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Re: Minute-by-minute - England vs Italy

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:27 am
by Puja
Minute 60:
We don't ruck particularly well (although a pedant/Lee Dickson would complain to the ref that at least one of the two Italians that we need to clear their hands off can't be first man in) and the ball is slower coming back. Italy are miles offside every time though and the ref eventually gives one against them. Lucky too, as Youngs has just thrown a very iffy ball to Kvesic's feet.

We kick for touch.

Minute 61:
Solid lineout and we form a maul. Thankfully, LCD plays the ball away from the back quite quickly, as there are about three Italian players rolling round onto our side, having none of them changed their bind, despite two of them binding onto the third rather than an England player. It's like a human chain or a whip in roller derby. I hate that law with fire, although that's possibly because we as a team seem completely incapable of combatting it.

We play away and decide that, if we're going to pick a 19st winger, we may as well run him at fly-halves for the lols. Italy do quite well on the tackle, but England are now on the 5m line and with quick ball. That is until both LCD and Genge decide to do footwork rather than run straight and we end up with two messy rucks and slower possession. This leads to the trifecta of young talents being too cocky as Cokanasiga carries high and tries to offload over the top, only to get dump tackled by the Italian 14 and lose it forward.

Heinz is on for Youngs and I now feel qualified to answer Digger's question of
Digby wrote:Was Ben Youngs actually pretty decent, bar Italy put precious little pressure on him?
He was generally good, only one error, and provided good service for the forwards running off 9 game that we've got going at the moment. Nice to see him tapping and going, although only one was actively a good decision. Needed to run harder to get to some breakdowns and was maybe a bit tired from tough training earlier in the week. Overall good, but not MotM, no matter what Barnes said. From memory, I'd've given it to May and so far in this rewatch I haven't seen anything to change my mind.

Minute 62:
Italy play away from the base - interesting to note that Wilson is at 8 and Kvesic is playing 7. I know those are natural positions for them and Wilson getting time at 8 pre RWC is useful, but there was speculation that Kevs was seen as a potential 8 option by Eddie, which isn't the case here. Anyway, I noted this because our Kev misses the tackle from the 8 pick - not the behaviour of the messiah. Farrell gets dragged back for a few metres until Wilson can come across to save him. Italy kick to touch.

Nice lineout ball off the top is spun out to Farrell running a hard line - he really is showing a good line in being a running threat himself from 12, rather than just a distributor. I mean, he's not Tuilagi, but he makes 3-4m past the tackle and draws in three players.

Minute 63:
England attack again, alternating runs off 9 and off 10 and we make ground up to the 22m line. Ford and Farrell are working very well together and Faz seems a lot more comfortable with the extra few seconds and the extra bit of space that standing at 12 gives him. Twice in quick succession we make good ground from Farrell showing a wide pass, looking like he's going himself and then popping a shoulder ball to Watson joining the line from full-back. And yet more ground from a lovely offload before the tackle by Lawes, whose hands are underrated. Unfortunately Ford makes his second mistake of the night to kill the momentum - he aims to pass to Sinckler, realised Italy are rushing up, changes his mind halfway through the pass, and ends up throwing it to the tiny invisible man running behind Sinckler. The ball bobbles up and ends up in Marchant's hands, who does a nice dance through traffic to get us up to the 5m line.

Minute 64:
Heinz has been good since coming on with some nice crisp passing, but this one's a stinker as it's fired directly at Ford's ear, forcing him to stop to catch it, and ruining the timing of Cokanasiga's outside running line. May and Curry continue the attack down the right and then the ball comes back left with another iffy pass from Heinz, this time at Sinckler's face. Sinckler goes again from a standing start, but it ends up with a slower ruck as we've not knocked Italy onto the back foot. We regenerate through LCD and then the ball goes wide.

