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Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:10 pm
by twitchy
(Missing a load of graphics if it seems dis jointed).
England team analysis: How moving Maro Itoje to blindside will unleash Alex Dombrandt at No 8
Saturday will represent Maro Itoje’s 53rd cap for England and the eighth appearance of his Test career in the number-six shirt. Students of the Eddie Jones era will remember that he started all five matches of the successful 2017 Six Nations campaign at blindside flanker, behind a lock duo of Joe Launchbury and Courtney Lawes.
Itoje often packed down for scrums in the second row during that tournament. It feels like a long, long time ago.
Since then, the 27-year-old has been named in England’s run-on back row twice, against Samoa in 2017 and against Georgia in 2020. Charlie Ewels started on each of those occasions as well. The strategy is clear. Jones wants lineout dominance from the beginning, with Jamie George at hooker and Nick Isiekwe and Ewels occupying the engine room, to snuff out any opportunity for Italy to gather momentum.
Besides set-piece steel and disruptive defence, added heft should free up Alex Dombrandt to roam. Ellis Genge and Tom Curry showed themselves willing to roll up their sleeves in the middle of the pitch against Scotland and will do so again. On Friday lunchtime, Jones suggested that “we want to get a bit more running out of Maro”. The more that Itoje carries in heavy traffic, the more opportunities Dombrandt should have to carve trademark angles.
After registering nine carries on his Test debut against Canada last summer, Dombrandt has been peripheral as an attacking force on England duty. He accumulated four carries as a half-time replacement against Tonga in November and four more during another cameo from the bench in the victory over Australia, including an eye-catching break from Manu Tuilagi’s offload.
The following week against South Africa, though, Dombrandt did not make a single carry in 26 minutes. According to Opta, this understated restart receipt was his one and only carry at Murrayfield:
Dombrandt arrived from the bench last weekend in the same batch of changes that saw Marcus Smith replaced by George, so there was no chance for the pair to challenge Scotland with the telepathic connection that so often inspires Harlequins in phase-play.
This try against Cardiff in the Champions Cup, from 3mins 19 secs, finished by Luke Northmore after Seb Davies presses up to ruffle Smith, is a prime example of how Dombrandt hunts the shoulder of his fly-half to create openings:
Sam Simmonds is unfortunate. His explosive acceleration generated quick ball for England on more than one occasion against Scotland, only for indecision and inaccurate breakdown work to thwart the visitors. Then again, he should enjoy himself late on. As highlighted by statistician Russ Petty, England have plundered 248 second-half points across their last nine matches against Italy at an average of just under 28 per second half. Simmonds, Luke Cowan-Dickie and Elliot Daly are slippery impact players and Ollie Chessum packs a punch.
The need for Itoje to move to blindside flanker does underline England’s lack of a back-row bopper such as Dave Ewers or Ted Hill. Unthinkably, those two have a single cap between them. Even so, Itoje’s shift comes with Dombrandt – and how he can enhance England’s attack – in mind.
Another thing to look out for from the Harlequin is crafty breakdown spoiling. It is an area in which he has excelled of late.
A show of faith in Harry Randall
Making sense of England’s scrum-half selection process remains a tricky business. Raffi Quirke’s try-scoring appearance against South Africa last November has not been enough for him to survive the midweek squad cull for either of the first two rounds of this tournament.
Then again, Randall is an exciting operator bound to add zip. Over the current Premiership season, he and Danny Care have been the most evasive scrum-halves on show:
The 24-year-old, who faced USA and Canada in July at Twickenham, has also accumulated the highest number of ‘initial breaks’ in the league – defined by Opta as line-breaks that do not come from support lines:
More important than his running game, though, is Randall’s distribution. His speed between rucks and the consistency and pace of his pass will be under the microscope against Italy.
Opposing wings will have to stay alert. Here, against Bristol in January, Bristol Bears run a clever two-phase strike-move. Randall launches Semi Radradra from a lineout and then drops back to first-receiver.
After being fed by hooker Will Capon, he loops a pass over the top of Byron McGuigan as Sale’s defence jams in. With his front line narrow, Luke James has to press up from full-back:
The kicking of Randall has, however, hindered Bristol at times. Indeed, no scrum-half has committed more box-kick errors this season:
Supporters of Ben Youngs will note that the Leicester Tiger features on both of the top two tables in this section. Besides, he has only skewed one strike out on the full in Premiership action, against Exeter Chiefs at the beginning of the season.
