What happens if we get whitewashed in SA?

[Scrumhead]

Yes but what do you think would happen if we did lose all 3 games with similar performances to our last four?

Does anyone else fear a media slaughtering leading to mega-meltdown from Eddie a year out from the World Cup?

[Oakboy]

The squad of players we’re taking out there shouldn’t be losing 3-0 to this South Africa team/squad. We’ll need to get off to a good start I think.

That is the point. IF the head coach does his job properly the best XV from that squad WILL beat SA. BUT, the best team available should not have lost to Scotland or France in the 6N. Pretending otherwise is just excusing incompetence. As ever, I don't mind us losing if we are not good enough but we sodding well are. The buck stops with one guy. It's up to Jones. Perform or frick off.

[Banquo]

The squad of players we’re taking out there shouldn’t be losing 3-0 to this South Africa team/squad. We’ll need to get off to a good start I think.

That is the point. IF the head coach does his job properly the best XV from that squad WILL beat SA. BUT, the best team available should not have lost to Scotland or France in the 6N. Pretending otherwise is just excusing incompetence. As ever, I don't mind us losing if we are not good enough but we sodding well are. The buck stops with one guy. It's up to Jones. Perform or frick off.

What makes you believe that- genuine question?

[Mikey Brown]

Interesting. I think it (the recent decline/results) was a bit of a reality check to be honest. Jones has improved a lot of things, we are a good side, mostly, but we’ve scraped by a number of times and I don’t think there’s that many results to be taken for granted. Definitely not SA in SA.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Interesting. I think it (the recent decline/results) was a bit of a reality check to be honest. Jones has improved a lot of things, we are a good side, mostly, but we’ve scraped by a number of times and I don’t think there’s that many results to be taken for granted. Definitely not SA in SA.

with the first 2 games at altitude and them with a new coach who very recently turned around another team with decent players and made immediate improvements.

[richy678]

We don't know enough about "behind the scenes" to make any calls based on Eddies relationship or management style with the players.
Mind you - if he had to explain some home truths and knock the wind out of a few sails after the winning streak - he has certainly managed that.
If his strategy was to knock 'em down, so he can build them back up the left hand side of a shorter term bell curve of performance (thinking we have peaked too soon) he has managed that.

I think Eddie will be in big trouble if we get stuffed in SA. I will also not be impressed with a consolation win in third test if SA pick a development side after sewing the series up. He is likely to be able to stay in place as he has a big juicey contract and bring in new assistant coaches to save his face/bacon. Attack/defence there's a couple of jobs up for grabs if you fancy pinging in your CV's.

Eddie does select sometimes as if his personality tells him to do stuff to wind people up and show how single minded he his.

Had a wonderfull honeymoon.
Got to make some big decisions about the teams over 30's.
Fair play he has looked at a number of back row players - but he has to put his c**k on the block now.

[Oakboy]

The squad of players we’re taking out there shouldn’t be losing 3-0 to this South Africa team/squad. We’ll need to get off to a good start I think.

That is the point. IF the head coach does his job properly the best XV from that squad WILL beat SA. BUT, the best team available should not have lost to Scotland or France in the 6N. Pretending otherwise is just excusing incompetence. As ever, I don't mind us losing if we are not good enough but we sodding well are. The buck stops with one guy. It's up to Jones. Perform or frick off.

What makes you believe that- genuine question?

In a nutshell, the EQ combination of Saracens and Exeter is up to being moulded into an effective international unit, especially when supplemented by a few top players like Daly and Cipriani. I don't think our long winning streak was such a flaw in logic. We won close matches on belief and team spirit. That is no longer there. IMO, Jones will struggle to restore it but it IS 'restorable'.

[Banquo]

That is the point. IF the head coach does his job properly the best XV from that squad WILL beat SA. BUT, the best team available should not have lost to Scotland or France in the 6N. Pretending otherwise is just excusing incompetence. As ever, I don't mind us losing if we are not good enough but we sodding well are. The buck stops with one guy. It's up to Jones. Perform or frick off.

What makes you believe that- genuine question?

In a nutshell, the EQ combination of Saracens and Exeter is up to being moulded into an effective international unit, especially when supplemented by a few top players like Daly and Cipriani. I don't think our long winning streak was such a flaw in logic. We won close matches on belief and team spirit. That is no longer there. IMO, Jones will struggle to restore it but it IS 'restorable'.

Effective international unit is not the same as one that will always beat France, Scotland, SA say; you are both doing those sides a disservice and overestimating what AP clubs best translates to in international terms; I agree on the belief point though.

Just to take your example....from combining Sarries and Exeter you still would be struggling in the areas that England have struggled in. That's why they've struggled, in part.

[Stom]

It's starting to sound a bit like the cricket...

[Banquo]

It's starting to sound a bit like the cricket...

Not dissimilar- though the cricket team have less options to mull over.

