England A vs. Scotland A

[Peej]

Hassell-Collins always seems to do decent things in a less than stellar Irish backline.

Would West not be in the main squad?

[FKAS]

Pretty sure he's 29, and he's way down the list of any locks for me. He looked decent at 8 until he got a bad injury.

Just Googled it and we're both wrong, he's just turned 28. He still carries like an 8 but uses his 6ft7 frame to good effect at the lineout. What's not to like? Yeah he's not that explosive but his carrying game is still up there with the other options. Who'd you select instead?

ESPN, Sale Sharks website have him at 29. The other options have been listed before- though it does depend on the various touring/game machinations and what you are trying to achieve. I'd be tempted by Alex Coles who is getting great ratings for a 21 year old and many of the other names touted above before him.

Ha damn Wikipedia.

I'd take Coles instead, he's a lad with a lot of potential. Make sure he's partnered with someone more experienced like Ribbans and he'd be ok. I like Beaumont as an option but I'd not be bothered if he didn't go. I'd be more bothered if we took the same options we used in the 6N less the Lions tourists.

[Puja]

No-one seems to have mentioned wing Ben Loader of L.I. A beautifully balanced runner with great footwork and pace to burn. As far as I know he is EQ.

Excellent shout. He's such a promising player and is in excellent form. Eddie's had him in a squad before, IIRC.

Puja

[FKAS]

No-one seems to have mentioned wing Ben Loader of L.I. A beautifully balanced runner with great footwork and pace to burn. As far as I know he is EQ.

Excellent shout. He's such a promising player and is in excellent form. Eddie's had him in a squad before, IIRC.

Puja

Didn't he play fullback at age grade as well? Offering what he does ball in hand but also ability under the high ball would fit nicely with what Eddie likes in his wingers.

[fivepointer]

Loader played against the Barbarians in 2019.
Another winger worth a look at is Arron Reed at Sale. Has Luke James been mentioned yet? Richard Capstick is another who looks full of promise.

[Banquo]

I've only seen about 20 minutes of Fitz Harding but he looks full of potential.

[Puja]

Barbeary already on the hot prospects waste heap.

Puja

[Epaminondas Pules]

No-one seems to have mentioned wing Ben Loader of L.I. A beautifully balanced runner with great footwork and pace to burn. As far as I know he is EQ.

Excellent shout. He's such a promising player and is in excellent form. Eddie's had him in a squad before, IIRC.

Puja

Didn't he play fullback at age grade as well? Offering what he does ball in hand but also ability under the high ball would fit nicely with what Eddie likes in his wingers.

Certainly did. Played fullback and wing for Wellington College, fullback for England U18s and then more wing for the U20s.

[Stom]

Barbeary already on the hot prospects waste heap.

Puja

We're all expecting him to be with the main squad, not with the Saxons.

[Mikey Brown]

I’ve already written him off as another JSD, frankly.

[Banquo]

I’ve already written him off as another JSD, frankly.

who was Jack Nowell's role model...

[Scrumhead]

I've only seen about 20 minutes of Fitz Harding but he looks full of potential.

Good shout. Not sure on his best position (flanker or 8) but looks like a good player.

[Scrumhead]

Anyone got any more info on this fixture yet?

My main questions are:

1) Will this game ‘capture’ any players who are eligible for other countries?
2) Will this be a separate squad (as it usually is for the Barbarians game)?
3) Who is in charge of this squad? O’Shea?

[Puja]

It should capture, as Scotland A are Scotland's nominated next representative side (unlike the tour against South Africa A which... didn't... because IRB reasons). The other questions, I haven't a scoob on.

Puja

[FKAS]

Anyone got any more info on this fixture yet?

My main questions are:

1) Will this game ‘capture’ any players who are eligible for other countries?
2) Will this be a separate squad (as it usually is for the Barbarians game)?
3) Who is in charge of this squad? O’Shea?

I would hope that the bulk of the players selected then play against the USA and Canada as I want a development summer for the squad as opposed to maintaining the status quo. The Prem final is the day before so that will limit access to presumably Bristol and Chiefs players but those clubs aren't going to provide a mass number for selection so a development squad could be picked and those players just added later.

I would assume Eddie will want to take charge as there is only two tests after this and he'll want to get his hands on the players sooner. With bubbles etc I'm not sure it would be particularly feasible to select two entirely different squads given the Prem final and the Lions tour. There would have to be overlap and with Eddie's plans for us to play at high tempo you need players in camp as quickly and for as long as possible to work on that.

[Scrumhead]

I agree. With a couple of exceptions, I would want to use broadly the same squad.

For example, I want us to capture Rodd and Heyes in the A side but I’m not sure they’re quite ready for the full squad unless we want to give Genge and Sinckler the summer off.

TBH, even if we do give a Genge the summer off, I’d want more game time for Obano and I’d put West ahead of Rodd right now. However, I do feel that Rodd might be the better player in time though, so I’d want to make sure we don’t see another Redpath/Williams scenario.