I want to take this moment to illustrate the difference between Ford and Farrell at 10. Earlier in the game, this was Farrell making a right-to-left pass at the gainline:

Image

And here's Ford doing the same:

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Quite apart from Ford being at least 2 metres closer to the defensive line before starting to pass, look at the position of their feet. Farrell is always passing to Lawes. He's committed to it and it's glaringly obvious - if I had the energy to make gifs, then you could see Italy just press up on him with no thought required. If I had to guess with the Ford picture, I'd say it's going to Wilson, but it could just as easily be that he runs himself or that he passes behind Wilson to Farrell (who is out of frame). The defence are scared cause they don't know where the threat is coming from and that's what's keeping them backing off. We aren't half the team without Ford at 10.

As it happens, Ford does go behind Wilson to find Farrell, who tries to run to the outside to draw the last defender, but is felled by an excellent tackle round his ankles and his offload for May to cross is well forwards. In retrospect, if he passes immediately, then Marchant is scoring from a short line, but it would need to have been an instant pass for it not to have been forward and Fazlet's plan would've worked too if it wasn't such an excellent tackle by the Italian winger.

Re: Minute-by-minute - England vs Italy

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:16 pm
by Puja
Minute 65:
Heinz does very well in the face of some average refereeing. Italy get the ball to the 8's feet and Heinz is hovering. As the 8 unbinds, Willi lunges across and grabs his arm to disrupt the pick up. The ref starts, "Wait th..." before cutting himself off as he realises that the 8 has unbound, but Heinz has heard him and starts to pull back, only to realise that he's already buggered the 8-pick and thus may as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb and so tackles the 8 properly. The ref eventually blows and explains that Heinz was legit and it's a knock on. The ref has been very average.

There's a bit of a shoving match over nothing and we fail to get anything done for the rest of the minute.

Minute 66:
The ball again gets stuck under Lawes's feet and again squirts out the back. That's the third or fourth time that has happened, and suggests that maybe Courtney shouldn't be allowed to pack behind the loosehead anymore if he can't get his size 16s out the way of the hook.

Scrappy ball which we recycle. Curry picks a great line off Heinz - the defence is looking at Lawes running close, but Heinz passes across the face to put Curry through a half-gap. Quick ball sees Ford go to the line again and send Ewels on the shoulder. We're only 3m from the line, but unfortunately Cokanasiga decides to pick and go rather than let Heinz have the ball behind him and he is monstered by a couple of horrible tight 5 forwards. Hopefully that is a lesson learned by Joe that he's not good at everything, and next time he should let the scrum half have the godsdamned quick ball when he's calling for it.

To make matters worse, our slow ball is passed to Genge to recycle and he runs upright into a pair of forwards, trying to bosh them away with his meaty forearms. It doesn't work and he is held up. We go back for our penalty from the scrum.

Minute 67:
We kick to the corner, maul again, and there are somehow four Italians who coincidentally have found themselves on our side. One of them is not attached to an English player, just to the three Italians in front of him. This is stupid. England move forward and another Italian swings round from the other side, like it's a salient in WW1 and they're about to cut them off from the rest of the army. Heinz gives up slapping people and seagulling at the ref in favour of taking the ball and having to run around all the completely onside Italians to get back to where he can see other English players.

Unfortunately, we've pre-called the move that the backs will all get involved in the drive and they've come running up and then paused awkwardly as they can see no-one to bind onto on their side that's not wearing a blue shirt, so Heinz doesn't have many options. Ford passes to Watson, who is dragged down by about 5 defenders - Marchant does well to secure the ball initially and then Ford literally picks up an Italian player and tosses him back over onto his side of the ruck - it's quite impressive from such a wee man!

England have worked around the corner well and carry up through Curry and then Kvesic.

Minute 68:
Kevs looks like he's lost it in contact, but the ref gives a slightly generous penalty for the tackler not releasing, so we go back to the corner. We maul again and, while I've had a bit of a go at Ellis Genge this recap, this is very cute work from him this time. Two Italians bind onto him and start pumping their legs to wheel him around to the back, so he simply lets go and steps away from the maul in the direction they're trying to go, letting them all fall over while the maul walks away. He then picks himself up and rejoins at the back.

