RugbyRebels

Also worth reiterating that this isn't just about developing players. It's coaching and reffing too.

Prem rugby isn't deemed high enough quality by external powers to develop refs.

It certainly looks like a way f moving Rugby on in Scotland. Are 6 teams enough, though ? While I appreciate that there may not be enough resources to spread round a larger number of teams,I wonder if 6 is enough for a meaningful competition.

Stones of granite wrote:It certainly looks like a way f moving Rugby on in Scotland. Are 6 teams enough, though ? While I appreciate that there may not be enough resources to spread round a larger number of teams,I wonder if 6 is enough for a meaningful competition.

That question was asked. This is the start of something that will be evaluated after 5 years and possibly expanded to 8 or 10 teams if felt needed.

I asked about games and they will play each other 3 times (I think) with further cross border games.

Another thing that was mentioned is that not all teams will neccesarily use what would be perceived to be their own current 1st XV (especially if they retain a team in the premiership or championship). There will be a lot of recruitment from all the premiership and championship. A Melrose might but say a Marr (for example, I doubt they are bidding) would need to recruit heavily.

I’m all for it and might go to a game or 2. One of the guys I used to play with in Ed 2 jumped and is benching for a premier 1 team.

While he has worked hard and has the time and effort to commit to training the gap between the leagues isn’t nearly as big as u would expect.

Bids below. Surprised to see no Aberdeen but otherwise it looks as good a spread as you'd get. I suppose there's a worry that if East and West only get 1 team each they could be super strong and overwhelm the others... but 2 each means a far worse geographical spread.



Ayr
Boroughmuir
Currie Chieftains
Dundee
Edinburgh Academical FC
Gala
Glasgow Hawks
Hawick
Heriot’s
Melrose
Stirling County
Watsonian FC

I'd go along and watch a Dundee franchise.

Good to see 2 Midlands clubs. Rumours at the start of the year county were struggling but must have a deal with the uni.

Would like to see Dundee and Stirling get it.

Aberdeen not bidding must have pissed on the chips of the SRU.

If the Dundee bid is at all feasible, and there are challenges to that then they have to give Dundee one.

Reason being, as you'll know is that Stirling is right on the edge of the Caley/Glasgow border so a huge part of the Caley region will be excluded.

It, for me, casts doubt on a potential pro team in Aberdeen. Obviously my preference would have been dundee or Perth anyway.

OptimisticJock wrote:It, for me, casts doubt on a potential pro team in Aberdeen. Obviously my preference would have been dundee or Perth anyway.

Casts doubt? If newspaper reports are to be believed about the reasons for a lack of a bid from Aberdeen, then it kills it stone dead.

Stones of granite wrote:

OptimisticJock wrote:It, for me, casts doubt on a potential pro team in Aberdeen. Obviously my preference would have been dundee or Perth anyway.

Casts doubt? If newspaper reports are to be believed about the reasons for a lack of a bid from Aberdeen, then it kills it stone dead.

I disagree that it kills a pro team dead but but would need a lot of work to do it.

These S6 clubs are taking on a huge undertaking. The SRU figures are well light in what each club will need to put in.

Grammar are 7th in the 2nd division, Aberdeenshire have withdrawn from the 3rd. Unless the uni or school were willing to lump this was always a borderline choice to bid. Remember these players are going to be mostly "paid amatuers". With no team close to the premiership the players currently in that area are below S6 quality. How would they recruit guys to.move to Aberdeen for effectively an enhanced match fee?

Dundee is just about doable from Edinburgh and Aberdeen (for keen players) for training and games. Aberdeen has it's surrounding areas and probably as far south as Dundee.

Any pro team will be paying a significant wage and involve relocation etc as that is their jobs.

Big D wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

OptimisticJock wrote:It, for me, casts doubt on a potential pro team in Aberdeen. Obviously my preference would have been dundee or Perth anyway.

Casts doubt? If newspaper reports are to be believed about the reasons for a lack of a bid from Aberdeen, then it kills it stone dead.

I disagree that it kills a pro team dead but but would need a lot of work to do it.

These S6 clubs are taking on a huge undertaking. The SRU figures are well light in what each club will need to put in.

Grammar are 7th in the 2nd division, Aberdeenshire have withdrawn from the 3rd. Unless the uni or school were willing to lump this was always a borderline choice to bid. Remember these players are going to be mostly "paid amatuers". With no team close to the premiership the players currently in that area are below S6 quality. How would they recruit guys to.move to Aberdeen for effectively an enhanced match fee?

Dundee is just about doable from Edinburgh and Aberdeen (for keen players) for training and games. Aberdeen has it's surrounding areas and probably as far south as Dundee.

Any pro team will be paying a significant wage and involve relocation etc as that is their jobs.

