Leicester vs Bristol - Saturday

[Puja]

No it was brought into the law a while back. If you go down to uncontested because of yellow card then you have to sacrifice another player. It's to stop exactly what Lam and co were trying to get away with which is where your scrum is being humped and you go "yeah sorry, no more props". As soon as Tempest insisted that Bristol would go down to 13 the conversation started taking a different turn. Bristol wanted to be down 14 but with uncontested. Down to 13 but forced to have 8 in the scrum was not what they fancied.

Good knowledge; thanks. On the bright side, it hopefully shouldn't make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. Bristol were always gonna get a home semi and it'd take an unlucky set of results to see us not qualify for Europe from here.

There is a player might reasonably go off as a tactical sub and then realise they've picked up an injury once cooling down on the sidelines. Whatever there was a game for Leicester to win quite easily there, but whilst they had a maul and scrum they had little to no ability to pass the ball, and that caused a few problems, some comically bad passing, some comically bad refusing to pass in case the pass was comically bad just butchering chances to score. This likely still represents serious progress for Leicester

If they'd argued that, then I'd have less of a problem. It was the obdurate insistence that he'd only been substituted because he was injured, followed by the insistence that he was fine to play once they were told they'd go down to 13.

We are indeed half of a team at the moment - great set piece, solid defence, any and all attack is TBC. Not unreasonable given that we were building up from a base of sod-all, combined with our attack coach quitting because he couldn't justify moving his family from COVID-free New Zealand to the UK. Given a pre-season and a hiring of a new attack coach, I'm confident that we'll be an actual full team next season. And even with only half a game plan, it's a hell of an improvement on the last few seasons!

Puja

[Spiffy]

Malins made some blunders too but his good moments stood out. Steward just isnt doing quite enough with the ball for me.

Randall made a difference for Bris.

Malins and Steward are quite different kinds of FB. Steward is defensively orientated, good under the high ball and a big powerful bloke. Malins has more of an attacking mindset (having played a lot at 10), runs better lines, has better footwork, and is faster. He is not a bad defender either. He is clearly the better all round footballer/game reader. Steward is very young, has played well this season and will definitely improve. I get the impression that he's a tad lacking in real gas, but may be wrong. He looks like a Mike Brown type FB, so far without Brown's competitive edge. At present I'd rate Malins ahead of Daly. He could well play himself on to a starting slot for England next season.

[Which Tyler]

Malins and Steward are quite different kinds of FB. Steward is defensively orientated, good under the high ball and a big powerful bloke. Malins has more of an attacking mindset (having played a lot at 10), runs better lines, has better footwork, and is faster. He is not a bad defender either. He is clearly the better all round footballer/game reader. Steward is very young, has played well this season and will definitely improve. I get the impression that he's a tad lacking in real gas, but may be wrong. He looks like a Mike Brown type FB, so far without Brown's competitive edge. At present I'd rate Malins ahead of Daly. He could well play himself on to a starting slot for England next season.

The biggest single difference (and the reason I wouldn't have Steward as anything but emergency cover on a denuded summer schedule) is that Steward's in his first season.
I never champion players to be capped in their breakthrough season - give them a chance to suffer and learn, or avoid Second Season Syndrome - we've all seen so many players arrive at the top table, and look a future 100 cap international, declared as the new messiah, only to disappear to "solid club pro" immediately afterwards.

Give him a chance to have a pre-season working with his with coaches, rounding is game off, and strengthen his weaknesses.
Give opposition teams a chance to look at his videos and come up with weaknesses to exploit.

If he, or any other debutante, is still looking like a world beater in September & October of their second season, then the Autumn series will always be soon enough. No player has ever had their career ruined by waiting that extra 6 months before being capped; several have by not waiting (or rather, some were busted flushes, so not ruined, just overhyped before they were worked out)

[FKAS]

Malins and Steward are quite different kinds of FB. Steward is defensively orientated, good under the high ball and a big powerful bloke. Malins has more of an attacking mindset (having played a lot at 10), runs better lines, has better footwork, and is faster. He is not a bad defender either. He is clearly the better all round footballer/game reader. Steward is very young, has played well this season and will definitely improve. I get the impression that he's a tad lacking in real gas, but may be wrong. He looks like a Mike Brown type FB, so far without Brown's competitive edge. At present I'd rate Malins ahead of Daly. He could well play himself on to a starting slot for England next season.

