RugbyRebels

Tigers battered them physically, especially at the breakdown. Montoya, Refell, Weise and Scott all excellent. Most of the England lads middling or poor tbh.

Highly disciplined and efficient performance from Tigers. That was a bit more like they played last season.

Quins were pretty dreadful. Their support of the ball was sloppy and they really struggled to work the ball into space.

Timbo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 5:00 pm Tigers battered them physically, especially at the breakdown. Montoya, Refell, Weise and Scott all excellent. Most of the England lads middling or poor tbh.

Cole and Heyes both had good games. The Quins scrum is pretty handy and they maybe just edged it. No Martin or Chessum was a shame as it's a game where they could have shone. Youngs and JVP were both fine, I know what you mean they got the job done without really shining. Steward was solid per one drop but Tigers backs didn't really get chance to let loose so he was limited in his influence. Watson isn't match sharp yet and it showed though the read for his interception try was nice.

Potter deserves a mention for doing a job out of position at 13 though. The Tigers locks that did so well at the lineout and around the park are also all EQ. Liebenburg might be qualifying for England soon as well.

Quins England guys were ok but Care and Smith failed to control the game and played in the wrong areas, also failing to make the most of the obvious advantage in the backs. Marler played well and the twin opensides stop Tigers from scoring at least one more. Northmore and Marchant were solid but somewhat starved if service.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 5:01 pm Highly disciplined and efficient performance from Tigers. That was a bit more like they played last season.

Quins were pretty dreadful. Their support of the ball was sloppy and they really struggled to work the ball into space.

Yep. Care and Smith weren’t brilliant, but I can only recall a handful of occasions where we managed to string more than 3 phases together. Our ball retention was horrific. Almost every time we went in to contact it felt like Tigers were going to win a turnover or at least slow us down to the point that we were up against a brick wall on the next phase. Very hard for the backs to shine in that scenario …

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:28 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:18 pm Tigers wobbling. Quins away isnt the ideal fixture but if they can get an edge up front it will make things interesting.

I'll be happy if we can grab a LBP.

....or. ...Tigers play to their strengths, double team Esterhuizen, and get a good game out of Scott. As said, a lot of quality across the side, and the coaching team had a good plan, and mostly hid the perceived issues.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:00 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:28 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:18 pm Tigers wobbling. Quins away isnt the ideal fixture but if they can get an edge up front it will make things interesting.

I'll be happy if we can grab a LBP.

....or. ...Tigers play to their strengths, double team Esterhuizen, and get a good game out of Scott. As said, a lot of quality across the side, and the coaching team had a good plan, and mostly hid the perceived issues.

It was a nice time for us to refind the defensive intensity of last season. I did say our best chance was to bully Quins up front. I didn't think we'd be able to go to their place and dominate them around the field like we did today.

Scott's return to form was very much welcomed and it was a return to form in real style.

Borthwick is a great coach and I said he'd turn it around, I just didn't think he'd accomplish it quite so quickly.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:14 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:00 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:28 pm

I'll be happy if we can grab a LBP.

....or. ...Tigers play to their strengths, double team Esterhuizen, and get a good game out of Scott. As said, a lot of quality across the side, and the coaching team had a good plan, and mostly hid the perceived issues.

It was a nice time for us to refind the defensive intensity of last season. I did say our best chance was to bully Quins up front. I didn't think we'd be able to go to their place and dominate them around the field like we did today.

Scott's return to form was very much welcomed and it was a return to form in real style.

Borthwick is a great coach and I said he'd turn it around, I just didn't think he'd accomplish it quite so quickly.

Its pretty much how you did for Saints after the first 20 mins, tho with added scrum softening then. Massive physicality up front- so I was surprised you couldnt see a win. Also stll a bit surprised at how poor Tigers wide defence has been notwithstanding the (known) disruption. Better today with Watsons reads, but still a bit insecure.
Be interesting to see if Borthwick can maintain this against sides that properly front up phyically. I'd say he's a very good coach, but how can he develop this team more- next test is maitaining this level and moving on imo

Well that was humbling. Had an oddly similar sort of feeling of futility to it as the RWC 19 final did, for me. One of the most frustrating recent Quins games I can remember. 'Destroyed at the breakdown and commentators won't shut up about Matt Scott being great' was not a combo I'd prepared myself for. Horrendous ball retention. Clumsy and inaccurate all over the field.

Hard to hold too much against the halfbacks with that pack performance. Esterhuizen clearly took a while to readjust.

