RugbyRebels

Spiffy wrote:

jngf wrote:From reading another post I understand that Underhill is an especially powerful tackler for an openside,
much in the style of Peter Winterbottom.

Surely any 7 aiming to make a mark at the top level of he game has to be a powerful tackler. It's part of the job description.

I'm all for mocking everything Jngf says (winky face or whatever) but that doesn't mean you can't be an especially powerful tackler. You don't have to hit like Jerry Collins to be a top flanker, but it's a selling point.

I've not seen a second of Underhill and still find all this a bit ridiculous to be honest.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

jngf wrote:From reading another post I understand that Underhill is an especially powerful tackler for an openside,
much in the style of Peter Winterbottom.

Surely any 7 aiming to make a mark at the top level of he game has to be a powerful tackler. It's part of the job description.

I'm all for mocking everything Jngf says (winky face or whatever) but that doesn't mean you can't be an especially powerful tackler. You don't have to hit like Jerry Collins to be a top flanker, but it's a selling point.

I've not seen a second of Underhill and still find all this a bit ridiculous to be honest.

Shouldn't you watch him first before deciding if the hype is ridiculous?

Mellsblue wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:

Spiffy wrote:
Surely any 7 aiming to make a mark at the top level of he game has to be a powerful tackler. It's part of the job description.

I'm all for mocking everything Jngf says (winky face or whatever) but that doesn't mean you can't be an especially powerful tackler. You don't have to hit like Jerry Collins to be a top flanker, but it's a selling point.

I've not seen a second of Underhill and still find all this a bit ridiculous to be honest.

Shouldn't you watch him first before deciding if the hype is ridiculous?

Don't be silly. Knowledge isn't required to form an opinion - heck, I'd say it even hinders the process!

Puja

Mellsblue wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:

Spiffy wrote:
Surely any 7 aiming to make a mark at the top level of he game has to be a powerful tackler. It's part of the job description.

I'm all for mocking everything Jngf says (winky face or whatever) but that doesn't mean you can't be an especially powerful tackler. You don't have to hit like Jerry Collins to be a top flanker, but it's a selling point.

I've not seen a second of Underhill and still find all this a bit ridiculous to be honest.

Shouldn't you watch him first before deciding if the hype is ridiculous?

Err... Yes? There seem to be a lot of folk banging on about this guy called Underhill, that they haven't seen, who is apparently brilliant and going to save the day. That's what I was talking about.

I haven't seen him - I have no opinion on him.

Is he actually first choice at the Ospreys?

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:
I'm all for mocking everything Jngf says (winky face or whatever) but that doesn't mean you can't be an especially powerful tackler. You don't have to hit like Jerry Collins to be a top flanker, but it's a selling point.

I've not seen a second of Underhill and still find all this a bit ridiculous to be honest.

Shouldn't you watch him first before deciding if the hype is ridiculous?

Don't be silly. Knowledge isn't required to form an opinion - heck, I'd say it even hinders the process!

Puja

Good point, well made.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:
I'm all for mocking everything Jngf says (winky face or whatever) but that doesn't mean you can't be an especially powerful tackler. You don't have to hit like Jerry Collins to be a top flanker, but it's a selling point.

I've not seen a second of Underhill and still find all this a bit ridiculous to be honest.

Shouldn't you watch him first before deciding if the hype is ridiculous?

Err... Yes? There seem to be a lot of folk banging on about this guy called Underhill, that they haven't seen, who is apparently brilliant and going to save the day. That's what I was talking about.

I haven't seen him - I have no opinion on him.

Is he actually first choice at the Ospreys?

Ah, I see. I think most of this thread is based on 'how has he ended up in Wales', 'he's obviously highly rated, how do we stop him being poached by the Welsh' and 'everyone in the know, including the Eng coach, seems to rate him very highly I wonder why'. I haven't seen much of 'I think he's amazing let's drop him straight in the 1stXV'.

Yes, first choice for Ospreys, as far as I know - I haven't seen him play.

I don't want to spoil your fun but that was straight out of the Hwntw school of paraphrasing things that nobody actually said.

I have no problem with looking at him at all, it's just for all the talk about him I feel like I've only read a couple of actual first-hand opinions. I was really only responding to what Jngf said.

Mikey Brown wrote:I don't want to spoil your fun but that was straight out of the Hwntw school of paraphrasing things that nobody actually said.

I have no problem with looking at him at all, it's just for all the talk about him I feel like I've only read a couple of actual first-hand opinions. I was really only responding to what Jngf said.

Well there has definitely been conversation about how he ended up in Wales and there was definitely a convo about the how's and whys of potential Wales eligibility and there's definitely been a discussion about how highly others rate him but hey ho.

Eddie Jones rates him, Sam Warburton rates him, the Ospreys rate him, Glos academy rated him but wouldn't accommodate his studying and all the coaches at Eng age grades rated him. That you haven't read any of this or actually watched him shouldn't preclude others from talking about him. That's before we get to the first rule of Rugby Rebels.......

