Stade de France Saturday 19th March

[FKAS]

It's hard to see an England win in Paris - but you never know. If the pack plays as they did yesterday, they will be in with a chance. A few key contributing factors could be -

- England will not have another free ride at scrum time against the French front row
- France probably has the best all-round back row unit in the 6n with Aldritt/Cros/Jelonch
- the French defence under Edwards is tremendous
- the England three quarters lack invention and pace and find it difficult to engineer a try
- the French FB is usually a reliable goal kicker (but then so is Smith)
- England rely too much on Itoje - it's understandable since he's brilliant (even if half mad at times). Hope he's got plenty of engine left for next week after yesterday's stint
- England have no Dupont

The French are certainly favourites and have home advantage, but I doubt it will be a rout.

Entire English backline lack invention currently.

[Puja]

It's hard to see an England win in Paris - but you never know. If the pack plays as they did yesterday, they will be in with a chance. A few key contributing factors could be -

- England will not have another free ride at scrum time against the French front row
- France probably has the best all-round back row unit in the 6n with Aldritt/Cros/Jelonch
- the French defence under Edwards is tremendous
- the England three quarters lack invention and pace and find it difficult to engineer a try
- the French FB is usually a reliable goal kicker (but then so is Smith)
- England rely too much on Itoje - it's understandable since he's brilliant (even if half mad at times). Hope he's got plenty of engine left for next week after yesterday's stint
- England have no Dupont

The French are certainly favourites and have home advantage, but I doubt it will be a rout.

Entire English backline lack invention currently.

There's no ceiling to what having an unstructured attack can bring you, but also, as many Coarse Rugby 3rd XVs will tell you, also no floor.

Puja

[Banquo]

It's hard to see an England win in Paris - but you never know. If the pack plays as they did yesterday, they will be in with a chance. A few key contributing factors could be -

- England will not have another free ride at scrum time against the French front row
- France probably has the best all-round back row unit in the 6n with Aldritt/Cros/Jelonch
- the French defence under Edwards is tremendous
- the England three quarters lack invention and pace and find it difficult to engineer a try
- the French FB is usually a reliable goal kicker (but then so is Smith)
- England rely too much on Itoje - it's understandable since he's brilliant (even if half mad at times). Hope he's got plenty of engine left for next week after yesterday's stint
- England have no Dupont

The French are certainly favourites and have home advantage, but I doubt it will be a rout.

Entire English backline lack invention currently.

Randall is inventive. Smith is inventive. Slade is inventive. Nowell is inventive. Malins is inventive. The issue is how to meld all that together against top defences when you aren’t able to disrupt them….at international level.

[Mellsblue]

It's hard to see an England win in Paris - but you never know. If the pack plays as they did yesterday, they will be in with a chance. A few key contributing factors could be -

- England will not have another free ride at scrum time against the French front row
- France probably has the best all-round back row unit in the 6n with Aldritt/Cros/Jelonch
- the French defence under Edwards is tremendous
- the England three quarters lack invention and pace and find it difficult to engineer a try
- the French FB is usually a reliable goal kicker (but then so is Smith)
- England rely too much on Itoje - it's understandable since he's brilliant (even if half mad at times). Hope he's got plenty of engine left for next week after yesterday's stint
- England have no Dupont

The French are certainly favourites and have home advantage, but I doubt it will be a rout.

Entire English backline lack invention currently.

There's no ceiling to what having an unstructured attack can bring you, but also, as many Coarse Rugby 3rd XVs will tell you, also no floor.

Puja

but plenty of flaws.

[francoisfou]

There's no ceiling to what having an unstructured attack can bring you, but also, as many Coarse Rugby 3rd XVs will tell you, also no floor.

Puja

But wasn’t it good turning out each Saturday afternoon for the Extra 3rd XV or the 4ths, come rain or shine!!! Edit: flaws ‘n’ all!!

[francoisfou]

According to Oddschecker, England have shortened to 11/4! Do they know something we don’t?

[p/d]

According to Oddschecker, England have shortened to 11/4! Do they know something we don’t?

Well yes, Ewels banned

[Banquo]

According to Oddschecker, England have shortened to 11/4! Do they know something we don’t?

Well yes, Ewels banned

Probs more Lawes big toe

[Oakboy]

According to Oddschecker, England have shortened to 11/4! Do they know something we don’t?

Jones sacked?

[Puja]

There's no ceiling to what having an unstructured attack can bring you, but also, as many Coarse Rugby 3rd XVs will tell you, also no floor.

Puja

But wasn’t it good turning out each Saturday afternoon for the Extra 3rd XV or the 4ths, come rain or shine!!! Edit: flaws ‘n’ all!!