The biggest single difference (and the reason I wouldn't have Steward as anything but emergency cover on a denuded summer schedule) is that Steward's in his first season.
I never champion players to be capped in their breakthrough season - give them a chance to suffer and learn, or avoid Second Season Syndrome - we've all seen so many players arrive at the top table, and look a future 100 cap international, declared as the new messiah, only to disappear to "solid club pro" immediately afterwards.

Give him a chance to have a pre-season working with his with coaches, rounding is game off, and strengthen his weaknesses.
Give opposition teams a chance to look at his videos and come up with weaknesses to exploit.

If he, or any other debutante, is still looking like a world beater in September & October of their second season, then the Autumn series will always be soon enough. No player has ever had their career ruined by waiting that extra 6 months before being capped; several have by not waiting (or rather, some were busted flushes, so not ruined, just overhyped before they were worked out)

Normally I'd agree with not capping on a knee jerk reaction but there's an A game to be played and I think Steward would benefit from being in and around the England camp and those coaches and players. He's a prime candidate for the A game.

On Steward, did anyone notice that Bristol at no point tried to kick to contest? Everything was long or to touch. We've seen that a few times against Steward where the opposition just won't risk testing his aerial prowess. On the pace front he's not rapid but that long stride of his does eat up the ground in a very deceptive way. His attacking play is coming on but in a makeshift attacking structure and adapting to senior rugby it's still a work in progress. I think he would benefit from being in camp with the likes of Malins who's four years older and just seeing what they are doing and learning in a different environment. An A game appearance is probably all he needs at the minute.

[Raggs]

Lam may well have taken Afoa off because he feared he was injured/injury risk. Afoa seemed to convince him that he was happy to give it a go for the last few minutes. I don't know if Lam lied, but he may well have taken advantage of the fact that it was down as tactical, meaning he could get him back on.

Bristol definitely won that last scrum though, Genge went backwards and angled completely in. Always felt that repeated scrums are such a risk because it can so easily just end up going the other way almost randomly.

[Digby]

I'm pretty sure Lam followed lie with bullshit and then repeated it.

That Leicester seemed to have no option other than pushover try or force a penalty try from the scrum isn't Lam's fault however, and yep, repeat the scrum and you do run the risk of a call going against you even if just a rank bad call

[Mellsblue]

Not sure which is my favourite bit: the pass to Radradra or Leicester 12 (I think) going for the jackal when the ball was already 10 yards further down the pitch.

[Digby]

I lied the Leicester 15 booting away attacking ball to gift Brizzle ball under no pressure to start that whole move, but either of the ball transfers by Brizzle are the real class in that

[Doorzetbornandbred]

Sinckler called into Lions Squad over injury concern with Porter.

[Digby]

Bollocks

[Tigersman]

I think the kick was fine.
The biggest thing for me and it's something Tigers struggle with when Potter (IMO tigers best current Winger) isn't on the pitch we tend to only have one chaser, and that is Steward.

Against a team like Bristol you need at least 2 gunners if Steward had say Potter on his inside then I don't think Malins makes that step.

It's something we have struggled with is the lack of pace.

Nadolo IMO isn't 100% fully recovered from his injury. Even then he isn't a speed merchant (Although prob the best wing jackler in the league which is something I guess)
Murimurivalu is alright but IMO a 15 not a wing.
Porter is quick but he's a centre and his positional play is a weakness on the wing
Van Wyk been pretty useless
We have Olowofela who is quick but is he defensively strong enough for an effective kick chase.
Aspland-Robinson sounded like he played well with Coventry don't know if tigers are keeping him I hope he can get a run of injury free games whereever he lands.

