Scotland Autumn Series thread

[Mikey Brown]

I don't see it with Horne at international level either. His game really hasn't matured a lot. Great for a certain style of play but Scotland under GT and ABZ have moved away from that.

Is he starting ahead of Price for Glasgow for any clear reason?

[BaldiePete]

Actually, if Horne plays against Australia he could kick. He’s been kicking for Glasgow this season hasn’t he? Horne and Kinghorn playing together could be fun (or equally it could be an embarrassing disaster).

[Big D]

I don't see it with Horne at international level either. His game really hasn't matured a lot. Great for a certain style of play but Scotland under GT and ABZ have moved away from that.

Is he starting ahead of Price for Glasgow for any clear reason?

No idea, but Horne isn't a kid anymore, he's 27 with 15 caps. He needs performances at the international level because it is no longer about his potential.

[Big D]

I've seen Palmer has went for Townsend. Not surprising as he is well in with Finn but I do think the tide is turning with Townsend and the press after the 6N.

No one can credibly say Thompson over Finn is a form decision.

[Cameo]

I don't see it with Horne at international level either. His game really hasn't matured a lot. Great for a certain style of play but Scotland under GT and ABZ have moved away from that.

Is he starting ahead of Price for Glasgow for any clear reason?

No idea, but Horne isn't a kid anymore, he's 27 with 15 caps. He needs performances at the international level because it is no longer about his potential.

Price started the last game. I suspect they just wanted to ease him into the season. Price is clearly our number one 9 at the moment.

The whole Russell thing makes me a bit sad, but can't be bothered to express a firm opinion on it at the moment. Not sure we have all the background - could be form, could be attitude, could just be a lot more consensual. Not sure the comparison with Thompson is fair though - there is no way you bring in Finn as a third choice.

I am not keen on the Dempsey thing. Not that he doesn't deserve his spot or that we should unilaterally decide not to pick him. Just the rule change stinks and this is one example of why.

[Mikey Brown]

Is he starting ahead of Price for Glasgow for any clear reason?

No idea, but Horne isn't a kid anymore, he's 27 with 15 caps. He needs performances at the international level because it is no longer about his potential.

Price started the last game. I suspect they just wanted to ease him into the season. Price is clearly our number one 9 at the moment.

The whole Russell thing makes me a bit sad, but can't be bothered to express a firm opinion on it at the moment. Not sure we have all the background - could be form, could be attitude, could just be a lot more consensual. Not sure the comparison with Thompson is fair though - there is no way you bring in Finn as a third choice.

I am not keen on the Dempsey thing. Not that he doesn't deserve his spot or that we should unilaterally decide not to pick him. Just the rule change stinks and this is one example of why.

Yeah, I haven't really got the energy to care about the Russell situation as much as the rest of the internet does, especially as we don't seem to have a very clear reason. The mixed messages are a bit weird though, and this sort of stuff seems to be a real feature of Townsend's tenure.

I wonder if having the kid on the way is just 1 factor in Townsend doubting his commitment/attitude. I've got to say even prior to this I wouldn't have been shocked if he doesn't end up being in the RWC squad for any number of reasons. It feels like he's simultaneously our best 10, yet still a case of unfulfilled potential.

Anyway he's not in the squad and that's that. I just hope we take a proper look at Hastings.

Obviously we're missing players based outside of Scotland for the first game, but over the course of the Autumn I'd love to see 10. Hastings 12. Redpath 13. Bennet get a run. I could accept Harris at 13 alongside those two as they offer more of a running threat, but Bennet really deserves to keep hold of the shirt for now.

I don't see any reasonable way of limiting the dual nationality rule (which I like for Tonga, Samoa etc.) to certain nations. Let's hope Dempsey can offer more consistent competition for the 8 shirt than the last dozen foreign imports we've tried there.

[Donny osmond]

I say this having no idea of Dempsey,but we do need a big hard bastard at 8. Lot of respect for Ferguson and how he's developed, I can't help but feel he's just short of the power and impact needed to really fully support Watson and Ritchie

[Cameo]

"
I don't see any reasonable way of limiting the dual nationality rule (which I like for Tonga, Samoa etc.) to certain nations. Let's hope Dempsey can offer more consistent competition for the 8 shirt than the last dozen foreign imports we've tried there.
"

Probs not the place to get properly into this, but the thing is I don't even like it for them.

1. It really is basically just those two. Fiji may get the odd winger back but they have plenty. There are not too many other Fijians playing for other countries.

2. The players it helps weren't being robbed of the opportunity to play for Tonga and Samoa as portrayed. Most of them are kiwis with strong heritage links who decided to play for NZ first (and fair enough). They have legitimate ties to the Islands and I can see why they want to revert to them, but that doesn't mean there was anything wrong with the principle that the eligibility rules should be quite flexible but once you've picked you've picked.

3. Will it even help Samoa and Tonga in the long run. To me it encourages young players to view them as a backup option. If you were a young dual qualified Tongan, you now have all the incentive to chase the All Blacks dream as even if you only get a cap or two, you can later revert to Tonga.

[Mikey Brown]

I'd really not considered that last point. Fair enough.

[Puja]

3. Will it even help Samoa and Tonga in the long run. To me it encourages young players to view them as a backup option. If you were a young dual qualified Tongan, you now have all the incentive to chase the All Blacks dream as even if you only get a cap or two, you can later revert to Tonga.