Tighthead is a bit different. Heyes is closer to being ready than Rodd IMO, so I wouldn’t be against giving Sinckler a holiday and going with Stuart and Heyes for these games. Which would also free up Sinckler if he gets a late chance to join up with the Lions.

[fivepointer]

Jones will take control of the A game.

I think we might get something like a 36 man squad for the series of games, with perhaps 6 to 9 players clearly selected just for the A game.

[Scrumhead]

That would be decent. In that case, I’d like to see something like:

1. B. Obano / T. West / B. Rodd
2. T. Dunn / J. Singleton / W. Capon
3. W. Stuart / J. Heyes
4. C. Ewels / N. Isiekwe* / H. Wells
5. D. Ribbans / J. Kpoku
6. T. Hill / G. Martin / A. Barbeary
7. B. Earl / B. Curry
8. A. Dombrandt / C. Chick
9. D. Robson / H. Randall / A. Mitchell* / J. van Poortvliet
10. M. Smith / J. Simmonds / J. Umaga
11. O. Hassell-Collins / P. Odogwu
12. P. O’Conor / O. Devoto / D. Kelly
13. J. Marchant / O. Lawrence
14. O. Sleightholme / B. Loader
15. M. Malins / F. Steward

*Not sure on injuries?

I’d be looking at the following for the A game:

1. T. West
2. J. Singleton
3. J. Heyes
4. N. Isiekwe
5. D. Ribbans
6. A. Barbeary
7. B. Curry
8. A. Dombrandt
9. H. Randall
10. M. Smith
11. O. Hassell-Collins
12. P. O’Conor
13. P. Odogwu
14. O. Sleightholme
15. F. Steward

16. W. Capon 17. B. Rodd 18. W. Stuart 19. G. Martin 20. C. Chick 21. J. van Poortvliet 22. J. Umaga 23. D. Kelly

It would be great to capture Heyes, Rodd, Randall, Odogwu and Kelly as I genuinely think all of them have a future for England.

For Canada/USA:

1. B. Obano
2. T. Dunn
3. W. Stuart
4. N. Isiekwe
5. D. Ribbans
6. T. Hill or B. Curry
7. B. Earl
8. A. Dombrandt
9. D. Robson
10. M. Smith
11. O. Hassell-Collins
12. P. O’Conor
13. J. Marchant or O. Lawrence
14. P. Odogwu
15. M. Malins

16. J. Singleton 17. T. West 18. J. Heyes 19. G. Martin 20. B. Curry 21. H. Randall 22. O. Lawrence 23. F. Steward (or B. Loader)

[Banquo]

Not convinced by Isiekwe as a lock, plus he's not played there all season iirc. On the Saints theme, Freeman is an excellent player; it may be a bit early for Coles, but when he's got a bit more bulk..... Dingwall has slipped off the england radar, and Scotland are sniffing.

How much has Barbeary played at 6, compared with say Hill. Is his future really in the back row? These are sort of rhetorical questions to be honest, but I do think he needs to be moved forward at some point.

[Puja]

That would be decent. In that case, I’d like to see something like:

1. B. Obano / T. West / B. Rodd
2. T. Dunn / J. Singleton / W. Capon
3. W. Stuart / J. Heyes
4. C. Ewels / N. Isiekwe* / H. Wells
5. D. Ribbans / J. Kpoku
6. T. Hill / G. Martin / A. Barbeary
7. B. Earl / B. Curry
8. A. Dombrandt / C. Chick
9. D. Robson / H. Randall / A. Mitchell* / J. van Poortvliet
10. M. Smith / J. Simmonds / J. Umaga
11. O. Hassell-Collins / P. Odogwu
12. P. O’Conor / O. Devoto / D. Kelly
13. J. Marchant / O. Lawrence
14. O. Sleightholme / B. Loader
15. M. Malins / F. Steward

*Not sure on injuries?

I’d be looking at the following for the A game:

1. T. West
2. J. Singleton
3. J. Heyes
4. N. Isiekwe
5. D. Ribbans
6. A. Barbeary
7. B. Curry
8. A. Dombrandt
9. H. Randall
10. M. Smith
11. O. Hassell-Collins
12. P. O’Conor
13. P. Odogwu
14. O. Sleightholme
15. F. Steward

16. W. Capon 17. B. Rodd 18. W. Stuart 19. G. Martin 20. C. Chick 21. J. van Poortvliet 22. J. Umaga 23. D. Kelly

It would be great to capture Heyes, Rodd, Randall, Odogwu and Kelly as I genuinely think all of them have a future for England.

For Canada/USA:

1. B. Obano
2. T. Dunn
3. W. Stuart
4. N. Isiekwe
5. D. Ribbans
6. T. Hill or B. Curry
7. B. Earl
8. A. Dombrandt
9. D. Robson
10. M. Smith
11. O. Hassell-Collins
12. P. O’Conor
13. J. Marchant or O. Lawrence
14. P. Odogwu
15. M. Malins

16. J. Singleton 17. T. West 18. J. Heyes 19. G. Martin 20. B. Curry 21. H. Randall 22. O. Lawrence 23. F. Steward (or B. Loader)

I absolutely agree with pretty much all of your calls there. Only thing I'd say is that I don't know Wells is ever going to be an England prospect, so putting him in the As might be a wasted spot. Mind, there's not a huge number of locks banging down the door and he has been in the form of his life for Leicester, so it would be a nice reward for him.

