Team news for Ireland.

[Banquo]

I think you could move Slade to 12 and he’d not skip a beat, especially with Manu at 13.

I'd think, though I'd be a tad worried about their defence, but then no more so than Faz/Manu. Be a nice mix-n'match combo; could still use Manu on the bosh from the lineout say, and then have a second distributor to take advantage of any misalignments in defence.

[Timbo]

I wonder what Eddies preferred midfield is when everyone is fit. I would guess it’s Faz at 10 with Slade/Manu in the centres, although he had that option in the World Cup semi and final and he didn’t pick it. Although he has expressed regret in not doing so, so....

[Oakboy]

Yes. and likely should have been doing it for years

While not quite as outré as Itoje or Curry at 8, it is the same principle - square peg for round hole that it never normally fills, on the basis that you think he's potentially got the skills for it, albeit very much unproven.

Puja

Nowhere near, and he has actually played there, as well as 10. He fulfils the role of a 2nd 5/8th often at Chiefs too. I agree that lobbing him there for England is about the same as putting Manu at 12....... You have identified the core issue though- my point is that should have been his position from the start

Theoretically, had Slade played all the games at 12 that Farrell has, we could guess that he'd have become far and away the better IC of the two. Unfortunately, though, much as I like Slade and dislike Farrell, the latter has one significantly superior attribute: he rarely gets injured. Slade and Tuilagi, on the other hand . . . . .

[Banquo]

I wonder what Eddies preferred midfield is when everyone is fit. I would guess it’s Faz at 10 with Slade/Manu in the centres, although he had that option in the World Cup semi and final and he didn’t pick it. Although he has expressed regret in not doing so, so....

I think he likes Ford at 10 and Faz at 12 tbh. Given my rambling on the other thread about his rugby upbringing alongside the Ellas, its a bit of an odd one- that said, he is a coach who believes in cutting his cloth according to what is available/perceived strengths, and he is clear what he believes the 'English way' is- I'm not sure I agree that this is the way to take on all comers tbh.

[morepork]

I think you could move Slade to 12 and he’d not skip a beat, especially with Manu at 13.

I'd think, though I'd be a tad worried about their defence, but then no more so than Faz/Manu. Be a nice mix-n'match combo; could still use Manu on the bosh from the lineout say, and then have a second distributor to take advantage of any misalignments in defence.

Kind of hard to defend the 12 channel when you are at the bottom of a ruck playing Super Flanker 3000 isn't it? Farrell is headless chook.

[Banquo]

I think you could move Slade to 12 and he’d not skip a beat, especially with Manu at 13.

I'd think, though I'd be a tad worried about their defence, but then no more so than Faz/Manu. Be a nice mix-n'match combo; could still use Manu on the bosh from the lineout say, and then have a second distributor to take advantage of any misalignments in defence.

Kind of hard to defend the 12 channel when you are at the bottom of a ruck playing Super Flanker 3000 isn't it? Farrell is headless chook.

Headless chook indeed.

[Puja]

Yes. and likely should have been doing it for years

While not quite as outré as Itoje or Curry at 8, it is the same principle - square peg for round hole that it never normally fills, on the basis that you think he's potentially got the skills for it, albeit very much unproven.

Puja

Nowhere near, and he has actually played there, as well as 10. He fulfils the role of a 2nd 5/8th often at Chiefs too. I agree that lobbing him there for England is about the same as putting Manu at 12....... You have identified the core issue though- my point is that should have been his position from the start

He has played there once for England, before the 2015 RWC, never plays there for Exeter, and very rarely stands first man outside the 10 for them either (they like a bit of bosh at 12). I agree that he could probably adapt and that it should have been his position from the start, but the fact still remains that he has little to no experience there, and none of any recent vintage.

Puja

[Banquo]

While not quite as outré as Itoje or Curry at 8, it is the same principle - square peg for round hole that it never normally fills, on the basis that you think he's potentially got the skills for it, albeit very much unproven.

