Game of Thrones (spoilers)

[Eugene Wrayburn]

It strikes me that it's quite easy to say that X was always going to survive after X survives.

[Banquo]

Get a grip

[Puja]

It strikes me that it's quite easy to say that X was always going to survive after X survives.

Easy to say, but it'd be kinda pointless to lie, would't it? Like I said, glad you're still enjoying it.

Get a grip

Oh thank gods, a cool person, who disdains our interest in something, has arrived. Can I get an autograph?

Puja

[Banquo]

It strikes me that it's quite easy to say that X was always going to survive after X survives.

Easy to say, but it'd be kinda pointless to lie, would't it? Like I said, glad you're still enjoying it.

Get a grip

Oh thank gods, a cool person, who disdains our interest in something, has arrived. Can I get an autograph?

Puja

ooh passive aggressive much. get a grip.

[Mellsblue]

It strikes me that it's quite easy to say that X was always going to survive after X survives.

Easy to say, but it'd be kinda pointless to lie, would't it? Like I said, glad you're still enjoying it.

Get a grip

Oh thank gods, a cool person, who disdains our interest in something, has arrived. Can I get an autograph?

Puja

ooh passive aggressive much. get a grip.

Banquo didn’t sign autographs when he was playing and he will not move away from this narrative now just because he’s bored and wants one last payday. This is as it should be.

[Galfon]

wibble.

[Banquo]

Easy to say, but it'd be kinda pointless to lie, would't it? Like I said, glad you're still enjoying it.


Oh thank gods, a cool person, who disdains our interest in something, has arrived. Can I get an autograph?

Puja

ooh passive aggressive much. get a grip.

Banquo didn’t sign autographs when he was playing and he will not move away from this narrative now just because he’s bored and wants one last payday. This is as it should be.

.

[Puja]

It strikes me that it's quite easy to say that X was always going to survive after X survives.

Easy to say, but it'd be kinda pointless to lie, would't it? Like I said, glad you're still enjoying it.

Get a grip

Oh thank gods, a cool person, who disdains our interest in something, has arrived. Can I get an autograph?

Puja

ooh passive aggressive much. get a grip.

Is that a no to an autograph?

Puja

[Banquo]

Easy to say, but it'd be kinda pointless to lie, would't it? Like I said, glad you're still enjoying it.


Oh thank gods, a cool person, who disdains our interest in something, has arrived. Can I get an autograph?

Puja

ooh passive aggressive much. get a grip.

Is that a no to an autograph?

Puja

Mells beat you to it. Poor plotting.

[Numbers]

Well I quite enjoyed it, I never really took it all that seriously from the start, it had Sean Bean in it ffs and with so many second rate actors it's frankly remarkable it's been as successful as it has (Charles Dance, Johnathan Price, Lena Hedley and Peter Dinklage excepted).

I think if you have read the book then you will be disappointed as I am every time I see an adaptation of a book I've read as it invariably will not be the same way you imagined it, as a tv series it was entertaining.

[Peat]

I think if you have read the book then you will be disappointed as I am every time I see an adaptation of a book I've read as it invariably will not be the same way you imagined it, as a tv series it was entertaining.

While it was running on GRRM's books, it was an astoundingly good adaption - faithful in every way that mattered, wise in knowing how to skip what didn't.

But once they run out of source material, they changed the way they told the story. The early seasons have more in common with the books, storytelling wise, than they do the latter seasons.

On the other hand we have show Euron. He's a dumb pirate whose sole goals seem to be to shag a middle aged woman and kill her brother.

Can anyone seriously say they'd rather have this show version of Euron over the one in the books?

He's Bennett from Commando, which did at least give me a fun five minutes of realising that made Jaime John Matrix and rearranging the Matrix quotes for Jaime

"Where's Bran?"
"I had to let him go".

Meh. Most of the whining is reminiscent of "Why do the baddies shoot less well than Bourne/Bond" or "Why do the baddies explain their evil plans/not execute them straight away" They just do. GoT is a different universe with dragons and magic and therefore different laws of physics. It just isn't ever going to be susceptible to the kind of nitpicking people are subjecting it to.

Having said all that it still irritates me that Arya shouted as she jumped to stab the Night King. Everything else I could wear.

Already been said, but stories have to be internally consistent, even if they are not consistent with reality. And that goes double for Fantasy stories.

And good stories lull the viewers into forgetting to nitpick - or to enjoy doing so, rather than doing it in disgust.

This wasn't a good story. Good on those who enjoyed it, I've enjoyed plenty of poorly told stories, but it is very ineptly executed. And tbh, the fact you're comparing to various other "Shut your brain off and enjoy the show" stories when it was never that for most of the fans for most of the show, speaks volumes about how poorly executed it was imo.

[OptimisticJock]

Well that was shite in the end.

[Puja]

Anyone else think the writers picked Bran to be king just to fuck with the betting companies?