No Ewels in the tests XV though?

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Good point. Not sure why I forgot Ewels for the actual test matches

On Harry Wells, my assessment was pretty much the same as yours. Given who is/isn’t available, I’d see no harm in picking him for an England A game. He is a classic England A/Saxons level player IMO and is in more than good enough form to warrant the call.

Re. Isiekwe, I think it’s a moot point as he’s injured. In a full blooded summer tour, I’d have been hesitant to pick him as a lock when he’s been playing at 6 all season, but he’s hardly unfamiliar with the position and I’m sure he’d be fine against the USA and Canada.

From a longer term POV, he’d be much better focusing on playing at lock IMO. Establishing himself as Itoje’s regular partner at club level would surely be a more obvious route to test rugby than competing with the plethora of excellent back row players at our disposal. Kruis isn’t back for another year yet, so it’s an ideal opportunity.

Re. Barbeary. I don’t know if his future is at 6 but I don’t think he can be picked as a Hooker when he’s never played there at club level.

[Raggs]

Good point. Not sure why I forgot Ewels for the actual test matches

On Harry Wells, my assessment was pretty much the same as yours. Given who is/isn’t available, I’d see no harm in picking him for an England A game. He is a classic England A/Saxons level player IMO and is in more than good enough form to warrant the call.

Re. Isiekwe, I think it’s a moot point as he’s injured. In a full blooded summer tour, I’d have been hesitant to pick him as a lock when he’s been playing at 6 all season, but he’s hardly unfamiliar with the position and I’m sure he’d be fine against the USA and Canada.

From a longer term POV, he’d be much better focusing on playing at lock IMO. Establishing himself as Itoje’s regular partner at club level would surely be a more obvious route to test rugby than competing with the plethora of excellent back row players at our disposal. Kruis isn’t back for another year yet, so it’s an ideal opportunity.

Re. Barbeary. I don’t know if his future is at 6 but I don’t think he can be picked as a Hooker when he’s never played there at club level.

He has played there at club level, just not prem. I'd give him a go at hooker in the A game, and see how it goes.

[Banquo]

Good point. Not sure why I forgot Ewels for the actual test matches

On Harry Wells, my assessment was pretty much the same as yours. Given who is/isn’t available, I’d see no harm in picking him for an England A game. He is a classic England A/Saxons level player IMO and is in more than good enough form to warrant the call.

Re. Isiekwe, I think it’s a moot point as he’s injured. In a full blooded summer tour, I’d have been hesitant to pick him as a lock when he’s been playing at 6 all season, but he’s hardly unfamiliar with the position and I’m sure he’d be fine against the USA and Canada.

From a longer term POV, he’d be much better focusing on playing at lock IMO. Establishing himself as Itoje’s regular partner at club level would surely be a more obvious route to test rugby than competing with the plethora of excellent back row players at our disposal. Kruis isn’t back for another year yet, so it’s an ideal opportunity.

Re. Barbeary. I don’t know if his future is at 6 but I don’t think he can be picked as a Hooker when he’s never played there at club level.

I just don’t think Isiekwe is an international lock, but just an opinion. He’s a bit caught between positions.

How much has Barbeary even played at 6? He’s not really had much prem time full stop tbh. Enough to show he’s an effective carrier. I think if he is to make the move to hooker, where I think he will standout if he has the technical skill in the tight, I’d think the time is approaching to decide. Maybe not immediately- but I’d think he needs a ‘roadmap’ of some sort.

[Which Tyler]

Fro 3 matches against Scotland A, USA and Canada - I'm happy to give Barbeary the 16 shirt. And I say that as someone who hates capping players in their breakthrough season.
Giving him 40 minutes over the 3 matches won't make or break the "tour"; won't make or break his career; but will give him some exposure, and let everyone see what he can or can't do. It's exactly the sort of experimenting we should be doing.

Besides, looking forwards to 2027, I'd rather have an England team with 4 of Barbeary, Curry, Curry, Willis, Willis, Earl, Dombrandt, Mercer, Ludlum, Hill, Reid... etc starting, than 3 of them.

[Scrumhead]

I don’t disagree that Barbeary needs to focus on moving to hooker sooner rather than later, but if Wasps don’t think his basics are up to it yet, picking him for test rugby as a hooker seems like a strange decision and I wonder if that would send out the wrong message?

Obviously it depends on his mentality, but if his skillset isn’t yet convincing enough for Wasps and he’s still picked for England anyway, where is the incentive for him to work on those skills?

Given that Wasps don’t have a great deal to play for now and with Taylor on the way to Sale, they should just bite the bullet and play him as a hooker. The only thing that worries me is that if Oghre’s basics are considered ‘good enough’ but Barbeary’s aren’t ... there’s a lot of work to be done.