RugbyRebels

I'd be tempted to take O'Flaherty just to head off the inevitable Irish poach.

Puja

I knew I’d forgotten somebody. O’Flaherty is a good shout, as is Williams.

Is O’Flaherty actually Ireland qualified? With a name like that there’s a good chance he could be, but it’s not uncommon for people to have Irish names going back further than a grandparent.

Fivepointer is right - if we send a completely callow squad to Japan, there’s a good chance we’ll get overrun.

My thought process was to have a core of senior players starting (hence the suggestion of Launchbury as captain) but it’s virtually impossible to do that in the backs.

I’d probably go with a starting XV something like:

1. Genge
2. Cowan-Dickie
3. Stuart
4. Ewels
5. Launchbury (c)
6. Willis
7. Earl
8. Dombrandt
9. Mitchell
10. Smith
11. Thorley
12. Devoto
13. Marchant
14. Cokanasiga (if fit/available)
15. Malins

That would give us 8 or 9 capped players (not that Devoto’s handful of minutes really counts).

As we’ve publicly said it’s a development tour, I’m not sure how Japan are treating it? I’m sure they’ll be looking at it as a great opportunity to build upon their RWC success and get a first win over us, but they won’t have had the benefit of a year’s training together.

Timbo wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:
He already has. He’s doing well and has bagged a couple of tries already.

cool. I thought he was injured;would he be eligible for England as a Blues player by then?

Must admit I've lost interest in Super rugby, as have the crowds

The change in the calendar from June tours to July means Super Rugby will be over by the time we face Japan.

ta

Scrumhead wrote:I knew I’d forgotten somebody. O’Flaherty is a good shout, as is Williams.

Is O’Flaherty actually Ireland qualified? With a name like that there’s a good chance he could be, but it’s not uncommon for people to have Irish names going back further than a grandparent.

Fivepointer is right - if we send a completely callow squad to Japan, there’s a good chance we’ll get overrun.

My thought process was to have a core of senior players starting (hence the suggestion of Launchbury as captain) but it’s virtually impossible to do that in the backs.

I’d probably go with a starting XV something like:

1. Genge
2. Cowan-Dickie
3. Stuart
4. Ewels
5. Launchbury (c)
6. Willis
7. Earl
8. Dombrandt
9. Mitchell
10. Smith
11. Thorley
12. Devoto
13. Marchant
14. Cokanasiga (if fit/available)
15. Malins

That would give us 8 or 9 capped players (not that Devoto’s handful of minutes really counts).

As we’ve publicly said it’s a development tour, I’m not sure how Japan are treating it? I’m sure they’ll be looking at it as a great opportunity to build upon their RWC success and get a first win over us, but they won’t have had the benefit of a year’s training together.

I will admit, his surname is the sole basis of my assumption that one of O'Flaherty's grandparents had an encounter with an Irishman in the past. Seems likely, but you're right that he could be English through and through.

I would be amazed if Japan are treating it as anything other than a massive opportunity. We're the biggest name to have come on a fully fledged tour and they'll want to put on a good show for the crowds at the very least, and will certainly be hopeful that they can possibly turn us over at least once.

Puja

I feel slighted

Scrumhead wrote:I knew I’d forgotten somebody. O’Flaherty is a good shout, as is Williams.

Is O’Flaherty actually Ireland qualified? With a name like that there’s a good chance he could be, but it’s not uncommon for people to have Irish names going back further than a grandparent.

Fivepointer is right - if we send a completely callow squad to Japan, there’s a good chance we’ll get overrun.

My thought process was to have a core of senior players starting (hence the suggestion of Launchbury as captain) but it’s virtually impossible to do that in the backs.

I’d probably go with a starting XV something like:

1. Genge
2. Cowan-Dickie
3. Stuart
4. Ewels
5. Launchbury (c)
6. Willis
7. Earl
8. Dombrandt
9. Mitchell
10. Smith
11. Thorley
12. Devoto
13. Marchant
14. Cokanasiga (if fit/available)
15. Malins

That would give us 8 or 9 capped players (not that Devoto’s handful of minutes really counts).

