RugbyRebels

Cameo wrote:

Donny osmond wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:
Itoje is a lot more mobile than others, put him somewhere it can be used more
Hardie has had a better 6N than Warburton and a menace,
Can't agree that JD has been stand out or brown , Hogg has been excellent every game and created some great tries

Fair enough. In all honesty I can see your point about all if them, without necessarily agreeing, apart from Hardie. I think he's the best available to us, but he's still a long way behind Warburton.

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i dunno if Hardie is ahead of him but I think Warburton is a little overrated. Has the odd outstanding game but doesnt do enough it a lot of games for me to warrant his reputation. Still a good player but don't think there is a standout 7 at the moment

My Welsh mate reckons he's 'not quite at McCaw level, but not far off'.......

Mikey Brown wrote:Who would you pick at 15 over Hogg?

Is that directed at me? I would pick Hogg. I said Gatland won't.

On current form over the season, the Welsh players in with a shout would be:

Faletau. Saturday was very unusual for him - he has been superb throughout and remains consistently good.
Webb.
Liam Williams
North

Wider squad members would surely include Roberts and AWJ who have shown glimpses of good form alongside some tired looking play.

Is it such a shoe in that Gatland will be coach? His Welsh side, whilst still moderately effective (they are 2nd best this year) don't seem to have moved on or really developed.

The thing with these Lions teams and coaches now is that no one appears to take into account the game plan that will need to be put in place. I can't see Gatball being effective against the All Blacks so I would be tempted to look elsewhere for the coaching team.

AWJ will always be in with a chance because the squad needs a captain and there are very few decent candidates for that role.

Chunks Baws wrote:

Cameo wrote:

Donny osmond wrote: Fair enough. In all honesty I can see your point about all if them, without necessarily agreeing, apart from Hardie. I think he's the best available to us, but he's still a long way behind Warburton.

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i dunno if Hardie is ahead of him but I think Warburton is a little overrated. Has the odd outstanding game but doesnt do enough it a lot of games for me to warrant his reputation. Still a good player but don't think there is a standout 7 at the moment

My Welsh mate reckons he's 'not quite at McCaw level, but not far off'.......

At his best, Warburton is superb. He is not at his best and has looked somewhat average in a few games of late. Once again, the Lions squad selection will come down to a choice of experienced old head and promising younger players.

Sandydragon wrote: At his best, Warburton is superb. He is not at his best and has looked somewhat average in a few games of late. Once again, the Lions squad selection will come down to a choice of experienced old head and promising younger players.

But when we are talking matchday test 23 then I don't think experienced old heads are necessarily required. Mostly, all players on the tour will have decent international experience (say 15+ caps) and most will play at decent club level. As things stand, almost universally (bar 3 or 4 (?)of the likely English tourists) will have beaten New Zealand and none will have won in NZ.

I really hope the Lions coach picks a game plan to suit the players available. Despite the perception the 6N is dull there is lots of great attacking talent that could create a bit of excitement.

Donny osmond wrote: Are you mental? Itoje was mom at 4 and you put him at 6? Hardie over Warburton? 'king Youngs? No one has stood out at 13 apart from JD who's gradually becoming one of the best 13s playing intl rugby? Hogg at 15?
Lay off th sauce brother.

Itoje has played 6 a fair bit for Sarries and what he is good it isn't necessarily constrained by having 4 or 6 on his back.

Picking a 37 man squad would be interesting right now, going by last time, 5 second rows were on tour and picking 5 from the current lot will be tough and the battle will be fun to watch.

If we speculate a possible team, would a 22year old Itoje and 23 year old Gray second row be the youngest pairing to start a Lions test match?

cant be bothered to quote all the links

RE Warburton - living a wee bit on past reputation, he was outstanding until about a year ago and with injuries and the fact Cardiff are garbage he really hasnt had a chance to keep going. I think if he wasnt such a great captain he would have been replaced by Tuperic

Itoje - Again he may disapear of the radar, there has been loads of players who have had a cracking season or 2 and then disapear, i hope not because he was pretty good during the 6N

Hardie - For me he offers a bravery that we dont really see in 7s, the amount of time he goes off the line and swamps the player, other players do this from occasion but usually end up lying on the ground concussed more than Hardie does


Amazingly and I hate to say it but Earls has been good for Ireland

Based on current form the next lions tour is going to make the last tour to NZ look like a complete success.

whatisthejava wrote:cant be bothered to quote all the links

RE Warburton - living a wee bit on past reputation, he was outstanding until about a year ago and with injuries and the fact Cardiff are garbage he really hasnt had a chance to keep going. I think if he wasnt such a great captain he would have been replaced by Tuperic

Itoje - Again he may disapear of the radar, there has been loads of players who have had a cracking season or 2 and then disapear, i hope not because he was pretty good during the 6N

Hardie - For me he offers a bravery that we dont really see in 7s, the amount of time he goes off the line and swamps the player, other players do this from occasion but usually end up lying on the ground concussed more than Hardie does


Amazingly and I hate to say it but Earls has been good for Ireland

Hardie had a couple of Jason White-esq tackles on Saturday. The guy is a machine. I hope some of what he has rubs off on Watson while they are both with Edinburgh.

Tre wrote:Based on current form the next lions tour is going to make the last tour to NZ look like a complete success.

This.

whatisthejava wrote:cant be bothered to quote all the links

RE Warburton - living a wee bit on past reputation, he was outstanding until about a year ago and with injuries and the fact Cardiff are garbage he really hasnt had a chance to keep going. I think if he wasnt such a great captain he would have been replaced by Tuperic

Itoje - Again he may disapear of the radar, there has been loads of players who have had a cracking season or 2 and then disapear, i hope not because he was pretty good during the 6N

Hardie - For me he offers a bravery that we dont really see in 7s, the amount of time he goes off the line and swamps the player, other players do this from occasion but usually end up lying on the ground concussed more than Hardie does


Amazingly and I hate to say it but Earls has been good for Ireland

I know we at Cardiff haven't been very good this year, but please don't blame us for Warburton being off form this year - he has been involved in one match for us all season - when we beat Calvisano 74 - 6 in mid Jan.

