RugbyRebels

Stephen Jones:
8 - Haskell
7 - Daly, Farrell, Itoje, Kruis, May
6 - Watson, Wigglesworth, Mako, Sinckler
5 - Joseph, Te'o, Hartley, Robshaw, Simmonds

Farrell - 'You can imagine his feelings as he was faced with superior opposition and rather chaotic scenes around him'
Itoje - 'Another man to give it everything, and cannot be held responsible when he has given so much to the cause'
Haskell - 'England's outstanding player. Some of the old red rose pride was under the red helmet, and he was good for waning morale'

Mellsblue wrote:Stephen Jones:
8 - Haskell
7 - Daly, Farrell, Itoje, Kruis, May
6 - Watson, Wigglesworth, Mako, Sinckler
5 - Joseph, Te'o, Hartley, Robshaw, Simmonds

Farrell - 'You can imagine his feelings as he was faced with superior opposition and rather chaotic scenes around him'
Itoje - 'Another man to give it everything, and cannot be held responsible when he has given so much to the cause'
Haskell - 'England's outstanding player. Some of the old red rose pride was under the red helmet, and he was good for waning morale'

The problem is that people read this and agree...I can't talk to my dad about rugby anymore, as he just thinks the sun shines out of Farrell's arse and Ford is a clearly inferior player...

Stom wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Stephen Jones:
8 - Haskell
7 - Daly, Farrell, Itoje, Kruis, May
6 - Watson, Wigglesworth, Mako, Sinckler
5 - Joseph, Te'o, Hartley, Robshaw, Simmonds

Farrell - 'You can imagine his feelings as he was faced with superior opposition and rather chaotic scenes around him'
Itoje - 'Another man to give it everything, and cannot be held responsible when he has given so much to the cause'
Haskell - 'England's outstanding player. Some of the old red rose pride was under the red helmet, and he was good for waning morale'

The problem is that people read this and agree...I can't talk to my dad about rugby anymore, as he just thinks the sun shines out of Farrell's arse and Ford is a clearly inferior player...

Oh god. How annoying is it watching a game with people who watch the SN each year and that's it?



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bitts wrote:Oh god. How annoying is it watching a game with people who watch the SN each year and that's it?

Horrendously frustrating.
I've watched the odd match with my brother, who coaches his kids, and am shocked by some of his opinions; at least my parents generally keep schtum whilst watching

Mellsblue wrote:Stephen Jones:
8 - Haskell
7 - Daly, Farrell, Itoje, Kruis, May
6 - Watson, Wigglesworth, Mako, Sinckler
5 - Joseph, Te'o, Hartley, Robshaw, Simmonds

Farrell - 'You can imagine his feelings as he was faced with superior opposition and rather chaotic scenes around him'
Itoje - 'Another man to give it everything, and cannot be held responsible when he has given so much to the cause'
Haskell - 'England's outstanding player. Some of the old red rose pride was under the red helmet, and he was good for waning morale'

Thats brilliant. I mean poor Owen, being put in that position with so much chaos! The poor guy must have been going through such turmoil.

fivepointer wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Stephen Jones:
8 - Haskell
7 - Daly, Farrell, Itoje, Kruis, May
6 - Watson, Wigglesworth, Mako, Sinckler
5 - Joseph, Te'o, Hartley, Robshaw, Simmonds

Farrell - 'You can imagine his feelings as he was faced with superior opposition and rather chaotic scenes around him'
Itoje - 'Another man to give it everything, and cannot be held responsible when he has given so much to the cause'
Haskell - 'England's outstanding player. Some of the old red rose pride was under the red helmet, and he was good for waning morale'

Thats brilliant. I mean poor Owen, being put in that position with so much chaos! The poor guy must have been going through such turmoil.

I know, bless him. Tbh, I'd hope he'd be thinking 'I'm vice captain, I really should be doing something to sort the chaos'.

Fark me. Jones's alternative awards:
'Same, no matter what.
Owen Farrell. Composed and consistent and dignified. England's finest.'

Mellsblue wrote:Fark me. Jones's alternative awards:
'Same, no matter what.
Owen Farrell. Composed and consistent and dignified. England's finest.'

dig-ni-fucking-fied. Comp-fucking-osed. FFS

Well he was as about as composed as any headless chicken would be.......

Just spotted - 'Kruis 7- should be an automatic choice' wtf

Just finished watching it again.....Farrell does work his nuts off. Win or lose, good or bad, he does graft.
England just look deflated without the creativity of Ford, Launch.....even Brown and Care. It was a bloody odd selection.

Graft, just what you want from your 10.

Watching England and Scotland be mostly shit these last two weeks I am just completely overwhelmed by the praise for the two chippy, under-skilled, goal-kicking vice captains.

Both Laidlaw and Farrell appear to playing an entirely different game plan to the other 22 players on the pitch. Undoubtedly trying hard, undoubtedly making a lot of noise and achieving some very good things through sheer will, but simply not making the team around them tick, whilst being lauded for exactly that.

I get that the Laidlaw comparison may be of zero interest to any of you, but maybe gives some perspective of what an outsider sees? I don’t know, but I often see Laidlaw praised by fans of other nations for his quality and leadership. He can be a massive hinderance to the team for 90% of a game, but he nailed his kicks at the end and was once again the hero.

