RugbyRebels

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:I assume the 6 months timetable revolved around sharing with some major local establishment, a university or similar, and that fell through. They can't have meant 6 months to do the lot on their own site

From the article:
‘Wasps moved to Coventry at the end of 2014, and owner Derek Richardson pledged that they would have to use a temporary training base for only six months, before a new, state-of-the-art HQ was ready.’

Fake news

And/or that might well have been establishing their own office, medical facilities somewhere that already had indoor and gym facilities

The first reported plan was at the Higgs centre, where there were already pitches, facilities etc, and it would have needed just a few things built, but could have well been up and running quickly. It even had planning permission. That fell through (suspicions that it may have had something to do with the council wanted to tag on an olympic swimming pool).

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:I assume the 6 months timetable revolved around sharing with some major local establishment, a university or similar, and that fell through. They can't have meant 6 months to do the lot on their own site

From the article:
‘Wasps moved to Coventry at the end of 2014, and owner Derek Richardson pledged that they would have to use a temporary training base for only six months, before a new, state-of-the-art HQ was ready.’

Fake news

And/or that might well have been establishing their own office, medical facilities somewhere that already had indoor and gym facilities

Six months to source, purchase/lease and refurbish still sounds like you’re pushing it. In their defence, they may have found somewhere at the time of the promise only for the landlord/owner to pull out at the last minute. Still, ‘New and state of the art’ still sounds like a new build to me.

Edit: or what Raggs said.....though, I’d still maintain it takes longer than six months to agree terms and refurb to ‘state of the art’

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: From the article:
‘Wasps moved to Coventry at the end of 2014, and owner Derek Richardson pledged that they would have to use a temporary training base for only six months, before a new, state-of-the-art HQ was ready.’

Fake news

And/or that might well have been establishing their own office, medical facilities somewhere that already had indoor and gym facilities

Six months to source, purchase/lease and refurbish still sounds like you’re pushing it. In their defence, they may have found somewhere at the time of the promise only for the landlord/owner to pull out at the last minute. Still, ‘New and state of the art’ still sounds like a new build to me.

Edit: or what Raggs said.....though, I’d still maintain it takes longer than six months to agree terms and refurb to ‘state of the art’

What do they need? Training pitches, indoor facilities, a gym, office space, medical facilities. Had they found a site which already had that bar office space and medical facilities I think it might have been doable, especially if there was planning permission already in place on a new site

Digby wrote:What do they need? Training pitches, indoor facilities, a gym, office space, medical facilities. Had they found a site which already had that bar office space and medical facilities I think it might have been doable, especially if there was planning permission already in place on a new site

Higgs site had pitches, some indoor, gym, office space, and I believe extra space to convert to medical. It was pretty much setup, with only conversion of a couple of pitches and setting up a kicking building with 3g indoor surface.

With the Commonwealth coming to Birmingham there's going to be development at Alexander stadium, and there's a lot of extra space still on that site which will not be getting used (other than as parkland, which isn't nothing)

That's a long way off into the future however, and they might well prefer something in Coventry over Birmingham

Digby wrote:With the Commonwealth coming to Birmingham there's going to be development at Alexander stadium, and there's a lot of extra space still on that site which will not be getting used (other than as parkland, which isn't nothing)

That's a long way off into the future however, and they might well prefer something in Coventry over Birmingham

It’d be worth it just to watch Worcester reaction. Assuming they still exist as a pro club at that point.

Raggs wrote:

Digby wrote:What do they need? Training pitches, indoor facilities, a gym, office space, medical facilities. Had they found a site which already had that bar office space and medical facilities I think it might have been doable, especially if there was planning permission already in place on a new site

Higgs site had pitches, some indoor, gym, office space, and I believe extra space to convert to medical. It was pretty much setup, with only conversion of a couple of pitches and setting up a kicking building with 3g indoor surface.

What was it’s previous/current use?

