The scrum will be fun on Saturday
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
The scrum performance for helping a game of rugby was pathetic. The number of scrums which actually restarted the game isn't close to acceptable, it's not even close to poor, they're a giant waste of time, and a waste of time that seemingly results in the random awarding of penalties. I never thought I'd reach this point, but I'm getting close to starting to wonder if we shouldn't have league style scrums if they're going to continue to be such a farce.
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
I'm pretty sure that there often seems to be more scrum problems when Wales are playing. Has anyone else noticed this?Digby wrote:The scrum performance for helping a game of rugby was pathetic. The number of scrums which actually restarted the game isn't close to acceptable, it's not even close to poor, they're a giant waste of time, and a waste of time that seemingly results in the random awarding of penalties. I never thought I'd reach this point, but I'm getting close to starting to wonder if we shouldn't have league style scrums if they're going to continue to be such a farce.
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
There are problems in the scrum in just about every game, be it test, European, AP.... If the scrum isn't restarting the game then it's failing.thedman wrote:I'm pretty sure that there often seems to be more scrum problems when Wales are playing. Has anyone else noticed this?Digby wrote:The scrum performance for helping a game of rugby was pathetic. The number of scrums which actually restarted the game isn't close to acceptable, it's not even close to poor, they're a giant waste of time, and a waste of time that seemingly results in the random awarding of penalties. I never thought I'd reach this point, but I'm getting close to starting to wonder if we shouldn't have league style scrums if they're going to continue to be such a farce.
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
Was anyone else amused by the scrum that did a full 180 degree wheel, maintaining pretty much perfect formation, almost in slow motion?
- belgarion
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
Was that the one where Wales were pinged for wheeling? That was funny but they did it twice more later &16th man wrote:Was anyone else amused by the scrum that did a full 180 degree wheel, maintaining pretty much perfect formation, almost in slow motion?
Joubert just kept saying don't do it again when he should have carded 1 of the Welsh props
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
I think that's totally the wrong answer.Digby wrote:The scrum performance for helping a game of rugby was pathetic. The number of scrums which actually restarted the game isn't close to acceptable, it's not even close to poor, they're a giant waste of time, and a waste of time that seemingly results in the random awarding of penalties. I never thought I'd reach this point, but I'm getting close to starting to wonder if we shouldn't have league style scrums if they're going to continue to be such a farce.
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
I do too, but having just watched Scotland Vs France and another total shambles at the scrum I do wonder how long it's got left.Banquo wrote:I think that's totally the wrong answer.Digby wrote:The scrum performance for helping a game of rugby was pathetic. The number of scrums which actually restarted the game isn't close to acceptable, it's not even close to poor, they're a giant waste of time, and a waste of time that seemingly results in the random awarding of penalties. I never thought I'd reach this point, but I'm getting close to starting to wonder if we shouldn't have league style scrums if they're going to continue to be such a farce.
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
big consequences if its effectively got rid of. There is a fundamental issue as to whether its a restart or a contest.Digby wrote:I do too, but having just watched Scotland Vs France and another total shambles at the scrum I do wonder how long it's got left.Banquo wrote:I think that's totally the wrong answer.Digby wrote:The scrum performance for helping a game of rugby was pathetic. The number of scrums which actually restarted the game isn't close to acceptable, it's not even close to poor, they're a giant waste of time, and a waste of time that seemingly results in the random awarding of penalties. I never thought I'd reach this point, but I'm getting close to starting to wonder if we shouldn't have league style scrums if they're going to continue to be such a farce.
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
Right now it's not a restart, and it's not a contest for the ball but for a penalty. I really don't know where any improvement will come from either, there's nothing in the current process which the refs can possibly control to give a reliable platform to restart the game.Banquo wrote:big consequences if its effectively got rid of. There is a fundamental issue as to whether its a restart or a contest.Digby wrote:I do too, but having just watched Scotland Vs France and another total shambles at the scrum I do wonder how long it's got left.Banquo wrote: I think that's totally the wrong answer.
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
has to be a 'collective' deal, alternative is unappetising. 'restart' has a large consequence imo.Digby wrote:Right now it's not a restart, and it's not a contest for the ball but for a penalty. I really don't know where any improvement will come from either, there's nothing in the current process which the refs can possibly control to give a reliable platform to restart the game.Banquo wrote:big consequences if its effectively got rid of. There is a fundamental issue as to whether its a restart or a contest.Digby wrote:
I do too, but having just watched Scotland Vs France and another total shambles at the scrum I do wonder how long it's got left.
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
Yep. the last thing I want is for the pack to suddenly become defined as eight back-rowers with at least three tall ones and one that can throw into a line-out.
- Mellsblue
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
Indeed. Those eight players will also be a lot fresher for not having to push in the scrum meaning less space on the field and greater defence dominance.ad_tigger wrote:Yep. the last thing I want is for the pack to suddenly become defined as eight back-rowers with at least three tall ones and one that can throw into a line-out.
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
Well you could lose some players, say two, and then you'd open more space.Mellsblue wrote:Indeed. Those eight players will also be a lot fresher for not having to push in the scrum meaning less space on the field and greater defence dominance.ad_tigger wrote:Yep. the last thing I want is for the pack to suddenly become defined as eight back-rowers with at least three tall ones and one that can throw into a line-out.