You can't play an effective kick chase without fast wings to apply pressure not just on the jumper but the 10m around the player catching and Tigers need to learn that.
The only way it can work is if you have a kicker like Ford who is on a good day and is putting up 50M+ high balls and it travelling 20-30m because it will always give Steward a 1 on 1 with the opposition jumper and I would back him or the opposition to knock it on 8 times out of 10.

[Doorzetbornandbred]

Bollocks

You dont believe me or that Porter is injured?

[Raggs]

Bollocks

You dont believe me or that Porter is injured?

I suspect he's annoyed that Sinkler will now be playing in the Lions, so not getting more of a rest.

[Digby]

Bollocks

You dont believe me or that Porter is injured?

I suspect he's annoyed that Sinkler will now be playing in the Lions, so not getting more of a rest.

Boring and predictable are my middle names

[Digby]

One further thought on, and it might have already been mentioned. Leicester are over on the left hand side of the field and as has been observed since time immemorial especially when on the left of the field you want channel 3 ball on attack there to get as far away from the oppo 9 as possible to give you an easier time moving the ball wide(r). But Leicester at no point had shown much intent and/or ability to move the ball wide, so why not just setup to take channel 2 or frankly even channel 1 ball. Yes the scrum gets nudged back and Wiggle feeds the ball in anyway, and yes the strike os cocked up, but the 8 is behind the tighthead lock and he can't get across once the ball comes out (and for me the ball does come out, just)

Given the ambition seemed to be to keep the ball in the scrum it seems a little odd to make the more attacking setup with the channel at the scrum

[Digby]

I think the kick was fine.
The biggest thing for me and it's something Tigers struggle with when Potter (IMO tigers best current Winger) isn't on the pitch we tend to only have one chaser, and that is Steward.

Against a team like Bristol you need at least 2 gunners if Steward had say Potter on his inside then I don't think Malins makes that step.

It's something we have struggled with is the lack of pace.

Nadolo IMO isn't 100% fully recovered from his injury. Even then he isn't a speed merchant (Although prob the best wing jackler in the league which is something I guess)
Murimurivalu is alright but IMO a 15 not a wing.
Porter is quick but he's a centre and his positional play is a weakness on the wing
Van Wyk been pretty useless
We have Olowofela who is quick but is he defensively strong enough for an effective kick chase.
Aspland-Robinson sounded like he played well with Coventry don't know if tigers are keeping him I hope he can get a run of injury free games whereever he lands.

You can't play an effective kick chase without fast wings to apply pressure not just on the jumper but the 10m around the player catching and Tigers need to learn that.
The only way it can work is if you have a kicker like Ford who is on a good day and is putting up 50M+ high balls and it travelling 20-30m because it will always give Steward a 1 on 1 with the opposition jumper and I would back him or the opposition to knock it on 8 times out of 10.

The 15 isn't close to putting pressure on the catcher, maybe a winger there too helps, but frankly the kick looks just a little too long. One other thing once he's kicked the ball too far Leicester 15 first spots a chance for him to stay up in the line and take a breather whilst pointing for someone else to drop back and cover his error, and then once he realises the ball is moving up the field calmly ambles very slowly backwards making sod all effort to atone for his error twice over. All round it's not great from the fullback, both the execution of the kick, the chase, and then having a bad attitude (in that moment) to work to try and correct.

[Mikey Brown]

Just seen the whole Afoa/Lam episode. Really, really poor stuff from Lam. Caught red handed.

[FKAS]

I think the kick was fine.
The biggest thing for me and it's something Tigers struggle with when Potter (IMO tigers best current Winger) isn't on the pitch we tend to only have one chaser, and that is Steward.

Against a team like Bristol you need at least 2 gunners if Steward had say Potter on his inside then I don't think Malins makes that step.

It's something we have struggled with is the lack of pace.