I think he's more first choice than Clifford is at any rate, who, in their biggest game of the season has been dropped for either Wallace or Easter, depending on what position you think he should be in.

TheNomad wrote:I think he's more first choice than Clifford is at any rate, who, in their biggest game of the season has been dropped for either Wallace or Easter, depending on what position you think he should be in.

yep, not much of a vote of confidence. He is already falling into utility back row category.

Banquo wrote:

TheNomad wrote:I think he's more first choice than Clifford is at any rate, who, in their biggest game of the season has been dropped for either Wallace or Easter, depending on what position you think he should be in.

yep, not much of a vote of confidence. He is already falling into utility back row category.

Easter's last match for Quins....... Even if it's pure selection then being behind the club's player of the year and a highly experienced ex-international is not a huge slight. You've also got to think about the oppo - big pack and tight rugby - and who better neuteres them - and impact off the bench. 15mins left and you need a try against tired legs who do want to bring on, Easter or Clifford.

Given that Ospreys have Tipuric and Lydiate, I'm fairly sure he's not first choice.

I've only watched him once - last week against Ulster. I wasn't keeping an eye out for him and I was watching the BBC NI commentary, so they weren't inclined to mention him, but he did make an impact on me. He's certainly got power, and power is usually the one thing we can't find in a 7. I'm not sure he's ready yet, but I feel like there's a very short list of 19 year old English forwards who I have seen perform so well in that sort of company and virtually all of them have gone on to be big successes.

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:

TheNomad wrote:I think he's more first choice than Clifford is at any rate, who, in their biggest game of the season has been dropped for either Wallace or Easter, depending on what position you think he should be in.

yep, not much of a vote of confidence. He is already falling into utility back row category.

Easter's last match for Quins....... Even if it's pure selection then being behind the club's player of the year and a highly experienced ex-international is not a huge slight. You've also got to think about the oppo - big pack and tight rugby - and who better neuteres them - and impact off the bench. 15mins left and you need a try against tired legs who do want to bring on, Easter or Clifford.

That's pretty much my thinking on it, or (as a Clifford fan) how I'd like to spin it at least. Wallace was bang in form before and Easter has a whole lot of experience and incentive, particularly after last week.

I have the same fears for Clifford though, he needs to specialise some time soon.

On Underhill, I wasn't trying to be a contrarion but the list of things I've heard he can do is pretty incredible. If half of it is true he'll be some player, granted. It's mainly Jngf that I find so entertaining.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote: yep, not much of a vote of confidence. He is already falling into utility back row category.

Easter's last match for Quins....... Even if it's pure selection then being behind the club's player of the year and a highly experienced ex-international is not a huge slight. You've also got to think about the oppo - big pack and tight rugby - and who better neuteres them - and impact off the bench. 15mins left and you need a try against tired legs who do want to bring on, Easter or Clifford.

That's pretty much my thinking on it, or (as a Clifford fan) how I'd like to spin it at least. Wallace was bang in form before and Easter has a whole lot of experience and incentive, particularly after last week.

I have the same fears for Clifford though, he needs to specialise some time soon.

On Underhill, I wasn't trying to be a contrarion but the list of things I've heard he can do is pretty incredible. If half of it is true he'll be some player, granted. It's mainly Jngf that I find so entertaining.

We can all agree on Jngf.

I've heard Underhill can fly and that he is a clone of both Tony Underwood and Richard Hill.

Peat wrote:Given that Ospreys have Tipuric and Lydiate, I'm fairly sure he's not first choice.

I've only watched him once - last week against Ulster. I wasn't keeping an eye out for him and I was watching the BBC NI commentary, so they weren't inclined to mention him, but he did make an impact on me. He's certainly got power, and power is usually the one thing we can't find in a 7. I'm not sure he's ready yet, but I feel like there's a very short list of 19 year old English forwards who I have seen perform so well in that sort of company and virtually all of them have gone on to be big successes.

Quins have Robshaw, Clifford, Easter and Wallace. 4 players for 3 positions and I'd call them all first choice. Club rugby is such a squad game these days that I'd argue that you can have more than one person per position as first choice. It might not be the literal meaning of the word 'first' but even literally doesn't mean literally anymore.

Mellsblue wrote:

Peat wrote:Given that Ospreys have Tipuric and Lydiate, I'm fairly sure he's not first choice.

I've only watched him once - last week against Ulster. I wasn't keeping an eye out for him and I was watching the BBC NI commentary, so they weren't inclined to mention him, but he did make an impact on me. He's certainly got power, and power is usually the one thing we can't find in a 7. I'm not sure he's ready yet, but I feel like there's a very short list of 19 year old English forwards who I have seen perform so well in that sort of company and virtually all of them have gone on to be big successes.