Puja

Nowhere near, and he has actually played there, as well as 10. He fulfils the role of a 2nd 5/8th often at Chiefs too. I agree that lobbing him there for England is about the same as putting Manu at 12....... You have identified the core issue though- my point is that should have been his position from the start

He has played there once for England, before the 2015 RWC, never plays there for Exeter, and very rarely stands first man outside the 10 for them either (they like a bit of bosh at 12). I agree that he could probably adapt and that it should have been his position from the start, but the fact still remains that he has little to no experience there, and none of any recent vintage.

Puja

He's often at second receiver in phase play, they mix it up quite a lot, and also at first receiver in a split field. We are agreeing fundamentally, but I don't think its entirely a square peg in a round hole.

[Oakboy]

While not quite as outré as Itoje or Curry at 8, it is the same principle - square peg for round hole that it never normally fills, on the basis that you think he's potentially got the skills for it, albeit very much unproven.

Puja

Nowhere near, and he has actually played there, as well as 10. He fulfils the role of a 2nd 5/8th often at Chiefs too. I agree that lobbing him there for England is about the same as putting Manu at 12....... You have identified the core issue though- my point is that should have been his position from the start

He has played there once for England, before the 2015 RWC, never plays there for Exeter, and very rarely stands first man outside the 10 for them either (they like a bit of bosh at 12). I agree that he could probably adapt and that it should have been his position from the start, but the fact still remains that he has little to no experience there, and none of any recent vintage.

Puja

The trouble is, Puja, that Jones is rewriting the textbook in his orgasm of obstinacy. Daly at FB, Curry at 8, etc., etc., . . .

So, bollix to his club record, why NOT Slade at 12, in that context?

If we are honest, it is just Jones, as an old has-been really, doing whatever he wants to do for Jones, no matter how wrong it is for England. He needs to go, and soon.

[Which Tyler]

He's often at second receiver in phase play, they mix it up quite a lot, and also at first receiver in a split field. We are agreeing fundamentally, but I don't think its entirely a square peg in a round hole.

If IC is a round hole, then Slade is a round peg, who's been jammed into square holes for so much of his career they've planed edges into him.
Everything about his abilities, and the way he plays the game makes him an IC - except his club systems which don't allow him to play there.

Slade is an OC in the same way that Simmonds or Kvesic are #8s
Is there any other team who regularly plays the best distributor in their backline at OC?

[Banquo]

He's often at second receiver in phase play, they mix it up quite a lot, and also at first receiver in a split field. We are agreeing fundamentally, but I don't think its entirely a square peg in a round hole.

If IC is a round hole, then Slade is a round peg, who's been jammed into square holes for so much of his career they've planed edges into him.
Everything about his abilities, and the way he plays the game makes him an IC - except his club systems which don't allow him to play there.

Probably . Though as above, the club system does use him a fair bit as a midfield distributor (as opposed to wider).

[Puja]

He's often at second receiver in phase play, they mix it up quite a lot, and also at first receiver in a split field. We are agreeing fundamentally, but I don't think its entirely a square peg in a round hole.

If IC is a round hole, then Slade is a round peg, who's been jammed into square holes for so much of his career they've planed edges into him.
Everything about his abilities, and the way he plays the game makes him an IC - except his club systems which don't allow him to play there.

Slade is an OC in the same way that Simmonds or Kvesic are #8s
Is there any other team who regularly plays the best distributor in their backline at OC?

Saracens with Lozowski? And those two clubs have had a little bit of success in the English game of late.

Puja

[jngf]

He's often at second receiver in phase play, they mix it up quite a lot, and also at first receiver in a split field. We are agreeing fundamentally, but I don't think its entirely a square peg in a round hole.

If IC is a round hole, then Slade is a round peg, who's been jammed into square holes for so much of his career they've planed edges into him.
Everything about his abilities, and the way he plays the game makes him an IC - except his club systems which don't allow him to play there.

Slade is an OC in the same way that Simmonds or Kvesic are #8s
Is there any other team who regularly plays the best distributor in their backline at OC?

Saracens with Lozowski? And those two clubs have had a little bit of success in the English game of late.