Nadolo IMO isn't 100% fully recovered from his injury. Even then he isn't a speed merchant (Although prob the best wing jackler in the league which is something I guess)
Murimurivalu is alright but IMO a 15 not a wing.
Porter is quick but he's a centre and his positional play is a weakness on the wing
Van Wyk been pretty useless
We have Olowofela who is quick but is he defensively strong enough for an effective kick chase.
Aspland-Robinson sounded like he played well with Coventry don't know if tigers are keeping him I hope he can get a run of injury free games whereever he lands.

You can't play an effective kick chase without fast wings to apply pressure not just on the jumper but the 10m around the player catching and Tigers need to learn that.
The only way it can work is if you have a kicker like Ford who is on a good day and is putting up 50M+ high balls and it travelling 20-30m because it will always give Steward a 1 on 1 with the opposition jumper and I would back him or the opposition to knock it on 8 times out of 10.

The 15 isn't close to putting pressure on the catcher, maybe a winger there too helps, but frankly the kick looks just a little too long. One other thing once he's kicked the ball too far Leicester 15 first spots a chance for him to stay up in the line and take a breather whilst pointing for someone else to drop back and cover his error, and then once he realises the ball is moving up the field calmly ambles very slowly backwards making sod all effort to atone for his error twice over. All round it's not great from the fullback, both the execution of the kick, the chase, and then having a bad attitude (in that moment) to work to try and correct.

Steward chases well. The kick is to long but does drop just outside of the 22 the problem is there's no support with him. He gets back into the line after the tackle and starts communicating with those outside of him to organise the line. Which is what he's supposed to do. There's players behind him in the backfield so there's not point him running back and leaving a huge gap in the defence. Scott rolls away to efficiently and Malins uses the time to pop to Piatau who goes straight through the middle. Only real error by Steward is to turn his back on the ruck, always keep the ball in your peripheral vision. Not sure he'd have got to Piatau anyway unless he was following up to contest at the breakdown.

[Spiffy]

Malins and Steward are quite different kinds of FB. Steward is defensively orientated, good under the high ball and a big powerful bloke. Malins has more of an attacking mindset (having played a lot at 10), runs better lines, has better footwork, and is faster. He is not a bad defender either. He is clearly the better all round footballer/game reader. Steward is very young, has played well this season and will definitely improve. I get the impression that he's a tad lacking in real gas, but may be wrong. He looks like a Mike Brown type FB, so far without Brown's competitive edge. At present I'd rate Malins ahead of Daly. He could well play himself on to a starting slot for England next season.

The biggest single difference (and the reason I wouldn't have Steward as anything but emergency cover on a denuded summer schedule) is that Steward's in his first season.
I never champion players to be capped in their breakthrough season - give them a chance to suffer and learn, or avoid Second Season Syndrome - we've all seen so many players arrive at the top table, and look a future 100 cap international, declared as the new messiah, only to disappear to "solid club pro" immediately afterwards.

Give him a chance to have a pre-season working with his with coaches, rounding is game off, and strengthen his weaknesses.
Give opposition teams a chance to look at his videos and come up with weaknesses to exploit.

If he, or any other debutante, is still looking like a world beater in September & October of their second season, then the Autumn series will always be soon enough. No player has ever had their career ruined by waiting that extra 6 months before being capped; several have by not waiting (or rather, some were busted flushes, so not ruined, just overhyped before they were worked out)

Normally I'd agree with not capping on a knee jerk reaction but there's an A game to be played and I think Steward would benefit from being in and around the England camp and those coaches and players. He's a prime candidate for the A game.

On Steward, did anyone notice that Bristol at no point tried to kick to contest? Everything was long or to touch. We've seen that a few times against Steward where the opposition just won't risk testing his aerial prowess. On the pace front he's not rapid but that long stride of his does eat up the ground in a very deceptive way. His attacking play is coming on but in a makeshift attacking structure and adapting to senior rugby it's still a work in progress. I think he would benefit from being in camp with the likes of Malins who's four years older and just seeing what they are doing and learning in a different environment. An A game appearance is probably all he needs at the minute.

