Saracens v Munster Sat 3pm

[Oakboy]

I know we love to knock Farrell but in about the 14th minute he tried a run on the right which I ought to applaud, at least for intent. Unfortunately, whereas Ford has been gliding like a true athlete recently, Owen looked like an apprentice tart making a debut on high heels. It was totally embarrassing for a so-called world class fly half. None of the commentators said a word about it.

Maybe I’ve misread this, what did he actually do when attempting the break?

He lumbered across the ground at an oblique angle for about 20 metres before being tackled and the ball was recycled. It just looked so clumsy and ineffective. I'm not arguing about whether it was the right decision, nor am I condemning the outcome. As a spectacle, it was embarrassing for his lack of fluidity of movement. About a year ago I opined that he was verging on being muscle-bound and nobody agreed. This feeble effort made him look just that. It was a waddle rather than a glide. I doubt he can keep up with Itoje over distances of more than 10 metres.

[Mellsblue]

Spencer is getting all the praise in the times. Barnes is touting him for England. Farrell is given 8/10 by Jones, though. Billy and Spencer are given 9/10.

[Scrumhead]

I didn’t see the game, but I am pleased to hear Spencer had a good game.

Farrell got 8 in TRP too.

[p/d]

Imagine confronting billy while wearing those shoes.

Nice shoes. Really highlight those tanned pins

[Banquo]

Think it's clear I'm no Farrell fan, but Spencer and he were good in that game for an hour- Faz then had a poor ten minutes missing a penalty and two dodgy kicks....and then was instrumental in Billy's try with a switch of play spotting an overlap on Strettle's wing. Spencer was generally very good, excellent kicking and some nice prompting and passing. If I was to give Faz a hard time, it would be that he was quite deep and often static, but that seemed like a plan, and he executed it well, especially the first 5 minutes of the second half, when he kept the attack going ball in hand a number of times.
Sarries were generally very good, though Munster are a limited side.

[Oakboy]

I was impressed by Spencer, in the main. He has obviously been instructed about how to play so it is pointless to condemn him for excessive box-kicking, for example. I think he looks comfortable under pressure which is vital for a SH. Comparing him with Youngs, I'd say Spencer is significantly quicker across the ground and is more of a physical presence. He zips the ball out rapidly and accurately. I can see no reason why he is not in front of Youngs for England.

[Scrumhead]

Spencer also has a decent running game, he just doesn’t get much chance to show it.

He’s not as exciting as Robson but is a stronger all rounder. If we’re wedded to Farrell at 10 for England, it makes a lot of sense to have Spencer at 9 (Ben not Will).

[Banquo]

Spencer also has a decent running game, he just doesn’t get much chance to show it.

He’s not as exciting as Robson but is a stronger all rounder. If we’re wedded to Farrell at 10 for England, it makes a lot of sense to have Spencer at 9 (Ben not Will).

Spencer has 'suffered' from not starting very much until this season. He's quick, good service and now kicks well. Worth a go.

[p/d]

That was a good solid Sarries performance with their key players putting in tidy shifts. As noted Spencer stood out and Billy was top notch

[Banquo]

Great defence from both teams, very few tackles missed, and Sarries up at 90% made. Itoje and Mako did tons of work. Faz made about twice the number of passes he makes in a normal Sarries performance, so they'd worked a different game plan and it was effective in wearing Munster down.

[Puja]

Spencer also has a decent running game, he just doesn’t get much chance to show it.

He’s not as exciting as Robson but is a stronger all rounder. If we’re wedded to Farrell at 10 for England, it makes a lot of sense to have Spencer at 9 (Ben not Will).

Spencer has 'suffered' from not starting very much until this season. He's quick, good service and now kicks well. Worth a go.

He did turn in some dire performances at the start of the season when he was given the starting jersey regularly and Wigglesworth rightfully took it back. With luck, he's put that behind him and can now make himself Saracens' first choice.

Farrell's drop-goal attempt was inexcusable. I get not everyone can be Jonny, but if you're near the centre of the 22, with a decent attack, and you opt for the drop-goal under little pressure, you need to nail it 10 times out of 10. If you're not capable, then don't choose that option.