Maybe you didn’t read the article I was referring to.
https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-un ... -1-4714644

This is the key bit:
A spokesperson for Aberdeen Grammar, the city’s leading club told The Scotsman that discussions between local clubs, businesses and higher education facilities had led to the conclusion that a bid would not be feasible. He said: “We were keen to see if we could come up with something and five years ago would have been in a strong position but with the way the economy has gone in the north-east, the decline of the oil industry, we just couldn’t make the numbers add up. We have lost a significant amount of sponsorship over the past few years.”

Now, it’s hard to believe that there is less money in Aberdeen than there is in either Stirling or Dundee, despite the oil industry downturn, so the only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that businesses in Aberdeen have no appetite for supporting Rugby.

It seems that way - Aberdeen has the population, two decent (all relative) standard clubs, stadia access and good transport links.

Would have thought Aberdeen asset management would be interested after their involvement with Edinburgh. Although I understand they have fallen on harder times in recent years as well.

PS did someone not say earlier in this thread that a SRU blazer stated there would definitely be a viable Caledonia bid at one of the super 6 presentations?

Stones of granite wrote:

Big D wrote:

Stones of granite wrote: Casts doubt? If newspaper reports are to be believed about the reasons for a lack of a bid from Aberdeen, then it kills it stone dead.

I disagree that it kills a pro team dead but but would need a lot of work to do it.

These S6 clubs are taking on a huge undertaking. The SRU figures are well light in what each club will need to put in.

Grammar are 7th in the 2nd division, Aberdeenshire have withdrawn from the 3rd. Unless the uni or school were willing to lump this was always a borderline choice to bid. Remember these players are going to be mostly "paid amatuers". With no team close to the premiership the players currently in that area are below S6 quality. How would they recruit guys to.move to Aberdeen for effectively an enhanced match fee?

Dundee is just about doable from Edinburgh and Aberdeen (for keen players) for training and games. Aberdeen has it's surrounding areas and probably as far south as Dundee.

Any pro team will be paying a significant wage and involve relocation etc as that is their jobs.

Maybe you didn’t read the article I was referring to.
https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-un ... -1-4714644

This is the key bit:
A spokesperson for Aberdeen Grammar, the city’s leading club told The Scotsman that discussions between local clubs, businesses and higher education facilities had led to the conclusion that a bid would not be feasible. He said: “We were keen to see if we could come up with something and five years ago would have been in a strong position but with the way the economy has gone in the north-east, the decline of the oil industry, we just couldn’t make the numbers add up. We have lost a significant amount of sponsorship over the past few years.”

Now, it’s hard to believe that there is less money in Aberdeen than there is in either Stirling or Dundee, despite the oil industry downturn, so the only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that businesses in Aberdeen have no appetite for supporting Rugby.

Saw that. But I did say it would need a lot of work and that it wasn't stone dead IMO. S6 participation is not like for like with a pro team.

They may have looked at it and decided they couldn't afford to uplift it would need to move amateur players up north.

Any pro team could be substantially SRU funded to begin with depending on the ownership %age at Edinburgh and Glasgow at the time.

The likely investor in a pro team AAM is more likely to want to be a competition sponsor than a team sponsor for the S6 league.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:It seems that way - Aberdeen has the population, two decent (all relative) standard clubs, stadia access and good transport links.

Would have thought Aberdeen asset management would be interested after their involvement with Edinburgh. Although I understand they have fallen on harder times in recent years as well.

PS did someone not say earlier in this thread that a SRU blazer stated there would definitely be a viable Caledonia bid at one of the super 6 presentations?

He did. There are 2 bids.

Big D wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

Big D wrote:I disagree that it kills a pro team dead but but would need a lot of work to do it.

These S6 clubs are taking on a huge undertaking. The SRU figures are well light in what each club will need to put in.

Grammar are 7th in the 2nd division, Aberdeenshire have withdrawn from the 3rd. Unless the uni or school were willing to lump this was always a borderline choice to bid. Remember these players are going to be mostly "paid amatuers". With no team close to the premiership the players currently in that area are below S6 quality. How would they recruit guys to.move to Aberdeen for effectively an enhanced match fee?

Dundee is just about doable from Edinburgh and Aberdeen (for keen players) for training and games. Aberdeen has it's surrounding areas and probably as far south as Dundee.

Any pro team will be paying a significant wage and involve relocation etc as that is their jobs.

Maybe you didn’t read the article I was referring to.
https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-un ... -1-4714644

This is the key bit:
A spokesperson for Aberdeen Grammar, the city’s leading club told The Scotsman that discussions between local clubs, businesses and higher education facilities had led to the conclusion that a bid would not be feasible. He said: “We were keen to see if we could come up with something and five years ago would have been in a strong position but with the way the economy has gone in the north-east, the decline of the oil industry, we just couldn’t make the numbers add up. We have lost a significant amount of sponsorship over the past few years.”

Now, it’s hard to believe that there is less money in Aberdeen than there is in either Stirling or Dundee, despite the oil industry downturn, so the only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that businesses in Aberdeen have no appetite for supporting Rugby.

Saw that. But I did say it would need a lot of work and that it wasn't stone dead IMO. S6 participation is not like for like with a pro team.