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:With the Commonwealth coming to Birmingham there's going to be development at Alexander stadium, and there's a lot of extra space still on that site which will not be getting used (other than as parkland, which isn't nothing)

That's a long way off into the future however, and they might well prefer something in Coventry over Birmingham

It’d be worth it just to watch Worcester reaction. Assuming they still exist as a pro club at that point.

Depends a bit, more than a bit really, where the respective players tend to be based. But Birmingham to Coventry strikes me as an easier commute than Birmingham to Worcester

Mellsblue wrote:

Raggs wrote:

Digby wrote:What do they need? Training pitches, indoor facilities, a gym, office space, medical facilities. Had they found a site which already had that bar office space and medical facilities I think it might have been doable, especially if there was planning permission already in place on a new site

Higgs site had pitches, some indoor, gym, office space, and I believe extra space to convert to medical. It was pretty much setup, with only conversion of a couple of pitches and setting up a kicking building with 3g indoor surface.

What was it’s previous/current use?

Used as a community training facility, and also has CCFC academy training there.

Raggs wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Raggs wrote:
Higgs site had pitches, some indoor, gym, office space, and I believe extra space to convert to medical. It was pretty much setup, with only conversion of a couple of pitches and setting up a kicking building with 3g indoor surface.

What was it’s previous/current use?

Used as a community training facility, and also has CCFC academy training there.

Obviously not having seen it.....if they want to go from council quality spec to state of the art you’re normally talking starting from scratch. Brand new M&E.....the works. It’s a big job. Still, shame it didn’t happen, especially if there was still some use for the public. Once again, we’ve disappeared down the black hole of discussing what ifs and never wills!

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:With the Commonwealth coming to Birmingham there's going to be development at Alexander stadium, and there's a lot of extra space still on that site which will not be getting used (other than as parkland, which isn't nothing)

That's a long way off into the future however, and they might well prefer something in Coventry over Birmingham

It’d be worth it just to watch Worcester reaction. Assuming they still exist as a pro club at that point.

Depends a bit, more than a bit really, where the respective players tend to be based. But Birmingham to Coventry strikes me as an easier commute than Birmingham to Worcester

If I remember correctly, and I probably don’t, didn’t Wuss have a bit of a hissy fit about Wasps encroaching on their academy turf with the move to Cov. I’m sure basing their HQ and training facilities in Brum wouldn’t have gone down too well.

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: It’d be worth it just to watch Worcester reaction. Assuming they still exist as a pro club at that point.

Depends a bit, more than a bit really, where the respective players tend to be based. But Birmingham to Coventry strikes me as an easier commute than Birmingham to Worcester

If I remember correctly, and I probably don’t, didn’t Wuss have a bit of a hissy fit about Wasps encroaching on their academy turf with the move to Cov. I’m sure basing their HQ and training facilities in Brum wouldn’t have gone down too well.

A hissy fit is a bit strong. They had concerns about giving up some areas wherein they'd built community links to clubs and schools with dividends likely yet to pay out.

Well if nothing else, the bean counters will likely be happy with what appears to be a big crowd on Sunday.

Harrow School could have offered Wasps a bit of land 30 years ago. I'd imagine they regret it now.

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:
Depends a bit, more than a bit really, where the respective players tend to be based. But Birmingham to Coventry strikes me as an easier commute than Birmingham to Worcester

If I remember correctly, and I probably don’t, didn’t Wuss have a bit of a hissy fit about Wasps encroaching on their academy turf with the move to Cov. I’m sure basing their HQ and training facilities in Brum wouldn’t have gone down too well.

A hissy fit is a bit strong. They had concerns about giving up some areas wherein they'd built community links to clubs and schools with dividends likely yet to pay out.

and TBF they had every right to be pissed anyway.

You build a academy system and plan for the future and lose it to another club who just decides well we will have that fek you.

jimKRFC wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: Those training facilities sound awful. Though, anyone who promised or thought they’d have new ones ready from scratch in under 3/4/5 years is naive, let alone in six months.

Bristol broke ground earlier this year and due to be ready end 2019 on theirs, 3 - 5 years seems a bit slow...