Puja

and of them’s diversified into rather exotic player pension schemes

[Mellsblue]

He's often at second receiver in phase play, they mix it up quite a lot, and also at first receiver in a split field. We are agreeing fundamentally, but I don't think its entirely a square peg in a round hole.

If IC is a round hole, then Slade is a round peg, who's been jammed into square holes for so much of his career they've planed edges into him.
Everything about his abilities, and the way he plays the game makes him an IC - except his club systems which don't allow him to play there.

Slade is an OC in the same way that Simmonds or Kvesic are #8s
Is there any other team who regularly plays the best distributor in their backline at OC?

Saracens with Lozowski? And those two clubs have had a little bit of success in the English game of late.

Puja

Glos had 12T at 13 last season. So, that’s the top 3.

[Spiffy]

All good midfielders should have basic rugby skills - passing, kicking, defence, vision, a bit of gas etc. In fact all backs at the international level should have these skills. So at a pinch they should be able to do a decent job in more or less any position behind the 10 with a bit of lead time. In days gone by, teams often selected a right- and left- centre combination and that's how they lined up all game. I suppose that all changed with the advent of the boshing 12, rather than the traditional playmaking footballer, a couple of generations ago. Select the biggest lump you can find and ask him to run straight at his opponent get himself tackled without passing the ball, and recycle . If he makes a metre it's a success.
Anyway back to Slade - he has always looked a natural ball playing 12 to me, and with a good left boot. I still think he would make a success of the position, given a reasonable lead time (but not that much) to make the transition. Could he be any worse than Farrell, even if pitched in at 12 next week?

[Mikey Brown]

Wow. We’re back here. How did that happen?

I’ve given up hope on it. But always felt if we invested as much time in Slade at 12 as Farrell he would be twice the player by now.

[p/d]

DJ Hape would walk into a Jones side, without any evidence his form warranted it. Jones dragged Francis over and straight in for exactly the same presumed attributes.

Our midfield is muddled and Farrell will remain first choice 12 until he finds a Manu with the ball handling skills of Slade... step up one time wing now impenetrable fullback Banahan

[Epaminondas Pules]

Slade at 12? Where he's played maybe 5 times in his entire career including schoolboy rugby presumably because he can pass and kick, as opposed to playing him at 13 where he has been, you know, kinda good. That said it opens the midfield quandary over bringing Manu in one and then dropping Ford to the bench. What Jones intimated he should've played in the Final.

One thing they could consider, if he's fit, is playing Slade at 15 purely based on EJ's use of him in the RWC. I'm not sure I'm a fan of trying it, but then would it be worse than what we have today.

[jngf]

DJ Hape would walk into a Jones side, without any evidence his form warranted it. Jones dragged Francis over and straight in for exactly the same presumed attributes.

Our midfield is muddled and Farrell will remain first choice 12 until he finds a Manu with the ball handling skills of Slade... step up one time wing now impenetrable fullback Banahan

Banahan at 12 - interesting, seems a long time since he last played test rugby

[jngf]

Slade at 12? Where he's played maybe 5 times in his entire career including schoolboy rugby presumably because he can pass and kick, as opposed to playing him at 13 where he has been, you know, kinda good. That said it opens the midfield quandary over bringing Manu in one and then dropping Ford to the bench. What Jones intimated he should've played in the Final.

One thing they could consider, if he's fit, is playing Slade at 15 purely based on EJ's use of him in the RWC. I'm not sure I'm a fan of trying it, but then would it be worse than what we have today.

Suspect ‘chocks away’ is in the cockpit for 15 for time being - wilco, over and out!

[Oakboy]

Slade at 12? Where he's played maybe 5 times in his entire career including schoolboy rugby presumably because he can pass and kick, as opposed to playing him at 13 where he has been, you know, kinda good. That said it opens the midfield quandary over bringing Manu in one and then dropping Ford to the bench. What Jones intimated he should've played in the Final.

One thing they could consider, if he's fit, is playing Slade at 15 purely based on EJ's use of him in the RWC. I'm not sure I'm a fan of trying it, but then would it be worse than what we have today.