Turning to Randall, then, is a proactive move. Only five different players have started at scrum-half since Jones became head coach of England. The Bristol man has a big chance.
“We want to start fast and take the game to them,” was a quote from Jones attached to the RFU team press release. Watch out for quick-tap penalties.
Max Malins stays to maintain balance
England were not the only team to be beaten by two kicks in quick succession last weekend. France also conceded a try after their back-field defence had been dragged out of position.
It was Paolo Garbisi rather than Finn Russell who capitalised in Paris, finding Tommaso Menoncello centimetres from the touchline to put Italy ahead. Moments before the fly-half’s cross-field kick-pass, Stephen Varney had hoisted a box-kick that Melvyn Jaminet failed to gather:
Max Malins and Freddie Steward are given another game to develop their back-field relationship, which malfunctioned for the fateful penalty try awarded to Scotland. Garbisi will test them just as Russell did in Edinburgh. This is not just a defensive measure, either. England are eager to launch counters. They have openly prioritised this since before the autumn.
Dropping Daly and bringing in Jack Nowell, with Joe Marchant slipping to outside centre – more permanently rather than just from lineout strikes – also gives England’s backline greater balance. Nowell will scurry around breakdowns as part of a selection that appears less slanted towards kicking.
Jones has promised that England’s attack will improve with cohesion. Keeping together Smith, Henry Slade and Marchant, surely sharper after a week of team training, should help that.
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:16 pm
by Freddo
That's a stodgy backline.
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:55 pm
by Mikey Brown
So the key for Itoje unlocking Dombrandt’s quality from 6 is hoping he suddenly becomes a more impressive tight carrier. Right.
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:10 pm
by Peej
I'm not convinced Malins is a top tier international winger
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:14 pm
by Mellsblue
I’m not convinced he’s a winger (or at least what I want from a wing).
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:57 pm
by Mikey Brown
I feel like he’d be a great asset as a winger if you’ve got two big bashing centres and need a JSD type, but in this backline he seems to be not much more than a good kick chaser.
Agreed he doesn’t really seem like a wing overall though.
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:58 pm
by twitchy
How has coka been for bath since his comeback?
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:00 pm
by Puja
I think he's got all the skills and talent to be an excellent international wing, but is hampered by the fact that we haven't really given him much good ball to work with in his few caps so far. Hasn't been presented with even a sniff of good attacking ball as of yet.
Puja
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:02 pm
by p/d
Mikey Brown wrote:I feel like he’d be a great asset as a winger if you’ve got two big bashing centres and need a JSD type, but in this backline he seems to be not much more than a good kick chaser.
Agreed he doesn’t really seem like a wing overall though.
This. The role he played last week wasn’t ideal. I really rate the guy and do think he makes for a good/v good winger at test level
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:03 pm
by p/d
Puja wrote:I think he's got all the skills and talent to be an excellent international wing, but is hampered by the fact that we haven't really given him much good ball to work with in his few caps so far. Hasn't been presented with even a sniff of good attacking ball as of yet.
Puja
Well this then
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:16 pm
by Oakboy
Whatever Malins' merits, at least he and Steward have been given a few games to consolidate - unlike others. I'm a big Nowell fan but I can't help thinking that it should me him OR Malins on one wing with a speed merchant on the other. I suppose that could be Daly's role later in the game, assuming that Jones does not insist on trying to lever him in at centre or FB.
One area of interest for me will be how/when/if the other backs are used from the bench. I'd love to know the pre-match thinking and whether leaving Randall and Smith to do the whole 80 minutes is even considered. One obvious aside is that Jones cannot possibly have anything to learn about Youngs and Ford in any game context.
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:59 pm
by p/d
Youngs bound to come on to equal Leonard record and then be able to lead out the team at Twickers to mild applause
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:07 pm
by Puja
SDHoneymonster wrote:Puja wrote:That is certainly a team that he's named there. The good, I guess, is that we have two centres, two wingers, and a full-back, which is nice. If this signals the end of Eddie trying to reinvent the backline, I am all for it. However, if he's planning to go back to that hybrid thing in the future, why are we changing it for this game when it clearly needs practice to bed in? Plus, I think everyone else is aware that Randall could score 5 tries and be MotM and still will be dropped for the next game.