Quins have Robshaw, Clifford, Easter and Wallace. 4 players for 3 positions and I'd call them all first choice. Club rugby is such a squad game these days that I'd argue that you can have more than one person per position as first choice. It might not be the literal meaning of the word 'first' but even literally doesn't mean literally anymore.

I'm placing you under arrest for abuse of the English language.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Peat wrote:Given that Ospreys have Tipuric and Lydiate, I'm fairly sure he's not first choice.

I've only watched him once - last week against Ulster. I wasn't keeping an eye out for him and I was watching the BBC NI commentary, so they weren't inclined to mention him, but he did make an impact on me. He's certainly got power, and power is usually the one thing we can't find in a 7. I'm not sure he's ready yet, but I feel like there's a very short list of 19 year old English forwards who I have seen perform so well in that sort of company and virtually all of them have gone on to be big successes.

Quins have Robshaw, Clifford, Easter and Wallace. 4 players for 3 positions and I'd call them all first choice. Club rugby is such a squad game these days that I'd argue that you can have more than one person per position as first choice. It might not be the literal meaning of the word 'first' but even literally doesn't mean literally anymore.

I'm placing you under arrest for abuse of the English language.

Puja

I'm literally soiling myself.

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:

TheNomad wrote:I think he's more first choice than Clifford is at any rate, who, in their biggest game of the season has been dropped for either Wallace or Easter, depending on what position you think he should be in.

yep, not much of a vote of confidence. He is already falling into utility back row category.

Easter's last match for Quins....... Even if it's pure selection then being behind the club's player of the year and a highly experienced ex-international is not a huge slight. You've also got to think about the oppo - big pack and tight rugby - and who better neuteres them - and impact off the bench. 15mins left and you need a try against tired legs who do want to bring on, Easter or Clifford.

..Wallace is starting, too. Which just highlights my point- is he an 8? a 7? a 6? Its useful to be adaptable....but..

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote: yep, not much of a vote of confidence. He is already falling into utility back row category.

Easter's last match for Quins....... Even if it's pure selection then being behind the club's player of the year and a highly experienced ex-international is not a huge slight. You've also got to think about the oppo - big pack and tight rugby - and who better neuteres them - and impact off the bench. 15mins left and you need a try against tired legs who do want to bring on, Easter or Clifford.

..Wallace is starting, too. Which just highlights my point- is he an 8? a 7? a 6? Its useful to be adaptable....but..

Wallace is the club's player of the year. Both players' and fans', I think.

I agree he needs to nail a position. I'd imagine it'll be 8 with Easter retiring this evening and that being where he played at age grade.

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:
Easter's last match for Quins....... Even if it's pure selection then being behind the club's player of the year and a highly experienced ex-international is not a huge slight. You've also got to think about the oppo - big pack and tight rugby - and who better neuteres them - and impact off the bench. 15mins left and you need a try against tired legs who do want to bring on, Easter or Clifford.

..Wallace is starting, too. Which just highlights my point- is he an 8? a 7? a 6? Its useful to be adaptable....but..

Wallace is the club's player of the year. Both players' and fans', I think.

I agree he needs to nail a position. I'd imagine it'll be 8 with Easter retiring this evening and that being where he played at age grade.

finally.

(and to your argument in the stats thread, player of the year is likely a function of not being an international and disappearing for large chunks ).

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote: ..Wallace is starting, too. Which just highlights my point- is he an 8? a 7? a 6? Its useful to be adaptable....but..

Wallace is the club's player of the year. Both players' and fans', I think.

I agree he needs to nail a position. I'd imagine it'll be 8 with Easter retiring this evening and that being where he played at age grade.

finally.

Wasn't really quibbling about that. More the assertion that his place on the bench was anything to be troubled with regards a 'vote of confidence'.

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote: ..Wallace is starting, too. Which just highlights my point- is he an 8? a 7? a 6? Its useful to be adaptable....but..

Wallace is the club's player of the year. Both players' and fans', I think.

I agree he needs to nail a position. I'd imagine it'll be 8 with Easter retiring this evening and that being where he played at age grade.

finally.

(and to your argument in the stats thread, player of the year is likely a function of not being an international and disappearing for large chunks ).

The arch-editor strikes again.

Begrudgingly, I agree.

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:
Wallace is the club's player of the year. Both players' and fans', I think.

I agree he needs to nail a position. I'd imagine it'll be 8 with Easter retiring this evening and that being where he played at age grade.

finally.

Wasn't really quibbling about that. More the assertion that his place on the bench was anything to be troubled with regards a 'vote of confidence'.

Tells me he is fourth of four as a starter .

Plus you need to learn patience when replying

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote: finally.

Wasn't really quibbling about that. More the assertion that his place on the bench was anything to be troubled with regards a 'vote of confidence'.

Plus you need to learn patience when replying

Apologies.

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: Wasn't really quibbling about that. More the assertion that his place on the bench was anything to be troubled with regards a 'vote of confidence'.

Plus you need to learn patience when replying

Apologies.

larf, I never started