As we’ve publicly said it’s a development tour, I’m not sure how Japan are treating it? I’m sure they’ll be looking at it as a great opportunity to build upon their RWC success and get a first win over us, but they won’t have had the benefit of a year’s training together.

I really like the look of that backline, actually. Pace and power on the wings, creativity all around...I think it'd be wonderful to watch.

I also really like the look of the props and the flanks, though I think Eddie will go for Ted Hill (and I might, too). That's a good decision to have.

I like Ewels, but he's just a bit meh. The only thing is...newcomers would need 2-3 injuries to get in. Lock picking order is kinda set in stone and rightly so considering the talent available.

I don't like the idea of taking Harry Williams. He just seems 2nd rate to me. Are there not better options to backup Stuart?

Stom wrote:I don't like the idea of taking Harry Williams. He just seems 2nd rate to me. Are there not better options to backup Stuart?

In terms of immediate quality, there's not many available. Balmain, maybe? Can't say he's a step up from Williams.

I'd say the only viable alternatives are Heyes, Street, or Painter, all of whom are very callow and not international quality yet. Mind, as someone said earlier, probably worthwhile having them involved to avoid a Celtic nation getting their hooks in.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Stom wrote:I don't like the idea of taking Harry Williams. He just seems 2nd rate to me. Are there not better options to backup Stuart?

In terms of immediate quality, there's not many available. Balmain, maybe? Can't say he's a step up from Williams.

I'd say the only viable alternatives are Heyes, Street, or Painter, all of whom are very callow and not international quality yet. Mind, as someone said earlier, probably worthwhile having them involved to avoid a Celtic nation getting their hooks in.

Puja

Might be worth taking one or 2. I just don't like the idea of wasting caps on players who you really don't want to have to pick. Better to spend a few caps on a potential replacement.

I like the idea of this as a team:

Genge
Walker/Taylor (Is it just me, or is Taylor really starting to come back into the kind of form he was showing pre-injury? I really like him. He's got good hands and is a very good defender).
Stuart
Ewels
Hill
Wilson (c)
Willis
Mercer
Mitchell
Smith
Thorley
Devoto
Marchant
Coka
Furbank

Walker/Taylor, Obano, ?, Coles, Earl, Maunder, Simmonds, Loader

How many times has Mitchell played this season? Is he injured, as he wasn't in the Saints squad on Saturday.

Poor old Ludlam can't seem to get a break except in brackets, and the alleged form 8 similar.

TBH, I assumed Mitchell was training with England (apprentice)?

I kind of agree with Stom re. Williams, but to Puja’s point, the likes of Heyes, Painter and Street aren’t ready. I guess there’s Schonert, but I don’t know if he’s markedly better than Williams either.

Banquo wrote:and the alleged form 8 similar.

Is that Simmonds, Hughes, Dombrandt, Harrison...?

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:and the alleged form 8 similar.

Is that Simmonds, Hughes, Dombrandt, Harrison...?

You decide....

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:and the alleged form 8 similar.

Is that Simmonds, Hughes, Dombrandt, Harrison...?

Your order (for the first three anyway) seems about right after watching the weekend's games. Clearly, age should put Dombrandt ahead of Hughes, as will form before long, hopefully.

For form, surely Dombrandt would already be ahead of Hughes? Hughes has had no more than a couple of good games for Bristol all season (mostly early on).

As much as Dombrandt didn’t do anything hugely eye catching at the weekend, he was a lot more conspicuous in defence than he has been in the past. 16 tackles is a lot more than he was last season/earlier this season. He’s seems to be upping the defensive work rate to add more than just the highlight reel breaks.

Good thread scrumhead. I really want to see what ollie lawrence can do.

