GOAT - The eternal debate

[Big D]

For Athletics we have:

Moses
Bolt
Selassi
Edwards
Tirunesh Dibaba

Athletics is a horrible one as we can never be truly sure they are/were clean and there are some justifiable concerns over many. I mean Flo-Jo has to be considered "Only" 3 Olympic gold medals but 2 long standing world records that are shrouded in doubt.

Carl Lewis - 17 global golds, only 2 less than Bolt but includes the long jump (4 in a row). His PBs were quick (9.86s for 100 and 19.75s for 200) and long (8.87m) even by todays standards 15 years on. To give context those would have won silver in the 100m, gold at the 200m and gold by half a meter in the long jump in 2016. But again there are doubts over whether clean.

Do we count medals or performances? Is Edwards considered more because his 18m jumps breaking a barrier rather than global gold medals (2worlds and 1 Olympic) compared to Mike Powell not breaking 9m but has a long standing WR and two global golds.

Kipchoge is one who I think would come into the conversation, world champion in 2003 over 5k, 2016 Olympic champion over the marathon, marathon WR holder and then went under 2hrs albeit in controlled conditions.

[Banquo]

Michael Johnson?

[Big D]

Michael Johnson?

He totally slipped my mind. He'd be in the discussion too.

I think athletics is hard to judge (especially with the suspicion of drugs), I wouldn't consider Farah for the discussion but 10 global golds, back to back Olympic doubles and 4 World championships where two were double golds and two were gold and silvers is very impressive.

Then there are guys like Rudisha who have Golds, a world record and put in some spectacular performances. His 800m at the London Olympics is one of the greatest runs of all time.

[Banquo]

Michael Johnson?

He totally slipped my mind. He'd be in the discussion too.

I think athletics is hard to judge (especially with the suspicion of drugs), I wouldn't consider Farah for the discussion but 10 global golds, back to back Olympic doubles and 4 World championships where two were double golds and two were gold and silvers is very impressive.

Then there are guys like Rudisha who have Golds, a world record and put in some spectacular performances. His 800m at the London Olympics is one of the greatest runs of all time.

I'd chuck Coe in as well, mainly because the 800m world record stood for so long.

[Doorzetbornandbred]

David Fagan is the GOAT for me.

[Digby]

From Oliver Twist?

[Banquo]

David Fagan is the GOAT for me.

Ewe don't say?

[Doorzetbornandbred]

David Fagan is the GOAT for me.

Ewe don't say?

I dont want to ram the point home, wether you agree with me or not may be shear luck.

[Banquo]

David Fagan is the GOAT for me.

Ewe don't say?

I dont want to ram the point home, wether you agree with me or not may be shear luck.

Not trying to fleece you mate

[Zhivago]

Surely we need some criteria. I would probably try to think about it as measuring the candidates across two measures - sheer dominance, and longevity.

So for me Bolt has a clear tick for sheer dominance, but his longevity is a bit average. Someone who has shown immense dominance at the top and for a long time is Federer. He would be my pick.

Bit biased towards recent sportspeople though.

[Numbers]

Bradman is undoubtedly a great, my one knock on him was that the competition he was up against. If I remember correctly he basically played England then a handful against each of South Africa, WIndies and India. The three latter teams were not of the quality they would later become.

I think golf should count tbh.

Each of the people that come to mind Jordan, Woods, Bolt, Serena Williams, Ali, Phelps, Bradman and others all have good cases for and against.

What about motorsport, though? Schumacher, Hamilton, Valentino Rossi, Senna?

You said Serena Williams, but what about Federer, or Navratilova, or Graff?

Boxing? Louis, Ali, Mayweather?

Fangio is the GOAT of motorsport. His sheer wins/races ratio, plus being up against some stellar names, in an era before almost every driver aid.

Puja

Perhaps in cars but for all motorsport I present to you Jon Surtees, the only man to have won the F1 Title and the motorbike world title (X4).

[paddy no 11]

Didn't one of the dibaba sisters fail a drugs test?

One the greatest,

Surely the czeck javelin thrower is in with a shout here

World record about 15metres further than won gold at the olympics this year. Did they change the weight of the javelin????

[Numbers]

Didn't one of the dibaba sisters fail a drugs test?

One the greatest,

Surely the czeck javelin thrower is in with a shout here

World record about 15metres further than won gold at the olympics this year. Did they change the weight of the javelin????

Jan Selezny?

[paddy no 11]

Yup, that's him, throws over 90m are rare

I may do a bit of research on this

[Numbers]

Yup, that's him, throws over 90m are rare

I may do a bit of research on this

They changed the Javelins to prevent them from getting as far as the running track which is why no-one gets close to 90 any more.

[Big D]

I am not suggesting he is the GOAT but the SPOTY announcement and knowing he wont win has made me think just how underrated Adam Peatty is.

16 fastest times ever in his discipline, and only person to break the 57 second barrier. He is utterly dominant in his field (ok pool). Just a shame it is "only" one discipline.

[Numbers]

I am not suggesting he is the GOAT but the SPOTY announcement and knowing he wont win has made me think just how underrated Adam Peatty is.

16 fastest times ever in his discipline, and only person to break the 57 second barrier. He is utterly dominant in his field (ok pool). Just a shame it is "only" one discipline.

I think Phelps has the swimming GOAT tied up.

[Big D]

I am not suggesting he is the GOAT but the SPOTY announcement and knowing he wont win has made me think just how underrated Adam Peatty is.

16 fastest times ever in his discipline, and only person to break the 57 second barrier. He is utterly dominant in his field (ok pool). Just a shame it is "only" one discipline.

I think Phelps has the swimming GOAT tied up.

Wasn't suggesting Peatty was challenging him. But he is massively underrated in British sporting history.

[Mellsblue]

Settled:

[Mellsblue]

Tadhg Beirne was for approx 15 mins this morning.

[canta_brian]

Wilt the stilt Chamberlain. The man was a physical freak.

[Banquo]

Jimmy Anderson. Statistically obviously not....but jeez.

Not entirely serious, but a great and skilled role model for perseverance, commitment and developing your skills to maximise your natural talent.

[Mellsblue]

His Wellman adverts were pretty good for someone with no stage training but that’s a bit ott.

[Banquo]

His Wellman adverts were pretty good for someone with no stage training but that’s a bit ott.

forgotten that, instant disqualification

[Son of Mathonwy]

Djokovic has the tennis GOAT wrapped up:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/67468494