[Stom]

It's starting to sound a bit like the cricket...

Not dissimilar- though the cricket team have less options to mull over.

I meant more that the domestic competition does not produce players suited to international sport...

[Banquo]

It's starting to sound a bit like the cricket...

Not dissimilar- though the cricket team have less options to mull over.

I meant more that the domestic competition does not produce players suited to international sport...

Its a much more extreme problem in cricket though; I don't think the AP teams are that far away- need to find a way to up the intensity, quality, and develop some sort of national style which uses opensides

[Scrumhead]

Yeah. I’d agree with that. If we can get quick ball off Tom Curry winning turnovers like he did against the Barbarians more regularly, it will help a great deal.

[Banquo]

Yeah. I’d agree with that. If we can get quick ball off Tom Curry winning turnovers like he did against the Barbarians more regularly, it will help a great deal.

Eddie fessed up to being 'caught out' by how the opposition played the breakdown- and its not just about winning turnovers. Does look like he remembers his confession judging by selection, but it takes a bit more than selection.

[Mellsblue]

Yeah. I’d agree with that. If we can get quick ball off Tom Curry winning turnovers like he did against the Barbarians more regularly, it will help a great deal.

Eddie fessed up to being 'caught out' by how the opposition played the breakdown- and its not just about winning turnovers. Does look like he remembers his confession judging by selection, but it takes a bit more than selection.

Yep. We were still making the same errors/decisions that were occurring in the 6N.

[Banquo]

Yeah. I’d agree with that. If we can get quick ball off Tom Curry winning turnovers like he did against the Barbarians more regularly, it will help a great deal.

Eddie fessed up to being 'caught out' by how the opposition played the breakdown- and its not just about winning turnovers. Does look like he remembers his confession judging by selection, but it takes a bit more than selection.

Yep. We were still making the same errors/decisions that were occurring in the 6N.

..aye. Though it was a scratch side

[Mellsblue]

Eddie fessed up to being 'caught out' by how the opposition played the breakdown- and its not just about winning turnovers. Does look like he remembers his confession judging by selection, but it takes a bit more than selection.

Yep. We were still making the same errors/decisions that were occurring in the 6N.

..aye. Though it was a scratch side

I knew you’d come round to my way of thinking

[Peat]

Depends how it goes down innit.

Barring a really horrible summer - one where the players basically quit on him - I'll probably reserve judgment to the AIs.

But, then, is the question really what will our judgments be? Or is it what will happen to the team/coach?

[Mellsblue]

But, then, is the question really what will our judgments be? Or is it what will happen to the team/coach?

Knowing the esteem in which this board is held in Twickenham’s corridors of power, are they not one and the same thing.

[Oakboy]

But, then, is the question really what will our judgments be? Or is it what will happen to the team/coach?

Knowing the esteem in which this board is held in Twickenham’s corridors of power, are they not one and the same thing.

Could be. So sack Jones if we lose all three? Could his credibility survive that (with us, the dressing room or the blazers)?

[Scrumhead]

I can’t see him being sacked even if the performances are awful.

His previous record plus the impact a change would have on World Cup preparations makes him practically unsackable.

What I worry about more is how he might react if the media lay in to him. I can almost imagine him having a massive a fuc% you moment and quitting leaving us up sh!t creek.

Hopefully it’s all irrelevant. Eddie has shown he can make it work with England. He now just needs to show he can learn from his mistakes and get us back to winning ways.

[Mellsblue]

Much like Cook’s partner at the top of the order, you might not rate the incumbent but who is better to replace him?

[Puja]

But, then, is the question really what will our judgments be? Or is it what will happen to the team/coach?

Knowing the esteem in which this board is held in Twickenham’s corridors of power, are they not one and the same thing.

Could be. So sack Jones if we lose all three? Could his credibility survive that (with us, the dressing room or the blazers)?

Possibly. But what happens if we win all three? Or win one by 50, lose one by 50, and draw the third? What happens if our tour leads to a revolution in South Africa that puts Pieter de Villiers in charge of the country? What happens then?

I can't believe we've got a thread asking "What happens if we get whitewashed?" before the team have even left the country. Have a little bit of faith people!

Puja

[morepork]

Ha Ha. Welcome to fast Eddies world.

[Mellsblue]

Knowing the esteem in which this board is held in Twickenham’s corridors of power, are they not one and the same thing.

Could be. So sack Jones if we lose all three? Could his credibility survive that (with us, the dressing room or the blazers)?

Possibly. But what happens if we win all three? Or win one by 50, lose one by 50, and draw the third? What happens if our tour leads to a revolution in South Africa that puts Pieter de Villiers in charge of the country? What happens then?

I can't believe we've got a thread asking "What happens if we get whitewashed?" before the team have even left the country. Have a little bit of faith people!

Puja

Is it even called a whitewash in SA?