Leicester vs Montpellier (Twickenham, Friday 20:00)

[Raggs]

It was Bobby bridge the reporter that posted it.

[Peej]

It's having someone like Pollard on the bench I find more amusing. I don't know what the Montpellier player spend is, but when one side has Pollard on the bench and the other Henry then one club's spend is likely some multiple higher

Pollard is only just coming back from a long term injury

[Peej]

Quite surprised they didn't at least look at that last clear out from Goosen

[Magic_sponge]

I just plain don't get the Wigglesworth selection. He was a solid option at the start of the season, but he's been getting slower and slower as time wears on and is an active liability. I can only assume that the plan is to go boring early and hard and have the option to accelerate towards the end - with torrential rain and 20mph winds forecast, it could be a valid plan. Still, with the form Youngs is in, I'd still rather have him playing the bulk of the game.

Big bulky tackling back row, horrible weather, kicking scrum-half, George SPIRAL BOMB Ford - anyone know what Bouthier is like under the high ball? Cause I suspect he's gonna receive one or two.

Puja

The point about wigglesworth is playing out...

[loudnconfident]

Not taking the penalty at 17-18 down..

[loudnconfident]

And again!

[FKAS]

Tigers had the right tactics but just lacked the attacking cutting edge in the Montpellier 22. Too many lineouts off the top when we were not really using those. When we get an attack coach we might offer a bit more. Montpellier had some insane talent in their backline that proved crucial in a couple of key moments.

I like Tom Youngs interview, he's got a lot of young lads in the squad that need to be picked up after that gutting one point loss for next weekend.

[Magic_sponge]

Not sure how I feel about that! I'm actually surprised Leicester didn't clinch it. In general:

Steward didn't have a great second half, and that's from potentially his biggest fan... Would still put him straight into England team if I'm honest. I know there was a big RR debate, but I just don't get why he wouldn't get it to be honest.

The kicking game for me was not great. I know the pundits were waxing lyrical about Ford's kicking, but, for me, it was both too much and not even that good. And I like Ford generally.

Wigglesworth was rubbish. Enough said.

I think Moroni is great. Perhaps gave away a few too many penalties, but I think overall he's a major positive, not just in this game. Kelly too if a big prospect, but a bit to learn like his missed tackle for the last try, positioning etc.

Also thought Wiese was surprisingly impotent.

[FKAS]

I think Montpellier used their frankly massive pack to man mark Weise out the game. Every time he got the ball he had two or three opposition players piling in.

Steward I felt got a raw deal because he took it on himself to try and attack more and made good metres but our clear out work just wasn't very good. One poor kick and misjudging a couple in the swirling conditions aside he was good, certainly any contestable Montpellier kicks he hoovered up nicely.

The tactical kicking game was not massively entertaining but it was very effective. Well until Pollard came on and reminded everyone what a million Euros a season pays for at flyhalf. The kicking game forces Montpellier to play most of their game from their own half and turned an incredible backline into mainly spectators or tactical kickers. If we'd played more then inevitably in those conditions Montpellier would have had more chances and their backline was pretty special and we'd have lost badly.

There's plenty to work on for Tigers but also plenty to like. We really need that attack coach to join up this summer.

[Magic_sponge]

My interpretation of the game was a bit different, but hey, that's what I love about rugby! Funnily enough about steward, I was about to post how great I thought he was but thought I'd hold off as not to jinx it, and that was when he made a couple of mistakes (a poor kick, then holding on) so maybe I was looking for it. Like I said, couldn't be a bigger fan of his in general.

I definitely didn't see a good tactical kicking game. Ford did kick very well when he was grubbing through to touch, but my general impression was a lot of kicks that were too long, and I'd love to see the percentage kicked Vs 'normal' as it seemed a lot.

BUT, as a non Leicester fan, I would definitely say I'd have a lot to look forward too if I was. And bang on, a top attack coach would make a huge difference.

[FKAS]

We've adopted the England style kicking game. It used to annoy the hell out of me until I saw an analytical breakdown behind it. It's taking the long view in terms of the game and is all about moving the opposition pack around the pitch on the assumption your pack is fitter whilst also backing yourselves to not make an error before the opposition does and therefore gain territory. I certainly am not in the advocate camp for this as a game plan but generally we do have good territory and normally wear down the opposition (see the Ulster game for the most dramatic display of this).

Hopefully when we acquire an attack coach we'll see a but more variation.

[Magic_sponge]

Ok, that I can appreciate, if not comment on whether it's right or not. As I wasn't watching for that though, I won't comment!

Watched a squidge video about how good Ford is and it did make me look at things differently, so good shout.

Anyway, long and short I think Leicester could be up there next season, got the raw materials for it.