I still do. Last week we won 102-7. This week we lost 62-7.

Puja

[Banquo]

There's no ceiling to what having an unstructured attack can bring you, but also, as many Coarse Rugby 3rd XVs will tell you, also no floor.

Puja

But wasn’t it good turning out each Saturday afternoon for the Extra 3rd XV or the 4ths, come rain or shine!!! Edit: flaws ‘n’ all!!

I still do. Last week we won 102-7. This week we lost 62-7.

Puja

Brilliant!!

[francoisfou]

There's no ceiling to what having an unstructured attack can bring you, but also, as many Coarse Rugby 3rd XVs will tell you, also no floor.

Puja

But wasn’t it good turning out each Saturday afternoon for the Extra 3rd XV or the 4ths, come rain or shine!!! Edit: flaws ‘n’ all!!

I still do. Last week we won 102-7. This week we lost 62-7.

Puja

Bravo, Puja! My last game was a 4th team win against local rivals in 1986!!

[Gloskarlos]

Anyone know a decent bar in Bordeaux we can watch this from? My vets side are going on a weekend tour.

[32nd Man]

According to Oddschecker, England have shortened to 11/4! Do they know something we don’t?

Surely the 25/1 was a new account offer? You aren't offering odds like that when one moment of carelessness can have you a man short fir a chunk of the game.

[Spiffy]

It's hard to see an England win in Paris - but you never know. If the pack plays as they did yesterday, they will be in with a chance. A few key contributing factors could be -

- England will not have another free ride at scrum time against the French front row
- France probably has the best all-round back row unit in the 6n with Aldritt/Cros/Jelonch
- the French defence under Edwards is tremendous
- the England three quarters lack invention and pace and find it difficult to engineer a try
- the French FB is usually a reliable goal kicker (but then so is Smith)
- England rely too much on Itoje - it's understandable since he's brilliant (even if half mad at times). Hope he's got plenty of engine left for next week after yesterday's stint
- England have no Dupont

The French are certainly favourites and have home advantage, but I doubt it will be a rout.

Entire English backline lack invention currently.

Randall is inventive. Smith is inventive. Slade is inventive. Nowell is inventive. Malins is inventive. The issue is how to meld all that together against top defences when you aren’t able to disrupt them….at international level.

You seem to be saying that they are inventive, but only as far as they are allowed to be by the opposition. Hard to argue with the logic of that form of circular argument which could be applied to many players at all levels. By inventive I mean players who are smart enough to get the better of good defences and at least threaten to score tries, so if they cannot do that, then I'd see them as not inventive.
(Is Nowell really inventive? I've heard him described in many ways but never that )

[Banquo]

Entire English backline lack invention currently.

Randall is inventive. Smith is inventive. Slade is inventive. Nowell is inventive. Malins is inventive. The issue is how to meld all that together against top defences when you aren’t able to disrupt them….at international level.

You seem to be saying that they are inventive, but only as far as they are allowed to be by the opposition. Hard to argue with the logic of that form of circular argument which could be applied to many players at all levels. By inventive I mean players who are smart enough to get the better of good defences and at least threaten to score tries, so if they cannot do that, then I'd see them as not inventive.
(Is Nowell really inventive? I've heard him described in many ways but never that )

That’s not at all what I am saying. Try again.

[francoisfou]

According to Oddschecker, England have shortened to 11/4! Do they know something we don’t?

Surely the 25/1 was a new account offer? You aren't offering odds like that when one moment of carelessness can have you a man short fir a chunk of the game.

Looking again, 25/1 is for the draw (I’ve just put the cork back in the bottle!)

[FKAS]

Randall is inventive. Smith is inventive. Slade is inventive. Nowell is inventive. Malins is inventive. The issue is how to meld all that together against top defences when you aren’t able to disrupt them….at international level.

You seem to be saying that they are inventive, but only as far as they are allowed to be by the opposition. Hard to argue with the logic of that form of circular argument which could be applied to many players at all levels. By inventive I mean players who are smart enough to get the better of good defences and at least threaten to score tries, so if they cannot do that, then I'd see them as not inventive.
(Is Nowell really inventive? I've heard him described in many ways but never that )

That’s not at all what I am saying. Try again.

I grouped them as a collective on the basis that the backline is not showing creativity as a unit. Various players have been tried this 6N and it isn't happening the backline are not posing the threat we'd hoped.