Perhaps that just shows the glossing-over effect that Farrell’s kicking has had on this England team when he’s been slotting them?

The obvious whole in my theory is that Farrell gets rated highly regardless of whether he saves the day with his kicking. My real question is why people are so attracted to these characters? I guess as a coach, any player willing to really take responsibility on the field is a blessing, but it so often seems to come at the cost of actual quality in playing the game.

Jesus that was a waffley post. I’m sure I had a good point buried somewhere in there.

Mellsblue wrote:Graft, just what you want from your 10.

You did yesterday. He was tidying up a lot of sh*t ball. Yesterday was an error in coaching,...don't think you can blame Farrell.

kk67 wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Graft, just what you want from your 10.

You did yesterday. He was tidying up a lot of sh*t ball. Yesterday was an error in coaching,...don't think you can blame Farrell.

So, no blame for the silly pen in the Irish 22 that ultimately lead to a try. No blame for kicking the ball in to a teammate’s head. Those are just the obvious examples from the very start of the match and there were more....passing to the touchline towards the end of the second half being another. No blame on a senior player and vice captain for a team that fails to learn its lessons? That’s all fine, is it? He was ten and vice captain and, allegedly, one of our few world class players, he needs to do more than just graft.

Mellsblue wrote:

kk67 wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Graft, just what you want from your 10.

You did yesterday. He was tidying up a lot of sh*t ball. Yesterday was an error in coaching,...don't think you can blame Farrell.

So, no blame for the silly pen in the Irish 22 that ultimately lead to a try. No blame for kicking the ball in to a teammate’s head. Those are just the obvious examples from the very start of the match and there were more....passing to the touchline towards the end of the second half being another. No blame on a senior player and vice captain for a team that fails to learn its lessons? That’s all fine, is it? He was ten and vice captain and, allegedly, one of our few world class players, he needs to do more than just graft.

Yeah. I'm not saying he played well.
In fact I think England were rather unfortunate in as much as Gardener obviously doesn't like unnecessary niggle. He has this Ozzie manner of smiling and asking you not to be a dickhead that I think took England rather by surprise.
And yet it was Peter who coped a card.

Someone kept shouting 'no discipline'. BOD thought it was Hartley but I thought it was an Irishman.

Mikey Brown wrote: My real question is why people are so attracted to these characters? I guess as a coach, any player willing to really take responsibility on the field is a blessing, but it so often seems to come at the cost of actual quality in playing the game.

In a similar vein, I was trying to understand Eddie's selection and found myself wondering about England's almost traditional reluctance to select creative players. England's pack yesterday never looked like they were about to make something interesting happen and similarly without Ford in the channel the backs looked rudderless.

kk67 wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote: My real question is why people are so attracted to these characters? I guess as a coach, any player willing to really take responsibility on the field is a blessing, but it so often seems to come at the cost of actual quality in playing the game.

In a similar vein, I was trying to understand Eddie's selection and found myself wondering about England's almost traditional reluctance to select creative players. England's pack yesterday never looked like they were about to make something interesting happen and similarly without Ford in the channel the backs looked rudderless.

So how can you say Farrell, the 10, was good, or even one of our best? He was God awful as a 10. I don't care if he grafts, his no1 job as a 10 is to get our backs playing. And he completely and utterly failed. Just look at the difference when Ford came on.

Stom wrote: So how can you say Farrell, the 10, was good, or even one of our best?

I didn't.

He was out of his depth. He had no response whatsoever to the challenge of running the game. He missed all of his kicks at goal and gummed up what should be a pivot of attack. He was basically the reincarnation of everything people on here have critiqued over the last couple of years. Anyone that glosses over that is a fool. It is difficult to overstate how utterly untroubled Ireland were with Farrell directing traffic. Please, keep him at 10 for the next 5 years as it will give opposition valuable training runs. Ditto Mike Brown. Both of those players can graft manfully till the cows come home, but neither of them can win games all on their own, which is how they play. That kok Stephen Jones used to give the Super rugby comp a lot of shyte (basketball rugby, etc etc) but at least our coaches don't approach the problem like it's a game of wooden soldiers.

You can see why a lot of die-hard England supporters and fans of 10 man rugby would feel that Fazlet at outside-half would be mustard. The 'Modern Game' seems to disagree.
He doesn't have the naturalistic spatial awareness of Ford but he's not too shabby, he grafts and he can tidy sh*t.

Like others have said,...for a makeshift 12 he provides a lot of versatility and flexibility.

Faz fixed the defence nicely once or twice. Showed very quick hands for the Daly switch off the lineout where Aki smashed him. I suspect he's basically a rugby league player. When he knows what he's supposed to do, and his role, he can do it very effectively, when we're in live play with no prelaid plans, then it's all a lot more disjointed.

Raggs wrote:Faz fixed the defence nicely once or twice. Showed very quick hands for the Daly switch off the lineout where Aki smashed him. I suspect he's basically a rugby league player. When he knows what he's supposed to do, and his role, he can do it very effectively, when we're in live play with no prelaid plans, then it's all a lot more disjointed.

When Jones decides against a rugby league style of attack ( please England, appoint an attack coach) then Farrell might not be so pivotal to every team selection.

I'm a sad old sentimentalist......but I like the Boys Own story of them playing together for a long time.
If there's some telepathy then England should exploit it.