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:

Stom wrote:I don't like the idea of taking Harry Williams. He just seems 2nd rate to me. Are there not better options to backup Stuart?

In terms of immediate quality, there's not many available. Balmain, maybe? Can't say he's a step up from Williams.

I'd say the only viable alternatives are Heyes, Street, or Painter, all of whom are very callow and not international quality yet. Mind, as someone said earlier, probably worthwhile having them involved to avoid a Celtic nation getting their hooks in.

Puja

Might be worth taking one or 2. I just don't like the idea of wasting caps on players who you really don't want to have to pick. Better to spend a few caps on a potential replacement.

I like the idea of this as a team:

Genge
Walker/Taylor (Is it just me, or is Taylor really starting to come back into the kind of form he was showing pre-injury? I really like him. He's got good hands and is a very good defender).
Stuart
Ewels
Hill
Wilson (c)
Willis
Mercer
Mitchell
Smith
Thorley
Devoto
Marchant
Coka
Furbank

Walker/Taylor, Obano, ?, Coles, Earl, Maunder, Simmonds, Loader

I've always been a fan of Taylor from when he started at Sale. He's a tackling machine and has a good all round game. Eddie did actually select him for a squad early on didn't he? I do think however that he's one of those players whose chance was scuppered by injuries and that he's gonna struggle to get Eddie's attention again. There are quite a few decent hookers in front of him in the Eng pecking order now. Also I imagine Eddie will be thinking about taking a closer look at Barbeary at some point rather than his Wasps club mate.

Scrumhead wrote: For form, surely Dombrandt would already be ahead of Hughes? Hughes has had no more than a couple of good games for Bristol all season (mostly early on).

As of the Worcester game Nathan Hughes ranked 2nd for carries, 3rd for metres gained & top for defenders beaten in the league. He's been consistently really good and occasionally outstanding, he get more attention if it wasn't for Charles Puitau. As the grounds firm up he should get even better.

Beasties wrote: I've always been a fan of Taylor from when he started at Sale. He's a tackling machine and has a good all round game. Eddie did actually select him for a squad early on didn't he? I do think however that he's one of those players whose chance was scuppered by injuries and that he's gonna struggle to get Eddie's attention again. There are quite a few decent hookers in front of him in the Eng pecking order now. Also I imagine Eddie will be thinking about taking a closer look at Barbeary at some point rather than his Wasps club mate.

How long do you envisage Eddie staying? Alfie is only going to be 21/22 in the cycle (is he 18 or 19 now?) heading into the next WC when he'd need to be breaking into the squad, he's done well so far but the jump from where he is now to the EPS is massive, and that before Eddie can just stick with players like Dunn to support his main two

Oakboy wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:and the alleged form 8 similar.

Is that Simmonds, Hughes, Dombrandt, Harrison...?

Your order (for the first three anyway) seems about right after watching the weekend's games. Clearly, age should put Dombrandt ahead of Hughes, as will form before long, hopefully.

If it's my order Hughes wouldn't be on the list, nor Harrison. Simmonds is only worth looking at if Eddie knows what he wants from him, he can't ape Billy and sending him to stand on the wing not being involved wasn't useful either, which leaves Dombrandt as the only realistic option

Digby wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Digby wrote:

Is that Simmonds, Hughes, Dombrandt, Harrison...?

Your order (for the first three anyway) seems about right after watching the weekend's games. Clearly, age should put Dombrandt ahead of Hughes, as will form before long, hopefully.

If it's my order Hughes wouldn't be on the list, nor Harrison. Simmonds is only worth looking at if Eddie knows what he wants from him, he can't ape Billy and sending him to stand on the wing not being involved wasn't useful either, which leaves Dombrandt as the only realistic option

Did you not watch Quins v Exeter?

Digby wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Digby wrote:

Is that Simmonds, Hughes, Dombrandt, Harrison...?