Puja

[SerjeantWildgoose]

I'd like to begin by saying that we were comprehensively beaten yesterday and I've no gripe about losing to a better side.

But for someone who has made much of trying to make little of his bigoted views, so flagrantly trumpeted on social media, Vunipola signally failed to understand that less than 72 hours after the murder of a gay journalist in Derry he wasn't going to meet with too much by way of toleration from an Irish support. His triumphalist posturing after his try was fecking grotesque.

Fuck him and all of the intolerant wankers out there who think that they can cloak themselves in religiosity and expect that this excuses bigotry.

That aside, I didn't think any Munster player had a bad game yesterday, its just that everyone of their opposite numbers had a blinder.

(And them shorts and them legs are pure Moyross. The sun never goes to Moyross for fear of getting a hiding. He probably lifted the deck shoes off some hapless tourist who moored up at Arthur's Quay and dandered too far north.)

[Banquo]

Spencer also has a decent running game, he just doesn’t get much chance to show it.

He’s not as exciting as Robson but is a stronger all rounder. If we’re wedded to Farrell at 10 for England, it makes a lot of sense to have Spencer at 9 (Ben not Will).

Spencer has 'suffered' from not starting very much until this season. He's quick, good service and now kicks well. Worth a go.

He did turn in some dire performances at the start of the season when he was given the starting jersey regularly and Wigglesworth rightfully took it back. With luck, he's put that behind him and can now make himself Saracens' first choice.

Farrell's drop-goal attempt was inexcusable. I get not everyone can be Jonny, but if you're near the centre of the 22, with a decent attack, and you opt for the drop-goal under little pressure, you need to nail it 10 times out of 10. If you're not capable, then don't choose that option.

Puja

Which games were these out of interest?

Nailing DG's 10 out of 10 is a very high bar (arf). I was half decent at them, but its not a simple skill. I do agree if you are no good at them, its not worth trying apart from in extremis.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

As Matt Dunning's team mates at the Tahs will testify.

[Puja]

Spencer has 'suffered' from not starting very much until this season. He's quick, good service and now kicks well. Worth a go.

He did turn in some dire performances at the start of the season when he was given the starting jersey regularly and Wigglesworth rightfully took it back. With luck, he's put that behind him and can now make himself Saracens' first choice.

Farrell's drop-goal attempt was inexcusable. I get not everyone can be Jonny, but if you're near the centre of the 22, with a decent attack, and you opt for the drop-goal under little pressure, you need to nail it 10 times out of 10. If you're not capable, then don't choose that option.

Puja

Which games were these out of interest?

Nailing DG's 10 out of 10 is a very high bar (arf). I was half decent at them, but its not a simple skill. I do agree if you are no good at them, its not worth trying apart from in extremis.

I can't provide you chapter and verse unfortunately - too many knocks on the head have done for my memory being that accurate - but I remember he started the majority of the first 7-8 games of the season and I was very excited about him finally being first choice. Some of them he played all right in, some of them he was good, and some he was utterly dire, including a couple in October before the AIs (I think the ERC games?) which left me with the impression that he wasn't a viable alternative for England. Wiggy started the next few for Sarries and ended up getting into the EPS as the safe option.

Also, while I say this as someone who can't get a drop goal from any position, it's a rote skill like goal-kicking and you should expect the same kind of accuracy from in front of the posts from a professional fly-half. Watching Lopez slot two in succession vs Quins was a beautiful sight - they were never going anywhere but through the posts and it was just simple well executed drills.

I wonder how much time is spent on it in practice.

Puja

[Puja]

.But for someone who has made much of trying to make little of his bigoted views, so flagrantly trumpeted on social media, Vunipola signally failed to understand that less than 72 hours after the murder of a gay journalist in Derry he wasn't going to meet with too much by way of toleration from an Irish support. His triumphalist posturing after his try was fecking grotesque.

Fuck him and all of the intolerant wankers out there who think that they can cloak themselves in religiosity and expect that this excuses bigotry.