The pack is okay - is dropping LCD a good thing to do in terms of his confidence? Yes, it was the most inept and obvious professional foul ever seen by man or beast, but it was one mistake and, even if the plan was originally to rotate, doing it now sends the wrong message. Sinckler needs a kick up the backside and it's nice to see Chessum potentially getting a cap. However, if Ewels is ever the answer, then you have asked the wrong question, and why are we moving our one world class lock to be an okay back row, especially when Isiekwe is possibly better suited to 6 than 5?
Puja
Could also read it the other way, in that being rotated out against Italy probably means you're first choice for the bigger games? I suspect that's an overly generous assessment however, and I agree that the best thing for Cowan-Dickie would've probably been to get straight back on the horse and prove it was a blip rather than an audition for the Olympic volleyball team.
Apparently LCD picked up a small injury against Scotland and hasn't trained most of the week, so it's injury-based.
Italy team is out and mostly as expected:
Italy: Padovani; Mori, Brex, Zanon, Ioane; Garbisi, Varney; Fischetti, Lucchesi, Petro Ceccarelli, Cannone, Ruzza, Steyn, Lamaro (capt), Halafihi.
Replacements: Faiva, Traore, Pasquali, Sisi, Negri, Pettinelli, Fusco, Marin.
Italy are starting to build a really good side from their successful age group teams - it would've been unthinkable for them to have been able to bench Negri from a position of strength even just last season. Hopefully they'll save their big performance for a fortnight's time rather than targetting us.
Puja
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:19 pm
by Peej
Oakboy wrote:Whatever Malins' merits, at least he and Steward have been given a few games to consolidate - unlike others. I'm a big Nowell fan but I can't help thinking that it should me him OR Malins on one wing with a speed merchant on the other. I suppose that could be Daly's role later in the game, assuming that Jones does not insist on trying to lever him in at centre or FB.
One area of interest for me will be how/when/if the other backs are used from the bench. I'd love to know the pre-match thinking and whether leaving Randall and Smith to do the whole 80 minutes is even considered. One obvious aside is that Jones cannot possibly have anything to learn about Youngs and Ford in any game context.
This is mostly my feeling too. I think we need an out and out speed threat on the wing, or alternatively a big carrier. That said, I've just looked up NZ to see what they did when they went with the whole Cory Jane as second 15 on the wing thing, and they played Kahui or Sonny Bill on the other wing in the WC knock outs and final. So what do I know?
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:29 pm
by Which Tyler
twitchy wrote:How has coka been for bath since his comeback?
We'll tell you when he makes his comeback
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:45 pm
by twitchy
Which Tyler wrote:twitchy wrote:How has coka been for bath since his comeback?
We'll tell you when he makes his comeback
I swear I saw him playing for bath this season? Is my memory that shot?
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:50 pm
by Which Tyler
twitchy wrote:I swear I saw him playing for bath this season? Is my memory that shot?
Pretty sure his last match was against USA in the summer
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:23 pm
by Galfon
Every match these days seems like 'England Barbarians' given the scratch team appearance.So like the B-B' s, it might work but it might not (different part of the cycle y'see..)
Anything could happen, which makes it intriguing for the neutral maybe.

Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:30 pm
by Puja
twitchy wrote:Which Tyler wrote:twitchy wrote:How has coka been for bath since his comeback?
We'll tell you when he makes his comeback
I swear I saw him playing for bath this season? Is my memory that shot?
I believe I shared an article a few weeks back saying that he was back in training. Maybe that's what's got in your brain?
Puja
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:37 pm
by Banquo
francoisfou wrote:What's the spell that Ewels has on Eddie? What qualities does he have that a lot of us don't seem to be aware of?
On a positive note, the selection of Randall is encouraging and, lo and behold, centres who regularly play centre.
Good to see Nowell there too - a winger who should really hav had a loads more caps than he has.
Nowell generally is injured tbh. He’s also a tad slow for a winger, good club player, ok internationally.
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:46 pm
by Banquo
Btw, is every unit in the team pretty much brand new. Second row, back row, back three for sure; centres played v SA for 78 I suppose…. Have Randall and Smith played together much? front row haven’t started together as far as I know?
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:48 pm
by Stom
Does no one remember when Itoje wore the 6 shirt with Lawes at 5? And then packed down at lock anyway…
Pretty sure that’s what Eddie will go for again.