Big D wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: At his best, Warburton is superb. He is not at his best and has looked somewhat average in a few games of late. Once again, the Lions squad selection will come down to a choice of experienced old head and promising younger players.

But when we are talking matchday test 23 then I don't think experienced old heads are necessarily required. Mostly, all players on the tour will have decent international experience (say 15+ caps) and most will play at decent club level. As things stand, almost universally (bar 3 or 4 (?)of the likely English tourists) will have beaten New Zealand and none will have won in NZ.

I really hope the Lions coach picks a game plan to suit the players available. Despite the perception the 6N is dull there is lots of great attacking talent that could create a bit of excitement.

I disagree. Ultimately experience is important and there needs to be some in the team, a few players who have experienced lions wins can make a difference in a place like New Zealand, provided they are worthy of their place. I wouldn't suggest playing the last starting 15 just for the sake of it, but if a player is in reasonable form and isn't completely outshone by a less experienced Lions rookie then it makes sense to have some experienced players in the match squad.

Ultimately, this there is a long way to go. But more to the point, most Lions match day XVs picked before the tour don't materialize. The key effort is to pick the wider squad, and here experience is also important, especially if the dirt trackers are going to do their part and put pressure on the likely starting side.

From this years 6N, the squad is likely to be far more balanced than previous, which should stop some of the whining of previous years. Provided the best mix of players that season is selected then there should be no complaints.

The biggest issue at the moment is the prospective coach. Garland has to be a contender, but Im not sure I want my national team disrupted, again, for an entire season. Schmidt hasn't enjoyed a great season either. Jones (I understand) isn't allowed by contract to be involved, so perhaps Scotland can take the pain this time around and lose Cotter for a whole season. or we pick coach from outside of the national teams.

I'm going to be bold and chuck CDP into the mix. He'll oust Denton and /or Strauss for Scotland in the autumn and cement his place in next years 6N.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Tre wrote:Based on current form the next lions tour is going to make the last tour to NZ look like a complete success.

This.

Seconded.

Tre wrote:Based on current form the next lions tour is going to make the last tour to NZ look like a complete success.

I doubt anything could make that last tour of NZ seem like a success. That tour failed so many more ways than the 3 zip beating we took.

I really don't like the idea of it being a present home nations coach in general to be honest.

Edinburgh in Exile wrote:

Tre wrote:Based on current form the next lions tour is going to make the last tour to NZ look like a complete success.

I doubt anything could make that last tour of NZ seem like a success. That tour failed so many more ways than the 3 zip beating we took.

Indeed. That tour almost destroyed the concept of the Lions in one stroke. Losing 3 zip to a good AB team isn't a disgrace for what is effectively a scratch team. But that tour had too many bad memories across the board.

Agree with you Mike Brown regarding the coach. I'd prefer someone who isn't currently coaching one of the HN teams. The big question is who? Also, why does the coach have to be full time for the entire season? Its a big sacrifice for the losing nation.

Sandydragon wrote: Agree with you Mike Brown regarding the coach. I'd prefer someone who isn't currently coaching one of the HN teams. The big question is who? Also, why does the coach have to be full time for the entire season? Its a big sacrifice for the losing nation.

I can't even think of many sensible suggestions of former international coaches.....

I'd be tempted to say Conor O'Shea so that a) Italy get screwed and b) I get to see Eugene implode when Robshaw is made captain.

Mikey Brown wrote:I really don't like the idea of it being a present home nations coach in general to be honest.

Who else is there? The outstanding club candidates that I can think of are Dai Young, Mark McCall, Rob Baxter and Toonie, none of which inspire confidence because they're not ready and have no international experience.

switchskier wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I really don't like the idea of it being a present home nations coach in general to be honest.

Who else is there? The outstanding club candidates that I can think of are Dai Young, Mark McCall, Rob Baxter and Toonie, none of which inspire confidence because they're not ready and have no international experience.

Stuart "culture" Lancaster.

sharvey44 wrote:

switchskier wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I really don't like the idea of it being a present home nations coach in general to be honest.

Who else is there? The outstanding club candidates that I can think of are Dai Young, Mark McCall, Rob Baxter and Toonie, none of which inspire confidence because they're not ready and have no international experience.

Stuart "culture" Lancaster.

I think that he wouldn't be bad choice to be honest. He did a a reasonable job in the beginning with England before losing his way. I suspect there was a degree of undermining by the Twickenham blazerati.

Dacre wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:cant be bothered to quote all the links

RE Warburton - living a wee bit on past reputation, he was outstanding until about a year ago and with injuries and the fact Cardiff are garbage he really hasnt had a chance to keep going. I think if he wasnt such a great captain he would have been replaced by Tuperic

Itoje - Again he may disapear of the radar, there has been loads of players who have had a cracking season or 2 and then disapear, i hope not because he was pretty good during the 6N

Hardie - For me he offers a bravery that we dont really see in 7s, the amount of time he goes off the line and swamps the player, other players do this from occasion but usually end up lying on the ground concussed more than Hardie does


Amazingly and I hate to say it but Earls has been good for Ireland

I know we at Cardiff haven't been very good this year, but please don't blame us for Warburton being off form this year - he has been involved in one match for us all season - when we beat Calvisano 74 - 6 in mid Jan.

If you take internationals out is be surprosed in Warburton has played 6 games a season for at least 3 years.