Don't they do that anyway though? Dual qualified Tongans were almost always going to chase the All Blacks dream, as it's an order of magnitude greater money, both directly and in terms of what they can get if they go to France as a capped NZ international. Thinking that he was limited to one nation for all his career didn't stop Laumape from chasing the AB dream over Tonga and I don't see why having a future choice will change that.

There's an argument it could make a difference with countries of closer levels and financial rewards - so a player might look to chase an England cap with the knowledge that they could fall back on a Scots or Welsh grandparent if the first career doesn't take (or vice versa, depending on the position they play - got any 12s?!), but the difference between NZ wages and Tongan wages are so high that anyone who can get the former will do so as their first port of call.

I'd say the only way to help Tonga and Samoa in the long run are the teams in Super Rugby, but I think this short-term boost could be a massive fillip.

Puja

[Cameo]

3. Will it even help Samoa and Tonga in the long run. To me it encourages young players to view them as a backup option. If you were a young dual qualified Tongan, you now have all the incentive to chase the All Blacks dream as even if you only get a cap or two, you can later revert to Tonga.

Don't they do that anyway though? Dual qualified Tongans were almost always going to chase the All Blacks dream, as it's an order of magnitude greater money, both directly and in terms of what they can get if they go to France as a capped NZ international. Thinking that he was limited to one nation for all his career didn't stop Laumape from chasing the AB dream over Tonga and I don't see why having a future choice will change that.

There's an argument it could make a difference with countries of closer levels and financial rewards - so a player might look to chase an England cap with the knowledge that they could fall back on a Scots or Welsh grandparent if the first career doesn't take (or vice versa, depending on the position they play - got any 12s?!), but the difference between NZ wages and Tongan wages are so high that anyone who can get the former will do so as their first port of call.

I'd say the only way to help Tonga and Samoa in the long run are the teams in Super Rugby, but I think this short-term boost could be a massive fillip.

Puja

I do get your point (though I reckon the fact he is from Palmerston North played a part in Laumape aiming for the ABs, he was never going to earn Tongan wages).

I think my underlying issue is that I have always been for liberal qualification rules as quirks of where people were born etc. shouldn't prevent people from playing for who they always wanted to. My issue has always been that it undermines international sport when people are clearly playing for their second or third choice. This rule institutionalised this and, with it, the heirarchy of international teams.

I know the finances do that anyway to an extent, but that is a much bigger problem to solve.

I agree on Super Rugby teams. I'm hoping they really kick on this year (though Moana Pacifica's best player this year is in the AB's development team - not problematic in itself, he is a kiwi, but it does highlight an issue when basically everyone is dual qualified)

[Donny osmond]

Just to continue detailing the thread, I really like the new rules. There's a certain politics in getting selected and, given that we love in a global village where everyone is cousins, I say fuck it, let's just let someone play for anyone.

I am quite drunk tho

[Mikey Brown]

Are you having a good time?

[switchskier]

Decent effort from Hastings. Assume that he makes the 23 given Thompson's lack of game time.

[septic 9]

Decent effort from Hastings. Assume that he makes the 23 given Thompson's lack of game time.

won't be available this week

[Mikey Brown]

To be honest the dropgoal looked pretty lucky to me, given the way he struck it. Played well though in general.

I’d hope he’d be in the starting side due to clearly being the most competent flyhalf, regardless of Thomson’s game time, but that’s probably not the case.

[switchskier]

Decent effort from Hastings. Assume that he makes the 23 given Thompson's lack of game time.

won't be available this week

Damnit forgot about that. Big ask for the young man then. Having watched it back agree that Hastings played pretty well. He seems to be settling in a year on.

[Donny osmond]

Are you having a good time?

I was, yes, thanks. You?

[BaldiePete]

Australia team is out. Hooper is back, which is good for rugby but bad for Scotland.

[BaldiePete]

And now the Scotland team. I’m surprised that Cherry is starting and that Cummings isn’t even in the 23. Otherwise, pretty much as expected.

Edit
Cummings has a broken toe and is out for all four matches

[Big D]

So Russell and Hogg punished for piss up, but 50 cap international and leadership group member Price not sanctioned really. Very inconsistent.

[Adder]

So Russell and Hogg punished for piss up, but 50 cap international and leadership group member Price not sanctioned really. Very inconsistent.

Hogg probably can't be capped because this game its outside of the International window.

[Cameo]

So Russell and Hogg punished for piss up, but 50 cap international and leadership group member Price not sanctioned really. Very inconsistent.

I'm not sure they are still being punished for that (Russell maybe but that's more of a long running thing).

Like the team generally. Excited for Ollie Smith. Bench looks a bit weak but I'm not sure there is much we can do about that.

[switchskier]

Not surprised to see Tuipulotu given the center options selected in the squad but I am a bit disappointed. Has always looked like a flat track bully to me, and pretty concerned he'll be exposed. Has he been ripping up trees for Glasgow this season?

Also surprised that Hoyland (who I like but I don't see getting 50 caps) is ahead of McLean, unless there's an injury I'm not aware of?

Think were due a hammering from Australia. Not optimistic about this one at all.

[Mikey Brown]

Reasonable enough side given the restrictions I guess.

Feel the same as everyone else on Tuipulotu. I guess Cherry makes sense with the Edinburgh locks. I like McClean but Hoyland is a more rounded player at this point and didn’t he score 3 tries last time he played?

Shame for Cummings.

Also Donny I wasn’t being facetious at all. Was a sincere question from someone who’s also found themselves drinking in the middle of the day.