IIRC Craig bough Bath April 2010, and moved in to Farleigh by Christmas 2010, all work finished ahead of pre-season 2011

Which Tyler wrote:

jimKRFC wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: Those training facilities sound awful. Though, anyone who promised or thought they’d have new ones ready from scratch in under 3/4/5 years is naive, let alone in six months.

Bristol broke ground earlier this year and due to be ready end 2019 on theirs, 3 - 5 years seems a bit slow...

IIRC Craig bough Bath April 2010, and moved in to Farleigh by Christmas 2010, all work finished ahead of pre-season 2011

So, very nearly 18 months from securing the leasehold in April 2010, and that doesn’t take into account finding the right building/site, negotiating with the owner and the discussions with planners. That makes the six months look silly even if Wasps had secured a site, which they hadn’t.

Which Tyler wrote:

jimKRFC wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: Those training facilities sound awful. Though, anyone who promised or thought they’d have new ones ready from scratch in under 3/4/5 years is naive, let alone in six months.

Bristol broke ground earlier this year and due to be ready end 2019 on theirs, 3 - 5 years seems a bit slow...

IIRC Craig bough Bath April 2010, and moved in to Farleigh by Christmas 2010, all work finished ahead of pre-season 2011

What did they have to build down there, what did they build, and how much was just being able to throw money at the situation what helped bring a resolution?

Mellsblue wrote: So, very nearly 18 months from securing the leasehold in April 2010, and that doesn’t take into account finding the right building/site, negotiating with the owner and the discussions with planners. That makes the six months look silly even if Wasps had secured a site, which they hadn’t.

Yes, 6 months looks silly anywa.
Though Farliegh would never have happend without Bruce; we don't know how long he was negotiating with Brownsword for beforehand, but I doubt it would have been TOO long -

Digby wrote:What did they have to build down there, what did they build, and how much was just being able to throw money at the situation what helped bring a resolution?

Build from scratch or convert / renovate entirely in a listed building in a World Heritage Site?

Which Tyler wrote: Build from scratch or convert / renovate entirely in a listed building in a World Heritage Site?

Build it to do what?

I assume installing offices wasn't too difficult, either for the management, admin, analysis staff, medical facilities would be trickier perhaps, but how many pitches, what grade of pitches, was there then or now indoor facilities to train on, a gym, and so on?

I'm wondering as they might have put up some basic extras on site and simply used a lot of what's on offer at Bath Uni, so the onsite development be it a World heritage site or not mayn't be on the same scale as what others have done

Okay - Everything.
Admin, bedrooms, kitchens, medical/rehab facilities, training facilities, gym, 2 4G pitches - 1 indoor IIRC and another 2 full size grass pitches.

The Chapel became the gym; complete with new foundations; a pile of rubble became "The Long Barn" for the medical, rehab, changing and showers etc. The main house itself was extensively renovated / restored, under the guidance of English Heritage.

By all accounts, they took it from knackered school =>office building to being one of the top facilities in the country, rivalling the top Prem football clubs.

Did they announce how much they spent? It's not hard to speed things up, it is hard to do that without paying more than might be needed

What was it used for previously? Is everything in the main building or in ancillary buildings or new builds? As with the Higgs site, I’ve never been there but I’d imagine working on that building on a big change of use would be an absolute nightmare, both satisfying all the relevant bodies and from a build point of view. I bet it was all worth it, though. I’d love to look round.

The timescales on Farleigh as opposed to the new Rec are stark. Just shows that planning can be an utter nightmare, and almost always is with something on this scale.

Digby wrote:Did they announce how much they spent? It's not hard to speed things up, it is hard to do that without paying more than might be needed

Inside any listed etc buildings, depending on much you are knocking it around, you can chuck as much money at it as you like but if the Conservation Officer or English Heritage don’t like it then tough, and those feckers don't work at your pace.
I once had an issue on a Grade II listed house with refurbing the timber windows. Sixish months until the conservation officer would give the ok to a contractor, about the 100th (slight exaggeration) one I’d suggested, on a run-of-the-mill four bed Victorian house by the side of a busy main road.