England vs South Africa - RWC final

[Puja]

Injury updates today and it's all positive (aside from Heinz). Eddie says May, Farrell, Sinckler, and Watson are going to take a full part in training tomorrow. Apparently Nowell is fit as well, although I think we're all taking that with a pinch of salt.

Assuming that's all true, I'd name the same starting XV again, with only Spencer for Heinz and Nowell/Cokanasiga on the bench for Joseph. I don't see any value in changing anything - let South Africa react to us, not vice versa.

Puja

[fivepointer]

Wouldnt be surprised if Nowell makes the 23 ahead of JJ. That and the enforced change at SH are the only changes I can see.

[Banquo]

Injury updates today and it's all positive (aside from Heinz). Eddie says May, Farrell, Sinckler, and Watson are going to take a full part in training tomorrow. Apparently Nowell is fit as well, although I think we're all taking that with a pinch of salt.

Assuming that's all true, I'd name the same starting XV again, with only Spencer for Heinz and Nowell/Cokanasiga on the bench for Joseph. I don't see any value in changing anything - let South Africa react to us, not vice versa.

Puja

Risky with May, I'd suggest.

[Scrumhead]

I’m not sure on the latest is with Kolbe, but he and May might both be sub par.

If we want a replacement winger and Nowell is fit, I’d take him over Big Joe.

[Mikey Brown]

What is risky? I’d assume that’s his reason for having a winger on the bench.

Picking a winger to cover who has barely played is a concern though. Also seems very harsh on Joseph but he just hasn’t been given the chance to show much.

[Puja]

Injury updates today and it's all positive (aside from Heinz). Eddie says May, Farrell, Sinckler, and Watson are going to take a full part in training tomorrow. Apparently Nowell is fit as well, although I think we're all taking that with a pinch of salt.

Assuming that's all true, I'd name the same starting XV again, with only Spencer for Heinz and Nowell/Cokanasiga on the bench for Joseph. I don't see any value in changing anything - let South Africa react to us, not vice versa.

Puja

Risky with May, I'd suggest.

Why risky? If he's fit, he's the best in the world and he'll have had another week to get over him hamstring (the injury this week wasa dead leg to his quad). It's not like we've got another game after this one - worst case scenario he breaks down and we've hopefully got a winger on the bench.

Puja

[Digby]

Precious little love so far for Singleton and Francis.

[Banquo]

Injury updates today and it's all positive (aside from Heinz). Eddie says May, Farrell, Sinckler, and Watson are going to take a full part in training tomorrow. Apparently Nowell is fit as well, although I think we're all taking that with a pinch of salt.

Assuming that's all true, I'd name the same starting XV again, with only Spencer for Heinz and Nowell/Cokanasiga on the bench for Joseph. I don't see any value in changing anything - let South Africa react to us, not vice versa.

Puja

Risky with May, I'd suggest.

Why risky? If he's fit, he's the best in the world and he'll have had another week to get over him hamstring (the injury this week wasa dead leg to his quad). It's not like we've got another game after this one - worst case scenario he breaks down and we've hopefully got a winger on the bench.

Puja

Risky having him training 3 days after limping off with what I assumed was a hammy injury. Should have been specific

[p/d]

Hope Spencer gets to play in a tight fitting shirt, like Donald had to

[Puja]

Risky with May, I'd suggest.

Why risky? If he's fit, he's the best in the world and he'll have had another week to get over him hamstring (the injury this week wasa dead leg to his quad). It's not like we've got another game after this one - worst case scenario he breaks down and we've hopefully got a winger on the bench.

Puja

Risky having him training 3 days after limping off with what I assumed was a hammy injury. Should have been specific

Ah, fair enough - makes sense. The article I read said they had the day off Sunday and Monday was just light recovery and walk-throughs. I'd like to hope the whole week is relatively light, as there's surely not much to be gained from weights or fitness sessions.

Precious little love so far for Singleton and Francis.

Nor McConnochie.

Puja

[Banquo]

Why risky? If he's fit, he's the best in the world and he'll have had another week to get over him hamstring (the injury this week wasa dead leg to his quad). It's not like we've got another game after this one - worst case scenario he breaks down and we've hopefully got a winger on the bench.

Puja

Risky having him training 3 days after limping off with what I assumed was a hammy injury. Should have been specific

Ah, fair enough - makes sense. The article I read said they had the day off Sunday and Monday was just light recovery and walk-throughs. I'd like to hope the whole week is relatively light, as there's surely not much to be gained from weights or fitness sessions.


Puja

always a tricky one, as you do need to properly stress test the hammy before the game, assuming it was a minor strain originally. I am still perturbed at having so many back three players in the squad (qed on scrum halves), yet still not having a fully fit/trusted wing complement.

[Renniks]

Risky with May, I'd suggest.

Why risky? If he's fit, he's the best in the world and he'll have had another week to get over him hamstring (the injury this week wasa dead leg to his quad). It's not like we've got another game after this one - worst case scenario he breaks down and we've hopefully got a winger on the bench.

Puja

Risky having him training 3 days after limping off with what I assumed was a hammy injury. Should have been specific

Reports were that it was a dead leg not a hamstring… I'm not sure I trust it but if that's the case - cool!

[Banquo]

Why risky? If he's fit, he's the best in the world and he'll have had another week to get over him hamstring (the injury this week wasa dead leg to his quad). It's not like we've got another game after this one - worst case scenario he breaks down and we've hopefully got a winger on the bench.

Puja

Risky having him training 3 days after limping off with what I assumed was a hammy injury. Should have been specific

Reports were that it was a dead leg not a hamstring… I'm not sure I trust it but if that's the case - cool!

yep, just caught up. Did he pick that up before being hounded down by Scott 'Bolt' Barrett? If not, I definitely don't trust it.