I actually found the madness of Queen Dany to be a lot more satisfying in this one, which made it retroactively more annoying that they screwed up the instigation of it last week. The subtle justifications of "We know what's right," and "We get to choose," would've been stronger still if they hadn't worked so hard to make the burning of King's Landing so unequivocally evil and unjustified by waiting until she'd categorically won, everyone had surrendered, and there was absolutely no provocation or heat of the moment. She's a stronger villain if part of you can see her point and I think they wanted so strongly to sell her act as wicked so as to justify Jon, that they oversold it, and just made it good vs bad.

Puja

[Donny osmond]

What was with the focus on House Stark in the final few minutes? If Sansa, Jon and Arya are going to be the focus of the ending you would've thought their story lines would've had more coherent beginnings and middles?

Anyway, it was as good an ending as this series could have had, but really I should say thanks for making me no longer care about the characters, nor care about the ending, its just a fizzing spluttering squib of an ending to what turned into a damp squib of a series.

Wont go back to it.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

[Stom]

This echoes my thoughts perfectly.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.co ... ron-throne

[Numbers]

Anyone else think the writers picked Bran to be king just to fuck with the betting companies?

I actually found the madness of Queen Dany to be a lot more satisfying in this one, which made it retroactively more annoying that they screwed up the instigation of it last week. The subtle justifications of "We know what's right," and "We get to choose," would've been stronger still if they hadn't worked so hard to make the burning of King's Landing so unequivocally evil and unjustified by waiting until she'd categorically won, everyone had surrendered, and there was absolutely no provocation or heat of the moment. She's a stronger villain if part of you can see her point and I think they wanted so strongly to sell her act as wicked so as to justify Jon, that they oversold it, and just made it good vs bad.

Puja

I thought it was pretty obvious she was a meglomaniac from quite early on, surely when she burnt the Tarly's that was a hint?

[OptimisticJock]

Anyone else think the writers picked Bran to be king just to fuck with the betting companies?

Not just betting companies but everyone in general. It feels as though they've chosen the least popular theories to be purposefully contrary. To the point it didn't matter how the stories and plot lines got there.

[Puja]

Anyone else think the writers picked Bran to be king just to fuck with the betting companies?

I actually found the madness of Queen Dany to be a lot more satisfying in this one, which made it retroactively more annoying that they screwed up the instigation of it last week. The subtle justifications of "We know what's right," and "We get to choose," would've been stronger still if they hadn't worked so hard to make the burning of King's Landing so unequivocally evil and unjustified by waiting until she'd categorically won, everyone had surrendered, and there was absolutely no provocation or heat of the moment. She's a stronger villain if part of you can see her point and I think they wanted so strongly to sell her act as wicked so as to justify Jon, that they oversold it, and just made it good vs bad.

Puja

I thought it was pretty obvious she was a meglomaniac from quite early on, surely when she burnt the Tarly's that was a hint?

It's my opinion that the best villains are those that not only believe they're the good guy, but whom you can kind of see their point if you tilt your head and squint. Burning the Tarlys made a lot of sense from both a Watsonian and a Doylist point of view - they opposed her and rallied forces against her, so she wasn't completely unjustified, while still selling her as a megalomaniac. Reacting to winning a battle by burning innocent peasantry who'd done nothing to provoke her was more of a capricious unrelatable storybook wickedness, rather than the "I'm trying to make a better world by making everyone kneel" madness that they've had so far and which would've been far more interesting.

Apart from anything else, it might've added some suspense to Jon's march towards killing her if she'd remained ambiguously evil, rather than them using the penultimate episode to hang a glowing flashing neon sign saying "Villain" above her head.

Puja

[Stom]

Tbh, it's not even the character development or annoying choices that made it so irritating.

It's that you could fix almost every poor part of the final season with just 4 or 5 extra episodes...

[Peat]

Quite. I hope that the next time HBO - or another TV company - get a writer team saying "We don't want to put in the work necessary", they simply get another writer team.

Anyone else think the writers picked Bran to be king just to fuck with the betting companies?

I actually found the madness of Queen Dany to be a lot more satisfying in this one, which made it retroactively more annoying that they screwed up the instigation of it last week. The subtle justifications of "We know what's right," and "We get to choose," would've been stronger still if they hadn't worked so hard to make the burning of King's Landing so unequivocally evil and unjustified by waiting until she'd categorically won, everyone had surrendered, and there was absolutely no provocation or heat of the moment. She's a stronger villain if part of you can see her point and I think they wanted so strongly to sell her act as wicked so as to justify Jon, that they oversold it, and just made it good vs bad.

Puja

I thought it was pretty obvious she was a meglomaniac from quite early on, surely when she burnt the Tarly's that was a hint?

It's my opinion that the best villains are those that not only believe they're the good guy, but whom you can kind of see their point if you tilt your head and squint. Burning the Tarlys made a lot of sense from both a Watsonian and a Doylist point of view - they opposed her and rallied forces against her, so she wasn't completely unjustified, while still selling her as a megalomaniac. Reacting to winning a battle by burning innocent peasantry who'd done nothing to provoke her was more of a capricious unrelatable storybook wickedness, rather than the "I'm trying to make a better world by making everyone kneel" madness that they've had so far and which would've been far more interesting.

Apart from anything else, it might've added some suspense to Jon's march towards killing her if she'd remained ambiguously evil, rather than them using the penultimate episode to hang a glowing flashing neon sign saying "Villain" above her head.

