguided, as I said.

Wiggy added to squad. LCD and Hughes too. Graham and Dunn omitted.

Full backs

Mike Brown (Harlequins), Nathan Earle (Saracens), Harry Mallinder (Northampton Saints), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)

Inside backs

Danny Care (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)

Forwards

Back five

*James Haskell (Wasps), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby)

Front row

Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs), *Joe Marler (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs)

*unavailable for selection

Ah well - I think we were all resigned to that; definitely a chance mised though.
Good to see LCD being included again; but a bit of a pity Dunn had to be ejected - though it makes perfect sense, no point having 2 spares for the same position, and he should have learned a lot over the last month. Now that Tommy Taylor is back playing for Wasps, with a bit of luck, Hartley won't make the SA tour? Nah - let's keep an eye on realism.
No point keeping Graham around, especially if Hughes is fit again - which solves a lot of issues. Robshaw, Simmonds, Hughes with Mercer (or more llikely, Underhill) on the bench - much better look to it.

Diggers wins the bet, unfortunately.

Wonder if he will have a punt on Robshaw, Simmonds, Hughes.....

Can Scotland call up Graham?

I've seldom been less happy at being right, even odder when I'm seldom right, and on here there's basically Rowan and Mells getting it wrong more often

No surprise with the Wiggy call up. Going for the experienced hand is understandable, but does his current form justify his selection?
From what i've seen his form is only so-so with Spencer looking sharper when he's been playing.
Very disappointing really that we've had to take a backward step in selection.

Which Tyler wrote:Robshaw, Simmonds, Hughes with Mercer (or more llikely, Underhill) on the bench - much better look to it.

See, I would take that in a heartbeat and it would make me very happy indeed, which suggests to me that we're much more likely to see Lawes, Robshaw, Hughes, with Simmonds on the bench to overjoy the Welsh and break my heart.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:Robshaw, Simmonds, Hughes with Mercer (or more llikely, Underhill) on the bench - much better look to it.

See, I would take that in a heartbeat and it would make me very happy indeed, which suggests to me that we're much more likely to see Lawes, Robshaw, Hughes, with Simmonds on the bench to overjoy the Welsh and break my heart.

Puja

Don’t even joke about that

Hughes isn't fit yet i believe, in for assessment to see if he can play a part. Probably get a game or two for wasps if he's going to make it.

Scrumhead wrote:

Puja wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:Robshaw, Simmonds, Hughes with Mercer (or more llikely, Underhill) on the bench - much better look to it.

See, I would take that in a heartbeat and it would make me very happy indeed, which suggests to me that we're much more likely to see Lawes, Robshaw, Hughes, with Simmonds on the bench to overjoy the Welsh and break my heart.

Puja

Don’t even joke about that

Who's joking? I'm Cassandra, morosely predicting the terrible doom to come.

In other news, Wigglesworth will start and Te'o will never be dropped again.

Puja

Will Hughes really be fit enough for the 23 having not played since December? I'd be surprised if we see any backrow changes other than, possibly, the bench.

Not for Wales unless it's bench.

He was running last week with a weight dragging behind him and it was a leg injury so suggests he's getting close to being healthy. Giving him 2weeks with wasps if he's ready to go and bringing him in after that seems to make sense.

Like Te'o wasn't picked until he had a couple of weeks of domestic action under his belt?

Puja

Simmonds performance yesterday is a million miles better than anything I have seen from Hughes in an England jersey.

I appreciate it was ‘only Italy’ but 2 tries, 23 tackles and 13 carries (for 75m) underlines that there was a lot more work than just the flashy, ball-in-hand bits.

Frankly would be criminal if he was dropped for Hughes after that performance.

Scrumhead wrote:Simmonds performance yesterday is a million miles better than anything I have seen from Hughes in an England jersey.

I appreciate it was ‘only Italy’ but 2 tries, 23 tackles and 13 carries (for 75m) underlines that there was a lot more work than just the flashy, ball-in-hand bits.

Frankly would be criminal if he was dropped for Hughes after that performance.

Can't drop him after that, defensive workrate, carrying and serious threat.

Ford and Farrell are telepathic apparently.

There's no way Wales can train to play against that.

francoisfou wrote:

Rich wrote:I suppose Eddie will go with the same team against Wales as started against Italy with the exception that Care will replace the injured Youngs.

I think the Welsh back row will get the better of our make-shift back row though - I'd much rather see three back row players in the back row, so bring in Underhill and move Robshaw to blindside.

Who will Eddie bring in as back up scrum half now that, finally, he has to make a decision ?

Whoever it is, might this be one position that doesn't see a "finisher" used ?