Montoya was great to watch.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:28 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:14 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:00 pm

....or. ...Tigers play to their strengths, double team Esterhuizen, and get a good game out of Scott. As said, a lot of quality across the side, and the coaching team had a good plan, and mostly hid the perceived issues.

It was a nice time for us to refind the defensive intensity of last season. I did say our best chance was to bully Quins up front. I didn't think we'd be able to go to their place and dominate them around the field like we did today.

Scott's return to form was very much welcomed and it was a return to form in real style.

Borthwick is a great coach and I said he'd turn it around, I just didn't think he'd accomplish it quite so quickly.

Its pretty much how you did for Saints after the first 20 mins, tho with added scrum softening then. Massive physicality up front- so I was surprised you couldnt see a win. Also stll a bit surprised at how poor Tigers wide defence has been notwithstanding the (known) disruption. Better today with Watsons reads, but still a bit insecure.
Be interesting to see if Borthwick can maintain this against sides that properly front up phyically. I'd say he's a very good coach, but how can he develop this team more- next test is maitaining this level and moving on imo

Potter at 13 combined with Nadolo at wing certainly made for some comedy moments in wide defence today.

Puja

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:44 pm Well that was humbling. Had an oddly similar sort of feeling of futility to it as the RWC 19 final did, for me. One of the most frustrating recent Quins games I can remember. 'Destroyed at the breakdown and commentators won't shut up about Matt Scott being great' was not a combo I'd prepared myself for. Horrendous ball retention. Clumsy and inaccurate all over the field.

Hard to hold too much against the halfbacks with that pack performance. Esterhuizen clearly took a while to readjust.

Montoya was great to watch.

Won't argue with any of that, but we're really scraping the breakdown barrel atm without Chisolm, Dombrandt, Kenningham, Lawday, so it wasn't a surprise we struggled there. And elsewhere as a result... and in our last 3+ games.

Kenningham was playing - not that anyone would have particularly noticed … WEv was more noticeable for dropping a simple pass from Marchant that ended a promising opportunity. A very poor day at the office all round.

Yeah Kenningham had a few half-decent carries and Evans did get in at the breakdown himself a few times, but neither were very prominent. Without Dombrandt or anyone running attacking lines to actually split defenders, all they had to do was front up to our single, static carrier and then wait for a chance to pilfer the ball.

Chisholm or Lawday would have added a lot, but they’re not the same kind of threat that require 3 defenders to be on their toes to mark them.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:31 am Kenningham was playing - not that anyone would have particularly noticed … WEv was more noticeable for dropping a simple pass from Marchant that ended a promising opportunity. A very poor day at the office all round.

I though Kenningham was a bright spark. I thought Lamb and White were off the pace completely, and Wilco Louw might as well not have been playing. A pure set piece performance without a dominant set piece...

The pack lost that. Herbst looks like a highlight lock for me. Could really do with some quality there. Need to find some space in the cap.

Bringing in Launchbury could be a godsend for Quins. He's exactly the kind of consistent high level performer who would fit right in.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:25 am Bringing in Launchbury could be a godsend for Quins. He's exactly the kind of consistent high level performer who would fit right in.

Hell, I'd take Stooke.

Stooke would be great I think.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:37 am Stooke would be great I think.

Exactly. Just does the basics. It's not like we need a world class lock, we just need a good, solid one.

Stom wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:03 am

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:31 am Kenningham was playing - not that anyone would have particularly noticed … WEv was more noticeable for dropping a simple pass from Marchant that ended a promising opportunity. A very poor day at the office all round.

I though Kenningham was a bright spark. I thought Lamb and White were off the pace completely, and Wilco Louw might as well not have been playing. A pure set piece performance without a dominant set piece...

The pack lost that. Herbst looks like a highlight lock for me. Could really do with some quality there. Need to find some space in the cap.

Strange we can watch the same thing and come away with very different impressions.

Kenningham was OK, but given how thoroughly Tigers dominated the breakdown, I don’t think the back row did it’s job and he’s a part of that problem.

Agreed on Lamb and White, but surprised you singled out Louw when he was more or less our only carrier that got over the gainline.

Early impressions of Herbst are good. I like him.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:44 am Chisholm or Lawday would have added a lot, but they’re not the same kind of threat that require 3 defenders to be on their toes to mark them.

Tigers came with a tactic of chopping low knowing that Quins like to carry hard to gain initial momentum and then hit the clever runners with that momentum and Care playing quick. By chopping, even when behind the gain line there was always someone there to contest and the more physical Tigers pack just made it an effort to clear out every breakdown. Slowed the Quins attack for most the game.