Italy are still grabbing hold of an Englishman and actively swinging round like they're country dancing, but Genge's manouevre has given a gap for the backs to join and we've got a long arrowhead that goes straight through the only three Italians who are behind the maul and pushing, rather than fannying about on the sides. As a reward for being clever, Genge is the one who comes up with the ball after the grounding.

Minute 69:
Not a lot occurs.

Re: Minute-by-minute - England vs Italy

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:17 pm
by Puja
Minute 70:
Faz kicks the conversion. Italy kick long and, for variety, pick out George Ford. Ball goes into touch 46m out without anyone's feathers getting ruffled. Pointless.

Minute 71:
Ref gets annoyed with England's positioning at the lineout and gives a free-kick. Italy tap and go, but they go steadily backwards in attack and are now in their own half. Some good tackles from Kvesic here though.

Minute 72:
Italy aren't looking threatening until a cock-up between Genge and Heinz. Heinz is in at guard on the left of the ruck, Genge is first man out. Ellis charges up on Hayward and gets easily stepped on his inside, but Heinz hasn't gone up with him or in fact acknowledged that he's currently part of the defensive line - he's gone sweeping. Not sure who's most at fault here. Pressing always goes from in to out, so if the man inside you hasn't rushed up, you shouldn't either, especially if you're going to do it as ineptly as Genge just did. On the other hand, where the hell did Heinz think he was going?!

Sinckler saves me from having to think any harder on the matter by making the cover tackle before Hayward gets far and some more insipid Italian attack means that they're soon back where they started. Eventually Braley box kicks and finds Watson who calls the mark 5m from touch.

Minute 73:
LCD goes off injured, making the decision not to play Singleton for a single minute at hooker in these warm-ups look like it'll really pay off. Watson clears long to touch and Italy are back near the halfway again. Lawes gets a hand on the Italian lineout without any lifter at all, just pure vertical jump, and you've got to admire that. Sadly it's not rewarded as Italy just get the rebound under control.

The Italian 9 looks like he's setting up for a box-kick before he gets a call to play and passes it out to Sisi, who is met by Lawes and Genge, who join in on opposite sides of his ribcage in perfect technique, pumping their legs to drive him back 5 metres before he can finally bring himself to ground. Lawes is then up and over the ball and, while he is forcefully removed by the Italians, he's dumped away from the ruck leaving no-one present over the ball, meaning the offside line is just at the back of the tackled player. Sinckler can thus stand a few feet away from the scrum-half and casually charge down the kick - he looks offside, but he's definitely not. Sinck regathers and in brought down just shy of the Italian 10m line.

Minute 74:
England go wide and a couple of swift passes sees us going down the touchline. We're short on space though and Watson does very well to support Cokanasiga by going out into touch and then attaching onto him from that side so he can oppose the Italians trying to drive him into touch. Big Joe makes landfall just inside the field of play.

Heinz makes a very nice pass across, Ford puts in another, and Sinckler is playing the Farrell role of second playmaker (and frankly, has better body-positioning than the picture of Farrell from earlier). He chooses the shoulder ball and Lawes goes through a half gap. Sinckler's then there following up to clear the ruck and it's lovely quick, clean ball for Heinz again.

Ford feints for the short runners and pulls it back for Faz, Faz feints for the long ball to May which draws two players out there to cover and the shoulder ball to Watson sends him walking through the gap and over the line.

Everyone deserves plaudits for that try - Sinckler's hands were lovely, Lawes ran hard and straight, good rucking got quick ball, good passing from Heinz and Ford to get Farrell into position (and convincing dummy lines from Genge and Curry, who didn't actively take their men off the ball in a way that would get penalised, but made sure they made contact enough to disrupt them covering), May presenting enough of a threat on his own that two Italians feel they need to rush over to him, and Watson timing his entry into the line perfectly. That was very, very nice.