Your order (for the first three anyway) seems about right after watching the weekend's games. Clearly, age should put Dombrandt ahead of Hughes, as will form before long, hopefully.

If it's my order Hughes wouldn't be on the list, nor Harrison. Simmonds is only worth looking at if Eddie knows what he wants from him, he can't ape Billy and sending him to stand on the wing not being involved wasn't useful either, which leaves Dombrandt as the only realistic option

Why not Mercer? He's got a very good allround game. And is learning from one of the best week in week out with Faletau.

Beasties wrote:

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:
In terms of immediate quality, there's not many available. Balmain, maybe? Can't say he's a step up from Williams.

I'd say the only viable alternatives are Heyes, Street, or Painter, all of whom are very callow and not international quality yet. Mind, as someone said earlier, probably worthwhile having them involved to avoid a Celtic nation getting their hooks in.

Puja

Might be worth taking one or 2. I just don't like the idea of wasting caps on players who you really don't want to have to pick. Better to spend a few caps on a potential replacement.

I like the idea of this as a team:

Genge
Walker/Taylor (Is it just me, or is Taylor really starting to come back into the kind of form he was showing pre-injury? I really like him. He's got good hands and is a very good defender).
Stuart
Ewels
Hill
Wilson (c)
Willis
Mercer
Mitchell
Smith
Thorley
Devoto
Marchant
Coka
Furbank

Walker/Taylor, Obano, ?, Coles, Earl, Maunder, Simmonds, Loader

I've always been a fan of Taylor from when he started at Sale. He's a tackling machine and has a good all round game. Eddie did actually select him for a squad early on didn't he? I do think however that he's one of those players whose chance was scuppered by injuries and that he's gonna struggle to get Eddie's attention again. There are quite a few decent hookers in front of him in the Eng pecking order now. Also I imagine Eddie will be thinking about taking a closer look at Barbeary at some point rather than his Wasps club mate.

I doubt Barbeary will be anywhere near England this cycle and however promising he is, he shouldn't be anywhere near.

I just want my front rowers to be a bit more allround than Dunn, if I'm honest. He's a good honest pro, he does all the basics well, but he's not really top notch.

Walker is better allround, but he needs to force himself ahead of Dunn at club level.

I like Taylor because he has that ability ball in hand that Dunn just doesn't and he's a pretty solid thrower. I think he'd be a great addition to the England team.

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
Your order (for the first three anyway) seems about right after watching the weekend's games. Clearly, age should put Dombrandt ahead of Hughes, as will form before long, hopefully.

If it's my order Hughes wouldn't be on the list, nor Harrison. Simmonds is only worth looking at if Eddie knows what he wants from him, he can't ape Billy and sending him to stand on the wing not being involved wasn't useful either, which leaves Dombrandt as the only realistic option

Why not Mercer? He's got a very good allround game. And is learning from one of the best week in week out with Faletau.

Because he was in your selection, and I responded to Banquo's comment on your selection that neither Ludlam nor the form 8 could get a look in. I do like Mercer, and I'm pleased he's struggled to have anything like the impact coming into senior rugby that might have been hoped for, I think he's good enough being forced to do more will hopefully prove useful

Oakboy wrote:

Digby wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
Your order (for the first three anyway) seems about right after watching the weekend's games. Clearly, age should put Dombrandt ahead of Hughes, as will form before long, hopefully.

If it's my order Hughes wouldn't be on the list, nor Harrison. Simmonds is only worth looking at if Eddie knows what he wants from him, he can't ape Billy and sending him to stand on the wing not being involved wasn't useful either, which leaves Dombrandt as the only realistic option

Did you not watch Quins v Exeter?

I didn't watch any rugby this weekend, but I don't know I'd draw much from a performance up against the might of Quins, all due respect to Quins (which obviously isn't very much)

In all seriousness, will this tour be going ahead? I know it's a long time off yet, but there's essential planning that needs to be done and won't (or can't) be in the current climate.