Lawday or Chisholm would have added some additional muscle to the clear out most certainly. I did wonder if Quins would move a lock onto the flank to try and give them some more presence when clearing out the breakdown.

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 5:43 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:44 am Chisholm or Lawday would have added a lot, but they’re not the same kind of threat that require 3 defenders to be on their toes to mark them.

Tigers came with a tactic of chopping low knowing that Quins like to carry hard to gain initial momentum and then hit the clever runners with that momentum and Care playing quick. By chopping, even when behind the gain line there was always someone there to contest and the more physical Tigers pack just made it an effort to clear out every breakdown. Slowed the Quins attack for most the game.

Lawday or Chisholm would have added some additional muscle to the clear out most certainly. I did wonder if Quins would move a lock onto the flank to try and give them some more presence when clearing out the breakdown.

Who? We might have re-signed Charlie Matthews, but he's out, Lewies is out, and we're left with a couple of kids, pretty much. We just don't have the depth in the back 5 of the pack to cope with injuries. I know it's not very nice, but Quins really need to take advantage of the situation with Wasps and Wuss. If we're hitting the cap limits, we've screwed up royally AGAIN. As the squad really does lack depth in most positions outside the bloody wings again.

Stom wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:17 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 5:43 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:44 am Chisholm or Lawday would have added a lot, but they’re not the same kind of threat that require 3 defenders to be on their toes to mark them.

Tigers came with a tactic of chopping low knowing that Quins like to carry hard to gain initial momentum and then hit the clever runners with that momentum and Care playing quick. By chopping, even when behind the gain line there was always someone there to contest and the more physical Tigers pack just made it an effort to clear out every breakdown. Slowed the Quins attack for most the game.

Lawday or Chisholm would have added some additional muscle to the clear out most certainly. I did wonder if Quins would move a lock onto the flank to try and give them some more presence when clearing out the breakdown.

Who? We might have re-signed Charlie Matthews, but he's out, Lewies is out, and we're left with a couple of kids, pretty much. We just don't have the depth in the back 5 of the pack to cope with injuries. I know it's not very nice, but Quins really need to take advantage of the situation with Wasps and Wuss. If we're hitting the cap limits, we've screwed up royally AGAIN. As the squad really does lack depth in most positions outside the bloody wings again.

Launchbury or Clegg would be good pick ups for you. Big and mobile blokes.

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:03 pm

Stom wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:17 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 5:43 pm

Tigers came with a tactic of chopping low knowing that Quins like to carry hard to gain initial momentum and then hit the clever runners with that momentum and Care playing quick. By chopping, even when behind the gain line there was always someone there to contest and the more physical Tigers pack just made it an effort to clear out every breakdown. Slowed the Quins attack for most the game.

Lawday or Chisholm would have added some additional muscle to the clear out most certainly. I did wonder if Quins would move a lock onto the flank to try and give them some more presence when clearing out the breakdown.

Who? We might have re-signed Charlie Matthews, but he's out, Lewies is out, and we're left with a couple of kids, pretty much. We just don't have the depth in the back 5 of the pack to cope with injuries. I know it's not very nice, but Quins really need to take advantage of the situation with Wasps and Wuss. If we're hitting the cap limits, we've screwed up royally AGAIN. As the squad really does lack depth in most positions outside the bloody wings again.

Launchbury or Clegg would be good pick ups for you. Big and mobile blokes.

Well, exactly. But there wasn't much we could do to change the Leicester game with personnel.

I read elsewhere that Clegg has chosen to retire

Stom wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:01 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:03 pm

Stom wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:17 pm

Who? We might have re-signed Charlie Matthews, but he's out, Lewies is out, and we're left with a couple of kids, pretty much. We just don't have the depth in the back 5 of the pack to cope with injuries. I know it's not very nice, but Quins really need to take advantage of the situation with Wasps and Wuss. If we're hitting the cap limits, we've screwed up royally AGAIN. As the squad really does lack depth in most positions outside the bloody wings again.

Launchbury or Clegg would be good pick ups for you. Big and mobile blokes.

Well, exactly. But there wasn't much we could do to change the Leicester game with personnel.

Could have put Hammond on at 6 and thrown some extra weight at the rucks. Could have started looking for drop goal opportunities. Quins had more possession and territory but couldn't get past getting done over at the breakdown. Maybe lacking a bit of a plan B though that may have been kick and compete at the lineout but Quins didn't get much joy there either.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:26 pm I read elsewhere that Clegg has chosen to retire

Ah that's a shame. I'd have thought a 6ft8 and 19 stone lock that's mobile enough to also play 6 should have been able to find a team either here or over in France.