Re. young FBs Freeman of Saints is also only 20 and is having a great season. Pace to burn, great step and a rugby brain. He may not be as powerful as Steward but looks ahead of him as an all-round footballer. He would be just as deserving , possibly more so, as Steward for an A cap.

[FKAS]

The biggest single difference (and the reason I wouldn't have Steward as anything but emergency cover on a denuded summer schedule) is that Steward's in his first season.
I never champion players to be capped in their breakthrough season - give them a chance to suffer and learn, or avoid Second Season Syndrome - we've all seen so many players arrive at the top table, and look a future 100 cap international, declared as the new messiah, only to disappear to "solid club pro" immediately afterwards.

Give him a chance to have a pre-season working with his with coaches, rounding is game off, and strengthen his weaknesses.
Give opposition teams a chance to look at his videos and come up with weaknesses to exploit.

If he, or any other debutante, is still looking like a world beater in September & October of their second season, then the Autumn series will always be soon enough. No player has ever had their career ruined by waiting that extra 6 months before being capped; several have by not waiting (or rather, some were busted flushes, so not ruined, just overhyped before they were worked out)

Normally I'd agree with not capping on a knee jerk reaction but there's an A game to be played and I think Steward would benefit from being in and around the England camp and those coaches and players. He's a prime candidate for the A game.

On Steward, did anyone notice that Bristol at no point tried to kick to contest? Everything was long or to touch. We've seen that a few times against Steward where the opposition just won't risk testing his aerial prowess. On the pace front he's not rapid but that long stride of his does eat up the ground in a very deceptive way. His attacking play is coming on but in a makeshift attacking structure and adapting to senior rugby it's still a work in progress. I think he would benefit from being in camp with the likes of Malins who's four years older and just seeing what they are doing and learning in a different environment. An A game appearance is probably all he needs at the minute.

Re. young FBs Freeman of Saints is also only 20 and is having a great season. Pace to burn, great step and a rugby brain. He may not be as powerful as Steward but looks ahead of him as an all-round footballer. He would be just as deserving , possibly more so, as Steward for an A cap.

I like Freeman a lot, offensively he looks a real firecracker. Positionally and under the high ball Steward is streets ahead. I can see Freeman maybe going onto the wing initially for England in Watson type role. Use the pace and footwork out wide and add to the kick chase. He's a good shout for the A team.

Possibly more deserving is a bit harsh on Steward who's gone from development player on loan at Ampthill to first team regular playing all bar two games (I think) for Tigers inside 12 months. Harsh time he's had of it at the back behind a team that didn't have pre season (training ground closed due to Covid) and their key playmakers missing with England. He's done a lot of mopping up at the back and a lot of the unfashionable stuff for Tigers who don't have much attacking game plan nor an attack coach to let him show off his skills.

The English stocks at fullback are ridiculous currently with Malins, Steward, Freeman, Parton and Hodge (who's a little bit behind but has masses of potential) all under 25. Four of the five are regulars in their Prem teams. Daly will be lucky to hang onto the shirt. All five of the fullbacks offer a slightly different skillset as well just to make Eddie's life more interesting.

[Digby]

I think the kick was fine.
The biggest thing for me and it's something Tigers struggle with when Potter (IMO tigers best current Winger) isn't on the pitch we tend to only have one chaser, and that is Steward.

Against a team like Bristol you need at least 2 gunners if Steward had say Potter on his inside then I don't think Malins makes that step.

It's something we have struggled with is the lack of pace.

Nadolo IMO isn't 100% fully recovered from his injury. Even then he isn't a speed merchant (Although prob the best wing jackler in the league which is something I guess)
Murimurivalu is alright but IMO a 15 not a wing.
Porter is quick but he's a centre and his positional play is a weakness on the wing
Van Wyk been pretty useless
We have Olowofela who is quick but is he defensively strong enough for an effective kick chase.
Aspland-Robinson sounded like he played well with Coventry don't know if tigers are keeping him I hope he can get a run of injury free games whereever he lands.