I think Slade could be better than Daly at FB but the long-term best option for the position is still Watson.

Jones's use of Daly there has curbed his attacking positional skills as he had to concentrate on his defensive ones. Daly needs to rove. I think seeing Daly rediscover his form on the wing is one of our best hopes for improving the attack provided that Jones keeps him there. It is the single admission of stubborn stupidity so far.

[Stom]

Slade at 12? Where he's played maybe 5 times in his entire career including schoolboy rugby presumably because he can pass and kick, as opposed to playing him at 13 where he has been, you know, kinda good. That said it opens the midfield quandary over bringing Manu in one and then dropping Ford to the bench. What Jones intimated he should've played in the Final.

One thing they could consider, if he's fit, is playing Slade at 15 purely based on EJ's use of him in the RWC. I'm not sure I'm a fan of trying it, but then would it be worse than what we have today.

Slade was only at 15 a short while in the WC, but I thought he looked superb there when he joined the line. His decision making of where to enter the line was superb, though a very limited sample.

[Digby]

DJ Hape would walk into a Jones side, without any evidence his form warranted it. Jones dragged Francis over and straight in for exactly the same presumed attributes.

Our midfield is muddled and Farrell will remain first choice 12 until he finds a Manu with the ball handling skills of Slade... step up one time wing now impenetrable fullback Banahan

Wasn't he DJ Shape?

[Banquo]

Slade at 12? Where he's played maybe 5 times in his entire career including schoolboy rugby presumably because he can pass and kick, as opposed to playing him at 13 where he has been, you know, kinda good. That said it opens the midfield quandary over bringing Manu in one and then dropping Ford to the bench. What Jones intimated he should've played in the Final.

One thing they could consider, if he's fit, is playing Slade at 15 purely based on EJ's use of him in the RWC. I'm not sure I'm a fan of trying it, but then would it be worse than what we have today.

I think Slade could be better than Daly at FB but the long-term best option for the position is still Watson.

Jones's use of Daly there has curbed his attacking positional skills as he had to concentrate on his defensive ones. Daly needs to rove. I think seeing Daly rediscover his form on the wing is one of our best hopes for improving the attack provided that Jones keeps him there. It is the single admission of stubborn stupidity so far.

Whilst I agree that Daly is likely better used as a roving winger, his attacking from 15 was pretty good, bar sometimes being reluctant to pass to the free man outside him. He is quick and elusive, his attacking lines and points of entry were good, and for a while he was doing a great job in helping transition when we turned the ball over. His problem was the high ball and a bit of positional sense- but once a side sniff you are vulnerable under the high ball at 15, you are bu55ered as a 15 and the confidence in your own game disappears. Been there, albeit not at international level.

[Oakboy]

Slade at 12? Where he's played maybe 5 times in his entire career including schoolboy rugby presumably because he can pass and kick, as opposed to playing him at 13 where he has been, you know, kinda good. That said it opens the midfield quandary over bringing Manu in one and then dropping Ford to the bench. What Jones intimated he should've played in the Final.

One thing they could consider, if he's fit, is playing Slade at 15 purely based on EJ's use of him in the RWC. I'm not sure I'm a fan of trying it, but then would it be worse than what we have today.

I think Slade could be better than Daly at FB but the long-term best option for the position is still Watson.

Jones's use of Daly there has curbed his attacking positional skills as he had to concentrate on his defensive ones. Daly needs to rove. I think seeing Daly rediscover his form on the wing is one of our best hopes for improving the attack provided that Jones keeps him there. It is the single admission of stubborn stupidity so far.

Whilst I agree that Daly is likely better used as a roving winger, his attacking from 15 was pretty good, bar sometimes being reluctant to pass to the free man outside him. He is quick and elusive, his attacking lines and points of entry were good, and for a while he was doing a great job in helping transition when we turned the ball over. His problem was the high ball and a bit of positional sense- but once a side sniff you are vulnerable under the high ball at 15, you are bu55ered as a 15 and the confidence in your own game disappears. Been there, albeit not at international level.

Am I right that only three of his thirteen tries were scored from FB?