The commentators pissed me off as well, talking about it having "been a difficult week for him," like it was some out of control event or some flak that was completely out if line. It's not a fluke occurrence that's just happened without any input - he's made the decision to reveal that he thinks gay people are awful and against his god. Fair enough, he can believe what he likes (as long as he's learned his lesson about not promoting that view on social media), but it doesn't mean he's not going to get a backlash from people who think he's a tw*t.

Puja

[Oakboy]

Does freedom of speech allow the right to be prejudiced? When is religious bigotry not accompanied by ignorance? It's all a mucking fuddle if you give it publicity.

I just think that all professional sportsmen should be banned from social media by the terms of their contract, just as they should be banned from drinking alcohol or visiting night clubs unless under supervision. Most of them are too thick to stay out of trouble. Billy is not the brightest., let's face it.

[p/d]

Thought there was already a thread for this bollox

[padprop]

If a whole group of fans boo a player they must accept the consequences that if said player scores a try or gets man of the match they are well within their rights to rub it in their face, regardless of the reason for the booing. It is a natural human reaction.

[Mellsblue]

Thought there was already a thread for this bollox

Don’t worry. The mod will censor him soon enough.

[Mellsblue]

You'd think the Irish have enough religious scandals to be worried about without bothering with small fry like Billy.

[Puja]

Thought there was already a thread for this bollox

Don’t worry. The mod will censor him soon enough.

Freeze peach!

We've all got a history of circumlocuting back to the same tired topics over and over on every thread; I don't see why BillyV's idiocy should be any different.

Puja

[Oakboy]

Thought there was already a thread for this bollox

Don’t worry. The mod will censor him soon enough.

You two darlings are just trying to get me banned again.

[p/d]

Thought there was already a thread for this bollox

Don’t worry. The mod will censor him soon enough.

You two darlings are just trying to get me banned again.

Wouldn’t cross my mind cupcake...... but as for Mells, well, he is a strange fish for sure

[Banquo]

He did turn in some dire performances at the start of the season when he was given the starting jersey regularly and Wigglesworth rightfully took it back. With luck, he's put that behind him and can now make himself Saracens' first choice.

Farrell's drop-goal attempt was inexcusable. I get not everyone can be Jonny, but if you're near the centre of the 22, with a decent attack, and you opt for the drop-goal under little pressure, you need to nail it 10 times out of 10. If you're not capable, then don't choose that option.

Puja

Which games were these out of interest?

Nailing DG's 10 out of 10 is a very high bar (arf). I was half decent at them, but its not a simple skill. I do agree if you are no good at them, its not worth trying apart from in extremis.

I can't provide you chapter and verse unfortunately - too many knocks on the head have done for my memory being that accurate - but I remember he started the majority of the first 7-8 games of the season and I was very excited about him finally being first choice. Some of them he played all right in, some of them he was good, and some he was utterly dire, including a couple in October before the AIs (I think the ERC games?) which left me with the impression that he wasn't a viable alternative for England. Wiggy started the next few for Sarries and ended up getting into the EPS as the safe option.

Also, while I say this as someone who can't get a drop goal from any position, it's a rote skill like goal-kicking and you should expect the same kind of accuracy from in front of the posts from a professional fly-half. Watching Lopez slot two in succession vs Quins was a beautiful sight - they were never going anywhere but through the posts and it was just simple well executed drills.

I wonder how much time is spent on it in practice.

Puja

Fair enough, I don't remember him being dire per se, but thought that Wiggy had always been 1st pick in reality.

Drop goals imo don't quite into the rote skill category of place kicking, where you have a static ball and no realistic time pressure and can do the same routine over and over, albeit from different distances and angle. Dropping goals successfully means a- great technique, b- being able to adapt to the ball coming to you in different heights and at different speeds, c- executing under real (physical) pressure, coming at you from different angles. I'm sure the best ones do practice these skills, but there are many more variations to get used to- so its not always 'simple execution'. Then you have Wilko who slotted them over with either foot quite happily. Not many do it, because its difficult.