You can't play an effective kick chase without fast wings to apply pressure not just on the jumper but the 10m around the player catching and Tigers need to learn that.
The only way it can work is if you have a kicker like Ford who is on a good day and is putting up 50M+ high balls and it travelling 20-30m because it will always give Steward a 1 on 1 with the opposition jumper and I would back him or the opposition to knock it on 8 times out of 10.

The 15 isn't close to putting pressure on the catcher, maybe a winger there too helps, but frankly the kick looks just a little too long. One other thing once he's kicked the ball too far Leicester 15 first spots a chance for him to stay up in the line and take a breather whilst pointing for someone else to drop back and cover his error, and then once he realises the ball is moving up the field calmly ambles very slowly backwards making sod all effort to atone for his error twice over. All round it's not great from the fullback, both the execution of the kick, the chase, and then having a bad attitude (in that moment) to work to try and correct.

Steward chases well. The kick is to long but does drop just outside of the 22 the problem is there's no support with him. He gets back into the line after the tackle and starts communicating with those outside of him to organise the line. Which is what he's supposed to do. There's players behind him in the backfield so there's not point him running back and leaving a huge gap in the defence. Scott rolls away to efficiently and Malins uses the time to pop to Piatau who goes straight through the middle. Only real error by Steward is to turn his back on the ruck, always keep the ball in your peripheral vision. Not sure he'd have got to Piatau anyway unless he was following up to contest at the breakdown.

If he has no support for the chase and he's a bit slow to get up there then maybe don't kick the sodding thing away to start with. You can't call a play there's no support for and then say it's not on you it doesn't work out, it's on you to be aware not just amble into a decision

And gets back in the line? Maybe, sort of, for the ruck that doesn't really last, but after that he doesn't, and had he straight away worked his proverbials off after his mistake maybe he'd have been in position to do something. He took a moment to catch his breath, and it turns out he didn't have that moment, and this really is a big thing in terms of looking to take a step up

None of this is too bad in a young player, but if he's being talked about for England then not paying attention to the game, not working off the ball, wanging a pass forward many metres off his left hand, okay being with England might benefit him, it's just not obvious it'd benefit England. Probably a few young 15s ahead of him right now, and Daly still looks a much better player too. To which he hopefully merely responds by improving out of sight

[jimKRFC]

Well that was exciting watching! Manged to watch the game last night and it was pretty enteraining... Bristol looked good in spells, Leicester fronted up well and put Bristol under huge pressure and had plenty of chances to win it.

I thought Tempest has a fairly poor game, backed up by both sets of supporters moaning about him. From a Bristol lens Nadolo got let off for his no arms hit to Malins head and his late, off the ball trip, letting Leics playing the ball off their feet and the forward pass try (Bris have had several way less forward passes pinged).

Tempest did do better in the kerfuffle at the end though.

Firstly, I don't agree with the comments Pat made about Tempest being to blame if Afoa was injured - that was completely uncalled for.

For back ground Afoa has been out injured and is being managed back into the team. The team manager on the day was also not the normal manager (Nick Fenton-Wells) but the back up. It is clear plan was to take Afoa at half time - thus it is a "tactical" replacment, however the reason for this tactical change was injury. It is possible that the normal manager would know the expectation is to mark it as "injury replacement" rather than "tactical" or at least notify Lam that is was down as "tactical". So clear potential for cock up rather than planned cheating.

I also think that it would have resolved far quicker, and with less drama, if Borthwick and Wigglesworth had kept out of it. Their presence in the Bristol area escalated the whole thing (are they even allowed to be there?).

To address the claims of "Bristol cheated" it would seem no laws were broken - prop binned, other player leaves, replacement came on. It took a while but they did get there. Bristol may have tried it on, there was definitely some gamesmanship, and I'd rather it hadn't happened but there appears to be no law breaking.

The final scrum: Having got what Borthwick, Wigglesworth and Genge wanted in Afoa back on we have the last drama. Afoa does Genge (as he did all first half), Leibenburg loses the ball out the side and Uren clears.