Re: Minute-by-minute - England vs Italy

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:17 pm
by Puja
Minute 75:
Sinckler goes off "injured". I thought he was actually injured first time I watched this and crapped myself, but on replay, he's clearly "injured" and we just want to bring Marler back on at tighthead. Naughty.

Minute 76:
Farrell kicks the conversion well. Italy have some kind of brain fade and kick to compete instead. It doesn't help them - they pick out an England lifting pod and Ewels takes it easily.

Minute 77:
Heinz box-kicks up to halfway and it's a lovely effort - landing 5m in from touch and perfectly placed for May to compete and take the ball. The ball is passed into midfield and Faz has a bit of indecision before deciding to carry it in. It's scrappy possession and Ford's kick from the next phase is touched by an Italian hand. It bobbles to the new Italian full-back who boots it back to us. May passes to Ford, who puts up the garryowen for May to chase - he can't quite take, but he does enough to put the Italian off and the ball bounces to Wilson in support.

Quick ball and Italy rush up on Ford - he gets the ball away to Curry and the failed attempt to take Ford has left a bit of space outside if Curry passes... which he doesn't. This actually hasn't been a very good game for TCurry. I mean, it's not actively bad, but he's been off colour. I don't know playing 6 suits him.

Minute 78:
George fumbles on a run off 9 and Italy have a scrum. Can Marler hack it at tighthead?

Minute 79:
The television director thinks that we would prefer to see moodily lit pictures of Jack Singleton looking pensive, rather than the play that's happening, so no news on Marler's ability to scrum on his off side. It resets and then the ref gives a penalty because of a technical offence at the engage, so he gets about 1 second of actual engagement at tighthead. Good experiment guys!

Re: Minute-by-minute - England vs Italy

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:17 pm
by Puja
Minute 80:
Italy's lineout goes well and gets ball off the top, but then Benvenuti tries to step inside Kvesic and ends up being lucky to hold onto the ball. More tackling practice ensues.

Minute 81:
More tackling practice. Italy look uninspired and are going steadily backwards, until Cokanasiga reacts to an incipient overlap by charging to try and catch someone man-and-ball. He doesn't make it and Italy make ground down the wing until Ford gets back to cover. Italy get quick ball and Genge and George need a slap for letting Allan go between them. Sadly for Italy, a lock is playing scrum-half at the resulting breakdown and the ball hits the deck. Italy recover and our defensive line is very ragged. Farrell and Marchant are running to cover the overlap out wide, so Bisegni pops an inside ball back to Hayward who is through a gap.

Minute 82:
It matters not, as Hayward is alone amidst English players. He goes for a hopeful chip and chase, which JoeC gathers for the mark. After a brief discussion, England decide that they'd rather not risk injury by playing on (no matter how much Clive "I always think we should try for a drop goal" Woodward might want them to) and he boots it into the stands.

Re: Minute-by-minute - England vs Italy

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:34 pm
by Timbo
Puja wrote:Two Italians bind onto him and start pumping their legs to wheel him around to the back, so he simply lets go and steps away from the maul in the direction they're trying to go, letting them all fall over while the maul walks away. He then picks himself up and rejoins at the back.
I’ve thought that this is a perfectly good and legitimate way of dealing with the current maul shenanigans for a while. This whole “not changing bind (while often actually changing bind multiple times)” and swimming round the side is bullshit. If you’re on the attacking team in the maul and a defender tries to pull you round the back so he can act as an anchor and/or stop the 9 getting to the ball, just literally unbind yourself for a second and re-bind- if the defender doesn’t immediately let go once your bound back on he’s offside.

You’d need a discussion with the refs beforehand so they were looking for it, but it would potentially be worth it cos the maul is getting killed as an attacking weapon at the moment.

(Apols for the amount of times I’ve used the word bind, btw :P )

Re: Minute-by-minute - England vs Italy

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:10 pm
by Danno
You made the last fifteen minutes sound like they're worth a rewatch. Cheers.