They may have looked at it and decided they couldn't afford to uplift it would need to move amateur players up north.

Any pro team could be substantially SRU funded to begin with depending on the ownership %age at Edinburgh and Glasgow at the time.

The likely investor in a pro team AAM is more likely to want to be a competition sponsor than a team sponsor for the S6 league.

The point about the player base is a fair one. Aberdeen is pretty isolated comapred to both Dundee and Stirling, which are more or less commutable from most of the Central Belt, whereas Aberdeen is not. However, the same applies to a catchment area for supporters of a Pro team.

Big D wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:It seems that way - Aberdeen has the population, two decent (all relative) standard clubs, stadia access and good transport links.

Would have thought Aberdeen asset management would be interested after their involvement with Edinburgh. Although I understand they have fallen on harder times in recent years as well.

PS did someone not say earlier in this thread that a SRU blazer stated there would definitely be a viable Caledonia bid at one of the super 6 presentations?

He did. There are 2 bids.

Yeah for some reason I don't count Dundee or Stirling even though they're Caledonia by definition - caledonia regional league, etc. I would have liked to have seen Aberdeen or Inverness (pipe dream) with a bid.

If the super 6 is a success hopefully it'll whet the appetite when expansion is discussed.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

Big D wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:It seems that way - Aberdeen has the population, two decent (all relative) standard clubs, stadia access and good transport links.

Would have thought Aberdeen asset management would be interested after their involvement with Edinburgh. Although I understand they have fallen on harder times in recent years as well.

PS did someone not say earlier in this thread that a SRU blazer stated there would definitely be a viable Caledonia bid at one of the super 6 presentations?

He did. There are 2 bids.

Yeah for some reason I don't count Dundee or Stirling even though they're Caledonia by definition - caledonia regional league, etc. I would have liked to have seen Aberdeen or Inverness (pipe dream) with a bid.

If the super 6 is a success hopefully it'll whet the appetite when expansion is discussed.

If this is a hit we will see a S8 or S10.

Stones of granite wrote:

Big D wrote:

Stones of granite wrote: Maybe you didn’t read the article I was referring to.
https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-un ... -1-4714644

This is the key bit:
A spokesperson for Aberdeen Grammar, the city’s leading club told The Scotsman that discussions between local clubs, businesses and higher education facilities had led to the conclusion that a bid would not be feasible. He said: “We were keen to see if we could come up with something and five years ago would have been in a strong position but with the way the economy has gone in the north-east, the decline of the oil industry, we just couldn’t make the numbers add up. We have lost a significant amount of sponsorship over the past few years.”

Now, it’s hard to believe that there is less money in Aberdeen than there is in either Stirling or Dundee, despite the oil industry downturn, so the only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that businesses in Aberdeen have no appetite for supporting Rugby.

Saw that. But I did say it would need a lot of work and that it wasn't stone dead IMO. S6 participation is not like for like with a pro team.

They may have looked at it and decided they couldn't afford to uplift it would need to move amateur players up north.

Any pro team could be substantially SRU funded to begin with depending on the ownership %age at Edinburgh and Glasgow at the time.

The likely investor in a pro team AAM is more likely to want to be a competition sponsor than a team sponsor for the S6 league.

The point about the player base is a fair one. Aberdeen is pretty isolated comapred to both Dundee and Stirling, which are more or less commutable from most of the Central Belt, whereas Aberdeen is not. However, the same applies to a catchment area for supporters of a Pro team.

But at the same time supporters wouldn't have had a say necessarily. The discussions may only have got as far as the grammar committee. There is vocal minority against the S6 too (similar to when the districts went pro).

All I was trying to say was whilst this hurts the case of a pro team up there it shouldn't totally rile it out in the future. Especially when it was reliant on a team 7th in the second division driving it.

Dundee HSFP reckon only 5 or 6 of their current squad will make the S6 team so Aberdeen will be in a similar position. Trying to attract amateurs to move/travel to Aberdeen would be incredibly difficult. Investors will say it's a money thing but I bet a part of it was "we don't want to pay for the privilege of paying for the team getting pumped every week" too.

I really hope the Dundee team are called Dundee Unicorns. They can have the boat itself as part of the badge, and play this as the music before kick-off...

General Zod wrote:I really hope the Dundee team are called Dundee Unicorns. They can have the boat itself as part of the badge, and play this as the music before kick-off...

That
Is
A
Mazing....

WTF is that?

D-day tomorrow.

I reckon...

Hawks and Ayr
Melrose
Dundee and Stirling
Currie and 2 others from Edinburgh.

I reckon the super eight rumours are probably right.

I was about to say that makes 8!

They've stuck with 6 and gone Melrose, Stirling County, Ayr, Watsonians, Boroughmuir and Heriots.

The big, and to my mind wrong, omission is Hawks. Makes no sense to have no Glasgow side. Dundee are also very disappointed. Both these teams said they had tie ups with universities. Wonder if the SRU might expand to Super 8 to show they listen