Agreed.
Lawes - fine player though he is, could be on the bench against Wales instead of Kruis, with Underhill coming into the back row.
Dare I think that Armand could be called to the bench for Kruis?

If I was a manager then I'd treat Launch like Neil Back. Everyone moves over so they can play.

Tom Moore wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Simmonds performance yesterday is a million miles better than anything I have seen from Hughes in an England jersey.

I appreciate it was ‘only Italy’ but 2 tries, 23 tackles and 13 carries (for 75m) underlines that there was a lot more work than just the flashy, ball-in-hand bits.

Frankly would be criminal if he was dropped for Hughes after that performance.

Can't drop him after that, defensive workrate, carrying and serious threat.

We are in danger of over-hyping Simmonds. He is still well worth his place alongside two experienced colleagues and he could be a solution at 7. Should Hughes be ready to play at some point in the 6N we could see that tried, probably as a bench change.

Oakboy wrote:

Tom Moore wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Simmonds performance yesterday is a million miles better than anything I have seen from Hughes in an England jersey.

I appreciate it was ‘only Italy’ but 2 tries, 23 tackles and 13 carries (for 75m) underlines that there was a lot more work than just the flashy, ball-in-hand bits.

Frankly would be criminal if he was dropped for Hughes after that performance.

Can't drop him after that, defensive workrate, carrying and serious threat.

We are in danger of over-hyping Simmonds. He is still well worth his place alongside two experienced colleagues and he could be a solution at 7. Should Hughes be ready to play at some point in the 6N we could see that tried, probably as a bench change.

Why not indeed! If Hughes plays a part on Saturday, Simmonds could easily play 7.

High tackle count, good pace, good link man... sounds like a 7 to me (shame about the over opposition ball stuff, but England don't bother with that in general for the most part).

What we don't know about Simmonds and playing 7 is how good he is over the ball not getting counter rucked, and that's the main thing for Eddie when picking a 7. England consistently put just the 1 man in to secure our own ball so we can have our attack with lots of width, and that's a big ask for a smaller backrower to protect that crucial phase 2 ball. It's one of the main areas that's been held against Kvesic, and looking at Kvesic he certainly appears to weigh more than Simmonds, and whilst Simmonds has great acceleration that isn't the most useful when you're stationary over the ball simply trying not to get knocked back.

Still, Hartley didn't survive a one man clearout and injured Youngs in the process the bag of lard, so maybe Eddie will let players off now for not being strong over the ball, or maybe not. Had Youngs not gotten injured I tend to think there would have been more commentary on Hartley getting cleared out so easily and putting the England attack on the back foot, the injury seemed to rather hide his ineptitude

Digby wrote:What we don't know about Simmonds and playing 7 is how good he is over the ball not getting counter rucked, and that's the main thing for Eddie when picking a 7. England consistently put just the 1 man in to secure our own ball so we can have our attack with lots of width, and that's a big ask for a smaller backrower to protect that crucial phase 2 ball. It's one of the main areas that's been held against Kvesic, and looking at Kvesic he certainly appears to weigh more than Simmonds, and whilst Simmonds has great acceleration that isn't the most useful when you're stationary over the ball simply trying not to get knocked back.

Still, Hartley didn't survive a one man clearout and injured Youngs in the process the bag of lard, so maybe Eddie will let players off now for not being strong over the ball, or maybe not. Had Youngs not gotten injured I tend to think there would have been more commentary on Hartley getting cleared out so easily and putting the England attack on the back foot, the injury seemed to rather hide his ineptitude

I feel like a strong lower body and low centre of gravity are big positives for ruck work. And Simmonds has that for sure. It would require a different balance, though, but that's good, if we have options.

Digby wrote:What we don't know about Simmonds and playing 7 is how good he is over the ball not getting counter rucked, and that's the main thing for Eddie when picking a 7. England consistently put just the 1 man in to secure our own ball so we can have our attack with lots of width, and that's a big ask for a smaller backrower to protect that crucial phase 2 ball. It's one of the main areas that's been held against Kvesic, and looking at Kvesic he certainly appears to weigh more than Simmonds, and whilst Simmonds has great acceleration that isn't the most useful when you're stationary over the ball simply trying not to get knocked back.

Still, Hartley didn't survive a one man clearout and injured Youngs in the process the bag of lard, so maybe Eddie will let players off now for not being strong over the ball, or maybe not. Had Youngs not gotten injured I tend to think there would have been more commentary on Hartley getting cleared out so easily and putting the England attack on the back foot, the injury seemed to rather hide his ineptitude

Diggers, did you notice how good Hartley's lineout throwing was? George buggered up his first one, didn't he? It's the sort of detail that keeps him on the bench - annoyingly!