The afters:
Afoa shouldn't have wound Wiggles up. However, that doesn't mean Wiggles has the right to throw him down and start punching.
Hughes pulls Genge away (after coming to get involved), Genge turns and starts puching.
Youngs - given Sinckle got a 3 match ban for "are you fucking joking" what will youngs get for his swearing at the ref and criticizing the refs decisions?

I suspect the RFU will review it and it'll be smacked wrists all round for Bristol and nothing for anyone from Leicester.

All that's about all I have to say on that....

[Mikey Brown]

That all sounds awfully generous to Bristol. Afoa didn’t do anything wrong until the end where he looked like an absolute prick.

I wouldn’t say Bristol cheated, but only because Lam realised his attempt to con the ref wouldn’t actually have benefited his team.

[Puja]

Well that was exciting watching! Manged to watch the game last night and it was pretty enteraining... Bristol looked good in spells, Leicester fronted up well and put Bristol under huge pressure and had plenty of chances to win it.

I thought Tempest has a fairly poor game, backed up by both sets of supporters moaning about him. From a Bristol lens Nadolo got let off for his no arms hit to Malins head and his late, off the ball trip, letting Leics playing the ball off their feet and the forward pass try (Bris have had several way less forward passes pinged).

Tempest did do better in the kerfuffle at the end though.

Firstly, I don't agree with the comments Pat made about Tempest being to blame if Afoa was injured - that was completely uncalled for.

For back ground Afoa has been out injured and is being managed back into the team. The team manager on the day was also not the normal manager (Nick Fenton-Wells) but the back up. It is clear plan was to take Afoa at half time - thus it is a "tactical" replacment, however the reason for this tactical change was injury. It is possible that the normal manager would know the expectation is to mark it as "injury replacement" rather than "tactical" or at least notify Lam that is was down as "tactical". So clear potential for cock up rather than planned cheating.

I also think that it would have resolved far quicker, and with less drama, if Borthwick and Wigglesworth had kept out of it. Their presence in the Bristol area escalated the whole thing (are they even allowed to be there?).

To address the claims of "Bristol cheated" it would seem no laws were broken - prop binned, other player leaves, replacement came on. It took a while but they did get there. Bristol may have tried it on, there was definitely some gamesmanship, and I'd rather it hadn't happened but there appears to be no law breaking.

The final scrum: Having got what Borthwick, Wigglesworth and Genge wanted in Afoa back on we have the last drama. Afoa does Genge (as he did all first half), Leibenburg loses the ball out the side and Uren clears.

The afters:
Afoa shouldn't have wound Wiggles up. However, that doesn't mean Wiggles has the right to throw him down and start punching.
Hughes pulls Genge away (after coming to get involved), Genge turns and starts puching.
Youngs - given Sinckle got a 3 match ban for "are you fucking joking" what will youngs get for his swearing at the ref and criticizing the refs decisions?

I suspect the RFU will review it and it'll be smacked wrists all round for Bristol and nothing for anyone from Leicester.

All that's about all I have to say on that....

I question your claim that Afoa did Genge, either in the first half or at the end - got an early shove, but Genge recovered and drove back, at which point Afoa folded inward and should have conceded a penalty. Liebenberg lost the ball because the scrum shot forwards. On rewatch, I think you're probably right that the ball was just out of the scrum when Uren went for it - very, very close and could easily have been pinged, but on close examination we'll call it excellent scrum-half play.

You're absolutely right on the afters - Wigglesworth should be banned for losing his rag and chucking some fairly solid punches and Genge needed to control himself better (although he was pulled away by the back of his collar which wasn't exactly calming crowd control by Hughes).

Puja

[fivepointer]

My estimation of Lam went down after Saturday. Bristol were trying it on and it wasnt a good look. Neither was the scuffle on the final whistle, instigated it appeared by Afoa getting into Wiggy's ear. All round the games reputation can do without what we saw.