[Banquo]

You seem to be saying that they are inventive, but only as far as they are allowed to be by the opposition. Hard to argue with the logic of that form of circular argument which could be applied to many players at all levels. By inventive I mean players who are smart enough to get the better of good defences and at least threaten to score tries, so if they cannot do that, then I'd see them as not inventive.
(Is Nowell really inventive? I've heard him described in many ways but never that )

That’s not at all what I am saying. Try again.

I grouped them as a collective on the basis that the backline is not showing creativity as a unit. Various players have been tried this 6N and it isn't happening the backline are not posing the threat we'd hoped.

The clue is partially in your answer.....'various players have been tried'. The point I was making was although we don't have any/many very good backs currently available, there is plenty of creative/inventiveness in the individuals who have actually played (if not top end pace, and no power other than maybe Steward).....and that mix needs to be quite sophisticated in set up to fool international defences and a- they have been mixed up quite a bit as you point out and they really need to settle, especially in the way Smith likes to play (and tbh, he does need a big 12 alongside him at this point in time) , b- they really aren't getting much help from their forwards in terms of ruck speeds and/or forwards making good yards beyond the tackle line, c- I don't even know if Gleeson knows how to set this sort of backs mix up; we showed signs of what could be done v Italy-- they aren't a top defence though- creating a lot of space on the outside through Smith wrapping round Slade who was first receiver a lot...but have subsequently not done this.

That said, I'm not about to have a pop about not creating/inventing much v Ireland, playing with 6 and half backs.

And to Spiffy- I'd say Nowell is pretty inventive, he goes looking for work like no other winger, has the ability to create something out of nothing with his jinks and steps etc; its just not that effective at international level as he's a yard short of pace.

All in all- this is not a scary set of backs, but I think there is enough skill and invention in the individuals to do a lot better...BUT they likely need more of a platform to perform off, and to work together more on both set moves and some options off phase play. The 3/4's are all a tad samey, so how do you look at the detail of their strengths to get the best from them, given that there isn't a long list of credible alternatives with a point of difference. I would drop Malins though- he's looked out of his depth to me,

[francoisfou]

Barring training injuries, general mishaps, covid, scrumpox and any other undesirable infections, the French team to confront England will probably be:

Starting XV: Jaminet; Villière, Danty, Fickou, Penaud; Ntamack, Dupont; Alldritt, Cros, Jelonch, Woki, Willemse, Baille, Marchand, Atonio.

Les finisseurs: Mauvaka, Gros, Haouas, Taofifenua, Flament, Cretin, Lucu, Ramos. (the bench was 5:3 in Cardiff, but Galthié will surely revert to 6:2 next Saturday).

While there are no obvious weaknesses in their playing ability, mentally they will be vulnerable, as they usually are before playing England. Their fickle supporters will be expecting a Grand Slam but if England can force some mistakes and get the French crowd to start whistling and jeering, a surprise could be on the cards.
This match is tailor-made for a Brian Moore type of player, one who gets under the oppo's skin and persistently niggles. Genge is capable of doing this but he's equally capable of seeing the red mist, which wouldn't be very productive.
This has the makings of a fascinating match and could be as tight as a "cul de canard"!!

[Mikey Brown]

Hopefully France playing their props the wrong way round (and their entire 3/4 line) will give England a bit of an edge.

Where is Vakatawa anyway? Just not in favour?

[francoisfou]

Hopefully France playing their props the wrong way round (and their entire 3/4 line) will give England a bit of an edge.

Where is Vakatawa anyway? Just not in favour?

Vakatawa's been playing for Racing. Well, I don't know, but maybe he's said something that upset Galthié?

[Peej]

Has he fallen foul of the Shaun Edwards defensive system? With Fickou moved to 13, and a big bruiser like Danty or Moefana preferred at 12, seems like he doesn't quite fit.

[francoisfou]

Has he fallen foul of the Shaun Edwards defensive system? With Fickou moved to 13, and a big bruiser like Danty or Moefana preferred at 12, seems like he doesn't quite fit.

Could well be the case!

[fivepointer]

Jack's back!
Squad update -

Forwards

Alfie Barbeary
Jamie Blamire
Ollie Chessum
Nic Dolly
Alex Dombrandt
Ellis Genge
Jamie George
Joe Heyes
Maro Itoje
Nick Isiekwe
Joe Launchbury
Courtney Lawes
Joe Marler
Sam Simmonds
Kyle Sinckler
Will Stuart
Sam Underhill
Jack Willis

Backs

Orlando Bailey
Elliot Daly
George Ford
George Furbank
Ollie Hassell-Collins
Louis Lynagh
Max Malins
Joe Marchant
Alex Mitchell
Luke Northmore
Jack Nowell
Harry Randall
Henry Slade
Marcus Smith
Freddie Steward
Ben Youngs