[Puja]

Very frustrating game to lose, although can't really complain - we just weren't clinical enough. Ford had a very iffy game by his standards, especially missing the sitter of a drop goal, and Steward looked for the first time like a young player in his first full season.

Still, hope for the future and plenty to build on.

Puja

[FKAS]

I think with Steward we're used to him dominating the opposition fullback. Tonight he came up against France's first choice who was outstanding in the 6N and it was a much bigger ask for a 20 year old in his first season as part of the first team. Nadolo gave an interview last month where he talked about the Tigers younger players always wanting to learn and highlighted Freddie as one who was always looking to improve. Well next week he can look back at the footage and see what an in form international did to impact the game against him and look to incorporate bits of that in his own play. It'll be the same for Kelly who was up against the absolute unit Vincent, who really was the glue that held the Montpellier backline together.

Montpellier didn't bring either of their youngsters off the bench. We played all of ours. We've just got to hope they'll learn from this and bottle the hurt to use to drive them on.

One frustration for me was that we seemed to be all over their scrum and then the changes at hooker and tighthead came on and although we didn't give an inch they weren't under pressure anymore. Perhaps something for Heyes to learn from as well, which again will be good as he's had it his own way a bit and at just 22 it might be good to remind him he's still got a bit to learn. I'm sure Coley will help him along.

[Beasties]

We've adopted the England style kicking game. It used to annoy the hell out of me until I saw an analytical breakdown behind it. It's taking the long view in terms of the game and is all about moving the opposition pack around the pitch on the assumption your pack is fitter whilst also backing yourselves to not make an error before the opposition does and therefore gain territory. I certainly am not in the advocate camp for this as a game plan but generally we do have good territory and normally wear down the opposition (see the Ulster game for the most dramatic display of this).

Hopefully when we acquire an attack coach we'll see a but more variation.

Just finished watching this and was about to post that I'd just watched a masterclass from Ford in kicking the ball 15m too far and how it kept taking the momentum away from Leics. But I'm a former prop so clearly don't inderstand the thinking. There was me assuming pressuring the oppo would be a good thing.

Hey ho. I've got a lot of time for Wells, and Reffell impressed when he came on. One brilliant turnover got no mention at all from the BT team. Leics should've won that but good game to watch for the neutral. I remain a fan of Lozowski.

[Spiffy]

Leicester/Ford clearly had a game plan that was based on kicking the ball deep into opposition territory but up the middle of the pitch and away from the touch lines, to avoid giving away line out possession. Towards the end of the match, when Leicester needed to score points to stay in the game, this was clearly not working, yet they persisted with the same aimless tactic. Nobody, including the highly touted Ford, had the wit to try something different, and Montpelier were content to accept free ball, hang on to it, and just run down the clock.
I rate Ford highly as a FH but this limited tactic probably cost Leicester the game.

[FKAS]

It was a limited tactic but it worked all game, well not so well when Pollard came on. When Tigers did vary it and kicked the compete we didn't have much joy.

We were forced to kick more than I would have liked close in to their 22m line but mainly because our attacking structure is still a bit basic. Montpellier's defence was also very good as it was against Bath as well to be fair.

Tigers current first team staff;

Head coach - Borthwick
Defence coach - Ford
Performance coach - Walters
Assistant forwards coach - B Deacon

Then we've got two academy coaches helping to cover the scrum (Harrison) and attack (Smith). Harrison has been a coach for a while and also coaches the scrum Loughborough University, will probably get the gig full time. The part time attack coach Matt Smith is the head coach for the academy and only retired a year or so back. Tigers have got to bring in an attack coach this summer because it's not the first time this season the attacking game plan has lacked a cutting edge in the opposition's 22. We are somewhat reliant on Youngs or Ford pulling some clever stuff to get us over the line. The big boys teams don't operate like that, they have a structure.

[fivepointer]

Montpellier deserve some praise for the way they defended, closed down Tigers dangerous runners and put together 2 very well worked tries.
Leicester did some things very well, but its clear they are not confident about moving the ball and that does limit their attacking options. They weren't helped by some less than precise kicking, which too often gifted easy ball to their opponents. I thought Cole and Youngs were subbed too early and Wiggy too late.

[Oakboy]

The statistical fact is that Ford missed two fairly easy kicks: one off the tee and a drop goal attempt. Either would have won the match.

His kicking from hand was like a demonstration of good and bad, IMO. The grubbers to touch were simply top class. The straight-down-the-field stuff was of debatable value in terms of tactics and accuracy. What I find most odd is the claim that it works - tiring the opposition pack or whatever. Repeated kicks landing in the opposition 22 gives the opposition an opportunity to take a nice breather with a mark called, run the play to their tune and keep the ball if they choose.

I think Leicester could and should have won that match. Borthwick using discredited Jones-tactics has slipped in my estimation again. Having said that, it might have been a single-final cock-up. There are some signs of improvement in the squad.