[Which Tyler]

I thought he went in with a slightly dodgy hamstring that he didn't quite trust, but went off with a deadleg picked up during the match.

As long as he didn't aggravate the hammy on Saturday, then I've no problem with a light training load today.

[Banquo]

I thought he went in with a slightly dodgy hamstring that he didn't quite trust, but went off with a deadleg picked up during the match.

As long as he didn't aggravate the hammy on Saturday, then I've no problem with a light training load today.

It was full training tomorrow I was remarking on. You and I know that hammy's need a fair time to recover; he clearly didn't trust it Saturday.

all speculation obvs, but England will want to keep the situation as murky as possible I'd think.

[Digby]

About the only reason for training I can see is to given the players something to focus on so they don't start to waste emotional energy on looking ahead to the final quite as early. But even then I'd be happy with a walkthrough only process

[Digby]

Nor McConnochie.

Puja

Who?

[Banquo]

About the only reason for training I can see is to given the players something to focus on so they don't start to waste emotional energy on looking ahead to the final quite as early. But even then I'd be happy with a walkthrough only process

I'd think they need to do full fitness tests on a few of em, but that's by the by.....though Eddie and Mitchell also may be thinking about some tactical changes which might need small sided run throughs under pressure.

[Digby]

About the only reason for training I can see is to given the players something to focus on so they don't start to waste emotional energy on looking ahead to the final quite as early. But even then I'd be happy with a walkthrough only process

I'd think they need to do full fitness tests on a few of em, but that's by the by.....though Eddie and Mitchell also may be thinking about some tactical changes which might need small sided run throughs under pressure.

All they'll look at really are some specific things to SA you'd assume. The players will be showing the impact of so many tests by now even missing the France game, they've been in camp for months, so why make them do a standard series of drills. Okay John Wells would have had them grinding the work out, but Eddie will want to win

I suspect you're right they will be done at pace, maybe just a few minutes at a time, maybe that's for the best to give the players a chance to blow off some steam. But I'm not going to complain if they do only do walkthroughs and lose, or at least I wouldn't complain about not going full on in training at this stage of a WC

[Banquo]

About the only reason for training I can see is to given the players something to focus on so they don't start to waste emotional energy on looking ahead to the final quite as early. But even then I'd be happy with a walkthrough only process

I'd think they need to do full fitness tests on a few of em, but that's by the by.....though Eddie and Mitchell also may be thinking about some tactical changes which might need small sided run throughs under pressure.

All they'll look at really are some specific things to SA you'd assume. The players will be showing the impact of so many tests by now even missing the France game, they've been in camp for months, so why make them do a standard series of drills. Okay John Wells would have had them grinding the work out, but Eddie will want to win

I suspect you're right they will be done at pace, maybe just a few minutes at a time, maybe that's for the best to give the players a chance to blow off some steam. But I'm not going to complain if they do only do walkthroughs and lose, or at least I wouldn't complain about not going full on in training at this stage of a WC

well yes, as highlighted.

And I meant fit to start tests, rather than 'measuring fitness levels' which would be pointless.

[Digby]

well yes, as highlighted.

And I meant fit to start tests, rather than 'measuring fitness levels' which would be pointless.

Hah, it didn't even vaguely occur to me you meant actual fitness tests, I'm willing in advance to say even Wells wouldn't want that level of insanity. We might get a French scenario if that happened with the players going on strike

There's not I assume much they can do this week that adds to the months in camp. And whilst not having done anything like this I cannot imagine the players are mentally going to take in much detail, they're way more professional now than when Geech had that rather sensible line about players will not remember the details of what you say when in the heat of a match but they will remember how you made them feel, but even with players getting way much more detail given to them now if there's a week to keep it simple this would be it.

I'm sat on a comfy seat in a warm room, I've had some nice cups of tea and a nice bit of sheperds pie for lunch, and I can feel my adrenaline levels are way above normal for a normal/boring day. That's going to be the bigger part of the week for me, SA back in '07 were a much better side than us but nearly blew it not being right mentally.

[Banquo]

well yes, as highlighted.

And I meant fit to start tests, rather than 'measuring fitness levels' which would be pointless.

Hah, it didn't even vaguely occur to me you meant actual fitness tests, I'm willing in advance to say even Wells wouldn't want that level of insanity. We might get a French scenario if that happened with the players going on strike

There's not I assume much they can do this week that adds to the months in camp. And whilst not having done anything like this I cannot imagine the players are mentally going to take in much detail, they're way more professional now than when Geech had that rather sensible line about players will not remember the details of what you say when in the heat of a match but they will remember how you made them feel, but even with players getting way much more detail given to them now if there's a week to keep it simple this would be it.

I'm sat on a comfy seat in a warm room, I've had some nice cups of tea and a nice bit of sheperds pie for lunch, and I can feel my adrenaline levels are way above normal for a normal/boring day. That's going to be the bigger part of the week for me, SA back in '07 were a much better side than us but nearly blew it not being right mentally.

Maybe, but we've subtly changed a few details game on game; maybe they have already rehearsed the 'SA plan'. But looking at how SA played v Wales, I'd think they want to make sure our ball doesn't get slowed as much, so maybe clearing more physically, and then how to get into that very vulnerable right side of the SA defence.

[Tigger]

Good news if Tom Curry gets injured in training....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50207150

Could always swap them at half time....

[Stom]

Multiple players playing 9 and sub 2sec rucks. Using our frontrow to take it to the line then offload back, taking a couple of defenders out. Spreading the ball quickly to get their big pack running.

[Banquo]

sub 2sec rucks..

this is the bit Wales struggled with...