Other than that, team is good.
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:02 pm
by Mikey Brown
Peej wrote:Oakboy wrote:Whatever Malins' merits, at least he and Steward have been given a few games to consolidate - unlike others. I'm a big Nowell fan but I can't help thinking that it should me him OR Malins on one wing with a speed merchant on the other. I suppose that could be Daly's role later in the game, assuming that Jones does not insist on trying to lever him in at centre or FB.
One area of interest for me will be how/when/if the other backs are used from the bench. I'd love to know the pre-match thinking and whether leaving Randall and Smith to do the whole 80 minutes is even considered. One obvious aside is that Jones cannot possibly have anything to learn about Youngs and Ford in any game context.
This is mostly my feeling too. I think we need an out and out speed threat on the wing, or alternatively a big carrier. That said, I've just looked up NZ to see what they did when they went with the whole Cory Jane as second 15 on the wing thing, and they played Kahui or Sonny Bill on the other wing in the WC knock outs and final. So what do I know?
One strike winger and one back-fielder/fullback seemed to be their model for quite a long time, and it seemed a good one. Though they seemed to have an endless supply of lethal runners that would score 50 tries in 40 caps before getting usurped by one that was even better.
The mad positional stuff just seemed to be some sort of “oh no our team is too settled” panic that hit specifically at world cups - Muliaina at centre, SBW/Kahui on the wing etc. whereas Jones seems to be in this state constantly.
Is Malins slow? I keep reading that in this thread. I thought he was pretty quick, like a lot quicker than Nowell at the very least, but maybe that’s relative to my view of him as a fly-half or Alex Goode 2.0.
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:20 pm
by Puja
Banquo wrote:Btw, is every unit in the team pretty much brand new. Second row, back row, back three for sure; centres played v SA for 78 I suppose…. Have Randall and Smith played together much? front row haven’t started together as far as I know?
Randall and Smith played the two summer tests together.
Puja
Re: Italy vs England - Sunday 3pm
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:35 pm
by Oakboy
Mikey Brown wrote:Peej wrote:Oakboy wrote:Whatever Malins' merits, at least he and Steward have been given a few games to consolidate - unlike others. I'm a big Nowell fan but I can't help thinking that it should me him OR Malins on one wing with a speed merchant on the other. I suppose that could be Daly's role later in the game, assuming that Jones does not insist on trying to lever him in at centre or FB.
One area of interest for me will be how/when/if the other backs are used from the bench. I'd love to know the pre-match thinking and whether leaving Randall and Smith to do the whole 80 minutes is even considered. One obvious aside is that Jones cannot possibly have anything to learn about Youngs and Ford in any game context.
This is mostly my feeling too. I think we need an out and out speed threat on the wing, or alternatively a big carrier. That said, I've just looked up NZ to see what they did when they went with the whole Cory Jane as second 15 on the wing thing, and they played Kahui or Sonny Bill on the other wing in the WC knock outs and final. So what do I know?
One strike winger and one back-fielder/fullback seemed to be their model for quite a long time, and it seemed a good one. Though they seemed to have an endless supply of lethal runners that would score 50 tries in 40 caps before getting usurped by one that was even better.
The mad positional stuff just seemed to be some sort of “oh no our team is too settled” panic that hit specifically at world cups - Muliaina at centre, SBW/Kahui on the wing etc. whereas Jones seems to be in this state constantly.
Is Malins slow? I keep reading that in this thread. I thought he was pretty quick, like a lot quicker than Nowell at the very least, but maybe that’s relative to my view of him as a fly-half or Alex Goode 2.0.
As regards Malins' pace, I suspect it's a case of perception in that he does lots of team-orientated stuff that means we don't see out-and-out gas as a main attribute of what he offers. Mind you, I so often hear that Nowell does not have pure pace, usually as he's going over the try line. What counts with both is the whole package. Always, according to Shankly, if you have a selection choice, pick the one that the opposition would dislike most. I suspect that Nowell and Malins would not be fun to play against so both being there for the Italy game works.
Having said that, are Italy just a soft touch to experiment against? If we'd thumped Scotland, perhaps. On the back of losing, though, I'd prefer total application to building the side for the future, starting with Wales 13 days later.
Will that front 5, the back row (apart from Curry) or Randall start then? If not, in the context of building from where we are at, I wonder if priorities are right.