It's because I'd like to keep the scrum I'm so angry about the currently pathetic situation, I'd like to have some hope the game will take some positive steps to address it but I can't see what on earth I'd base that hope on.
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
The refs are perfectly capable of telling the players, "No pushing before the ball comes in, at all. Completely uncontested and anyone that I see looking like they're putting any pressure on before the ball gets free-kicked, then penalised, then yellowed."Digby wrote:Right now it's not a restart, and it's not a contest for the ball but for a penalty. I really don't know where any improvement will come from either, there's nothing in the current process which the refs can possibly control to give a reliable platform to restart the game.Banquo wrote:big consequences if its effectively got rid of. There is a fundamental issue as to whether its a restart or a contest.Digby wrote:
I do too, but having just watched Scotland Vs France and another total shambles at the scrum I do wonder how long it's got left.
I wouldn't read too much into the Scotland v France game - Jackson's a pretty solid ref, but he's hopeless at scrums.
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
It just needs better reffing. Jackson didn't have a bloody clue.Digby wrote:I do too, but having just watched Scotland Vs France and another total shambles at the scrum I do wonder how long it's got left.Banquo wrote:I think that's totally the wrong answer.Digby wrote:The scrum performance for helping a game of rugby was pathetic. The number of scrums which actually restarted the game isn't close to acceptable, it's not even close to poor, they're a giant waste of time, and a waste of time that seemingly results in the random awarding of penalties. I never thought I'd reach this point, but I'm getting close to starting to wonder if we shouldn't have league style scrums if they're going to continue to be such a farce.
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
Can anyone think of one game this season they've thought the scrum has gone well?
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
The refs need to enforce the rules. And if necessary start yellow carding players. Italy gave away multiple scrum penalties against Scotland without the hint of a warning of a yellow.
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
we had one this weekend. Wasps V Tigers was a good contest.Digby wrote:Can anyone think of one game this season they've thought the scrum has gone well?
Overall though, we have a big problem in this aspect of play.
Two things need to happen: the players/coaches mindset must change. trying to milk penalties simply has to stop and packs must push straight. And the refs have to get tougher. First by getting the packs together far quicker and by getting the front rows square. Also, they have to realise that being pushed backwards is not an automatic penalty.
The scrum is an integral part of the game and we must preserve it. At its best its a potent weopon, an opportunity to wear down the opposition and a great base for launching attacks (remember that?)
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
..and clampdown on not straightfivepointer wrote:we had one this weekend. Wasps V Tigers was a good contest.Digby wrote:Can anyone think of one game this season they've thought the scrum has gone well?
Overall though, we have a big problem in this aspect of play.
Two things need to happen: the players/coaches mindset must change. trying to milk penalties simply has to stop and packs must push straight. And the refs have to get tougher. First by getting the packs together far quicker and by getting the front rows square. Also, they have to realise that being pushed backwards is not an automatic penalty.
The scrum is an integral part of the game and we must preserve it. At its best its a potent weopon, an opportunity to wear down the opposition and a great base for launching attacks (remember that?)
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
Can somebody tell me if there has always been binding? I don't remember it ever being mentioned in the 70s and 80s, for example. Might banning it be to the long-term good? I know it has been mentioned before.
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
One of the hilarious things about rugby is that there is this huge area of the game that none (or very few) of the fans/pundits and even seemingly the officials know any thing about.
Every one just watches on as if you are sat around a roulette wheel in a casino and waits.
Every one just watches on as if you are sat around a roulette wheel in a casino and waits.
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
Props used to bind on the arm, on the chest, neck, back or sometimes not at all when looseheads would simply put their left arm on the knee to prevent the TH from pulling them down, or when a TH would turn in their right shoulder to prevent the LH coming up at them. There was allsorts going on in truth but rarely penalised and scrums miraculously mostly stayed up.Oakboy wrote:Can somebody tell me if there has always been binding? I don't remember it ever being mentioned in the 70s and 80s, for example. Might banning it be to the long-term good? I know it has been mentioned before.
The binding requirement is a good one. It does encourage stability and does help the props to push straight. If props are binding properly it does make it harder for them to take down the scrum.
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
More or less every All Black Scrum at the world cup - they were only interested in getting the ball out quick from a stable platform. I'm convinced its a mind set change that is required as well.Digby wrote:Can anyone think of one game this season they've thought the scrum has gone well?
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
See I don't think it was, I can only remember one clean scrum, i.e. that wasn't reset and didn't end with the ref's whistle, and even that one had Robson putting the ball into the 2nd rowfivepointer wrote: we had one this weekend. Wasps V Tigers was a good contest.
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Re: The scrum will be fun on Saturday
Without doubt they could keep the scrum up if they wanted to. What it'll take to change the mindset I don't know, and there's a seeming acceptance of the current situation by the refs and World Rugby anyway.Gloskarlos wrote:More or less every All Black Scrum at the world cup - they were only interested in getting the ball out quick from a stable platform. I'm convinced its a mind set change that is required as well.Digby wrote:Can anyone think of one game this season they've thought the scrum has gone well?