Puja

I think the whole point was they wanted to make her unambiguously evil come the end, as the focus was how her lust for power ultimately destroyed her, rather than the one final shock of Jon putting her down; I think that maybe they were hoping shock value would come from everyone expecting Arya to do it.

[OptimisticJock]

Yeah, she's shown for a long time that she's hat the mental targ gene in her. It's something else that could be fixed with a few more episodes rather than the accelerated snap we got.

[Stom]

Yeah, she's shown for a long time that she's hat the mental targ gene in her. It's something else that could be fixed with a few more episodes rather than the accelerated snap we got.

It could have been a perfect story as it is also a wonderful commentary on real life politics. She says all the right things. You ignore all the bad things she does because what she says resonates with you. Even when the bad things get worse and worse...

Until she does something that makes you go: Oh Fuck!

Now that's how it should have been. Instead, we got the roasting of the Tarlys and that's it. We should have more of that from her, getting progressively worse, which would then play nicely into King's Landing. It would have shock value and it shouldn't have lasted as long as it did.

But that's one thread.

I was actually thinking about my favourite part of the last episode. Brienne writing in the white book. It's full of emotion and I loved it at the time...but then I got thinking:

You're basically saying her entire character arc is about the redemption of Jaime? That doesn't sit right. And all it needs to change that is for her to take her pen and write at the top of the next page: Ser Brienne of Tarth. Now we finish on her achieving the thing she wanted right from the beginning, the thing denied to her, and she gets the finale fitting to her deeds.

It's a minor detail, but it's that kind of attention to detail that elevates a decent show to a great one.

If seasons 1-6 had been like Season 8, I doubt I would have managed it. It's just like Rome was, or The Tudors...It's kind of fun, but that's it.

Literally every decision made in relation to the FINAL solution makes sense (except Arya, which is blatantly the plot point for a spin-off), it just needed more care and more time to allow the character arcs to actually come to their conclusion OR be denied a conclusion for a REAL reason. Not like Varys suddenly becoming dumb as an ass. More like Qyburn, whose death I completely agreed with: sudden, no thought, just destroyed by his creation in the blink of an eye. That fitted.

Yeah.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Yeah, she's shown for a long time that she's hat the mental targ gene in her. It's something else that could be fixed with a few more episodes rather than the accelerated snap we got.

Accelerated? They've been building it for about 6 series, since before she crossed the narrow sea. It's been her entire rhetoric. Her first option every time has been "burn the shit out of everything with my dragons" and talking her out of it has become noticeably increasingly difficult. There is nothing sudden about her descent.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Yeah, she's shown for a long time that she's hat the mental targ gene in her. It's something else that could be fixed with a few more episodes rather than the accelerated snap we got.

It could have been a perfect story as it is also a wonderful commentary on real life politics. She says all the right things. You ignore all the bad things she does because what she says resonates with you. Even when the bad things get worse and worse...

Until she does something that makes you go: Oh Fuck!

Now that's how it should have been. Instead, we got the roasting of the Tarlys and that's it. We should have more of that from her, getting progressively worse, which would then play nicely into King's Landing. It would have shock value and it shouldn't have lasted as long as it did.

But that's one thread.

I was actually thinking about my favourite part of the last episode. Brienne writing in the white book. It's full of emotion and I loved it at the time...but then I got thinking:

You're basically saying her entire character arc is about the redemption of Jaime? That doesn't sit right. And all it needs to change that is for her to take her pen and write at the top of the next page: Ser Brienne of Tarth. Now we finish on her achieving the thing she wanted right from the beginning, the thing denied to her, and she gets the finale fitting to her deeds.

It's a minor detail, but it's that kind of attention to detail that elevates a decent show to a great one.

If seasons 1-6 had been like Season 8, I doubt I would have managed it. It's just like Rome was, or The Tudors...It's kind of fun, but that's it.

Literally every decision made in relation to the FINAL solution makes sense (except Arya, which is blatantly the plot point for a spin-off), it just needed more care and more time to allow the character arcs to actually come to their conclusion OR be denied a conclusion for a REAL reason. Not like Varys suddenly becoming dumb as an ass. More like Qyburn, whose death I completely agreed with: sudden, no thought, just destroyed by his creation in the blink of an eye. That fitted.

Yeah.

Leaving Brienne focusing on herself really would have been a betrayal of everything we'd seen of a character.

[Peat]

Yeah, she's shown for a long time that she's hat the mental targ gene in her. It's something else that could be fixed with a few more episodes rather than the accelerated snap we got.

Accelerated? They've been building it for about 6 series, since before she crossed the narrow sea. It's been her entire rhetoric. Her first option every time has been "burn the shit out of everything with my dragons" and talking her out of it has become noticeably increasingly difficult. There is nothing sudden about her descent.

Her actions have also consistently for about 6 series shown an extremely high level of compassion for the downtrodden and a commitment to preventing violence against them. She has been ruthless towards her powerful enemies but only them. She put off burning down her enemies in order to save people only a few episodes before going psycho.

So what's more important - words or actions?