RugbyRebels

Cotter is the most interesting name I've heard in this thread.

Talking to Gatland makes sense but I just wouldn't want it.

Cotter does seem the obvious choice to me - though if we DO wait until after the RWC19; he may be off the market.
Equally, the RWC usually sees a merrigoround for coaches, so the picture for all international-level coaches will be completely different by then. No harm in talking to them and assessing interest though, of course.

Peat wrote:Cotter is the most interesting name I've heard in this thread.

Meaning: a pin or wedge used to fix parts rigidly together

How apt

I’m not sure Cotter actually is the most obvious choice, but he’d 100% be at the top of my list.

Tigersman wrote:

Puja wrote:I would be over the moon if Lam wanted to come. Seeing what he's done with Connacht and then Bristol, he's a master of getting a team to play better than the sum of its parts. Can't imagine what he'd be able to do with leading players - heavens forfend that he gets the All Blacks job!

Puja

Bristol the team with two NZ players on around £2 million a season between them....

Well England have a even more NZ players. Not sure what you’d be paying a Shields or a Te’o though.

Has anyone called Sir Clive yet?

Lizard wrote:

Tigersman wrote:

Puja wrote:I would be over the moon if Lam wanted to come. Seeing what he's done with Connacht and then Bristol, he's a master of getting a team to play better than the sum of its parts. Can't imagine what he'd be able to do with leading players - heavens forfend that he gets the All Blacks job!

Puja

Bristol the team with two NZ players on around £2 million a season between them....

Well England have a even more NZ players. Not sure what you’d be paying a Shields or a Te’o though.

And, well, Briz have 3 former NZ internationals. Plus an NZ born Tongan international and 2 NZ born Samoa internationals.

WaspInWales wrote:Has anyone called Sir Clive yet?

No need. He’ll call them or, more likelihood, send them a PowerPoint presentation.

I wonder how long it'll take Tom Wood to selflessly volunteer his services?

Lancaster is the most interesting move I've seen mooted. Presumably this time they would actually give him the director of rugby type person he wanted last time.

After how much Gatland has bad-mouthed England over the years, if the RFU ever do appoint him England manager/head coach, the fans should march on HQ and tar & feather the whole RFU management board.

For me, and if he wants it, I'd take Baxter.

I don’t want Gatland, but as time goes on and Exeter don’t really evolve I am starting to question whether Baxter is ready yet.

He’s clearly built a really strong culture with Exeter which I think would be great for England. However, while he has managed to create a highly successful game plan for the Premiership, that hasn’t translated to success in Europe and he hasn’t yet developed an obvious plan-B. I think he could be the man for the future, but as of now, I think he needs to show that he has more strings to his bow.

Scrumhead wrote:I don’t want Gatland, but as time goes on and Exeter don’t really evolve I am starting to question whether Baxter is ready yet.

He’s clearly built a really strong culture with Exeter which I think would be great for England. However, while he has managed to create a highly successful game plan for the Premiership, that hasn’t translated to success in Europe and he hasn’t yet developed an obvious plan-B. I think he could be the man for the future, but as of now, I think he needs to show that he has more strings to his bow.

Ditto. I think he's as Mallinder was at his peak with Northampton, or McCall when Saracens could win in England but got thumped in Europe. Mallinder couldn't evolve, McCall could. Jury is out on Baxter right now.

Puja

Baxter genuinely won't leave exeter at this point. I can guarantee it. He is too emotionally invested in the club. He has unfinished business. Gatland would be a perfect fit. I think we should go all out for him.

I'm coming round to the idea of Cotter.

Can't see anyone else, really...

I usually get these things wrong but Cotter got my vote before EJ. I've been hugely impressed with Cotter.

Aside from that, McCall is clearly a class act. Is Hansen retiring after the WC or just leaving the ABs? Would love Joe Schmidt too...

I can't believe there's any mention of Lancaster... utterly, utterly insane.

I do think Joseph would do a great job with England's resources.

Cotter did a great job at Clermont but his international record isnt that impressive. Under him Scotland had a 52% win ratio, largely due to wins against Italy, Argentina, Japan and USA.
I'm not ruling him out, but i wonder what is it that people see in him that could make him a successful England coach?

Cotter also took over a Scotland squad that had a 31% win rate with Johnson and before that a 43% win rate under Robinson.

In his final year with Scotland he won 3 out of 5 Six Nations game, finished 5th in the world and came within a very controversial loss of making a semi final (Against Argentina which was a winnable game for them).

Based on Jones's era I don't want any foreign coaches considered just because they have international experience. It is more important, IMO, to have a good England-based coach with in-depth knowledge of English players at all levels, including junior international and club academy.

Baxter, McCall, Richards and Sanderson are worthy contenders.

I just can't agree with that. There's a huge difference between having 40 weeks for several years with the players, 0-4 of whom are off being influenced by other coaches; and having 12 weeks for a couple ofnyears with the players, all of whom are off being influenced by other coaches for the majority of their time.

Based on the Jones era, I'd rather we didn't sacrifice an 80% win ration for a 40% one*.


Figures for illustrative purposes, as I cant seem to find them accurately at the moment.

Scotland were definitely moving forwards under Cotter, though how much of that came from Townsend beneath him?

Cliff Richard? Sir Paul McCartney?

Puja wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:I don’t want Gatland, but as time goes on and Exeter don’t really evolve I am starting to question whether Baxter is ready yet.

He’s clearly built a really strong culture with Exeter which I think would be great for England. However, while he has managed to create a highly successful game plan for the Premiership, that hasn’t translated to success in Europe and he hasn’t yet developed an obvious plan-B. I think he could be the man for the future, but as of now, I think he needs to show that he has more strings to his bow.

Ditto. I think he's as Mallinder was at his peak with Northampton, or McCall when Saracens could win in England but got thumped in Europe. Mallinder couldn't evolve, McCall could. Jury is out on Baxter right now.

Puja

McCall has to be in with a shout.

As I said earlier in the thread, I think a coach with a good track record of winning in Europe (or internationally) as well as a proven domestic record is important.

McCall has also got a good track record of bringing through English players, knows the Premiership inside out and obviously knows a good chunk of the current squad which must help.

Scrumhead wrote:

Puja wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:I don’t want Gatland, but as time goes on and Exeter don’t really evolve I am starting to question whether Baxter is ready yet.

He’s clearly built a really strong culture with Exeter which I think would be great for England. However, while he has managed to create a highly successful game plan for the Premiership, that hasn’t translated to success in Europe and he hasn’t yet developed an obvious plan-B. I think he could be the man for the future, but as of now, I think he needs to show that he has more strings to his bow.

Ditto. I think he's as Mallinder was at his peak with Northampton, or McCall when Saracens could win in England but got thumped in Europe. Mallinder couldn't evolve, McCall could. Jury is out on Baxter right now.

Puja

McCall has to be in with a shout.

As I said earlier in the thread, I think a coach with a good track record of winning in Europe (or internationally) as well as a proven domestic record is important.

McCall has also got a good track record of bringing through English players, knows the Premiership inside out and obviously knows a good chunk of the current squad which must help.

Above all, McCall has a track record of getting the best out of players, a significant failing of Jones, IMO. In fact, the contrast between them in that respect is quite stark. If I was writing a job description for the England job a record of the ability to do that would be No 1 on the list.