[Puja]

The statistical fact is that Ford missed two fairly easy kicks: one off the tee and a drop goal attempt. Either would have won the match.

His kicking from hand was like a demonstration of good and bad, IMO. The grubbers to touch were simply top class. The straight-down-the-field stuff was of debatable value in terms of tactics and accuracy. What I find most odd is the claim that it works - tiring the opposition pack or whatever. Repeated kicks landing in the opposition 22 gives the opposition an opportunity to take a nice breather with a mark called, run the play to their tune and keep the ball if they choose.

I think Leicester could and should have won that match. Borthwick using discredited Jones-tactics has slipped in my estimation again. Having said that, it might have been a single-final cock-up. There are some signs of improvement in the squad.

You are aware of the difference in quality of the squads, right? They brought on two RWC winners in Pollard and Reinach, Lamositele, and Bismarck and Jacques du Plessis off the bench, while we could bring on Charlie Claire, Luan de Bruin, Cameron Henderson, and Zack Henry. The limited tactics are the reason we came so close to winning, not something to castigate Borthwick for because we lost.

Montpellier deserve some praise for the way they defended, closed down Tigers dangerous runners and put together 2 very well worked tries.
Leicester did some things very well, but its clear they are not confident about moving the ball and that does limit their attacking options. They weren't helped by some less than precise kicking, which too often gifted easy ball to their opponents. I thought Cole and Youngs were subbed too early and Wiggy too late.

Another major thing that Montpellier deserve praise for is shutting down our maul. The couldn't cope with it in the first half, but in the second they got niggly, cheated early (and far more subtly) and disrupted us very efficiently. Massive turnaround to achieve mid-match.

Puja

[Banquo]

Kicking for territory is hardly a new thing, nor an Eddie Jones thing, and the analysis for it is hardly rocket science.

As Bob Dwyer sort of said, any fool can coach a side to win using kicking. The problem comes when the other side are better at kick tennis.

[loudnconfident]

Front-row bottom of the South Stand so missed Leicester attacks in 2nd half. Did Ford turn down two penalties and go for touch when 1 point down. We all thought "penalty - great"" and then they went for the corner. Wierd.
Twickenham very officious on mask-wearing even when sitting down - encourages one to drink as you can be mask-free with a pint... Also Twickers' new app had problems: it didnt show the seat/row numbesr under the ticket barcode so no-one knew where to sit...

[Puja]

To be fair, they were close to the touchline and our maul had been dominant, so I was supportive of both calls. A try would have put us in the box seat, while getting 2 points ahead would've left us very vulnerable to a Pollard 60m kick.

Puja

[Oakboy]

Kicking for territory is hardly a new thing, nor an Eddie Jones thing, and the analysis for it is hardly rocket science.

As Bob Dwyer sort of said, any fool can coach a side to win using kicking. The problem comes when the other side are better at kick tennis.

Does Mr Dwyer put on record his opinion of someone who coaches a side to lose using kicking? I see the over-use of kicking as an attempt to not lose or, at least, not to lose too badly. Winning is almost a bit of a sneak to get away with after using up as much of the 80 minutes as possible. It may work but I'd rather lose trying to play rugby and win the game. I accept that it makes me a bit of a dinosaur these days.

[Banquo]

Kicking for territory is hardly a new thing, nor an Eddie Jones thing, and the analysis for it is hardly rocket science.

As Bob Dwyer sort of said, any fool can coach a side to win using kicking. The problem comes when the other side are better at kick tennis.

Does Mr Dwyer put on record his opinion of someone who coaches a side to lose using kicking? I see the over-use of kicking as an attempt to not lose or, at least, not to lose too badly. Winning is almost a bit of a sneak to get away with after using up as much of the 80 minutes as possible. It may work but I'd rather lose trying to play rugby and win the game. I accept that it makes me a bit of a dinosaur these days.

Not really- what would be dinosaur like is not to accept that there is more than one way of skinning a cat. Kicking IS playing rugby, as much as passing, running, mauling etc. And I'm afraid the objective/aim of any game is surely to win? As an ex player and coach, didn't really care overly how winning happened (drawing the line at overt cheating) to be honest. Your corinthian view of the game is well and good, but if the side you have simply cannot succeed playing the style you advocate, then it would seem like madness to lose week in week out trying to do so; you may accept (a couple of) losses if building a grand plan, but most coaches and many players do not have that luxury, nor is it fun. That said, you don't necessarily set 'winning' as an objective on a game by game basis- though I think that should always be the aim, even when developing a side; your objectives should be about executing everything you have planned well, including what happens when the oppostion don't comply.

I take enjoyment as a spectator for all the elements of the game and how they are used by different sides in different ways is a great part of the attraction of RU; but intrinsically, that also makes the game hard in terms of mass appeal........