RugbyRebels

morepork wrote:

Lizard wrote:Disappointing to see the Old Boys Network still in effect in 2016.

It's the main thing holding them back. Long may it continue.

Teach you to hound an innocent lad out of his homeland

Looks alright until you get to the scrum halfs. Care and Young. Cripes

Lizard wrote:Disappointing to see the Old Boys Network still in effect in 2016.

What do you mean by that?

Exciting squad and hopefully Wasps won't make the play-offs to reinforce it with Launchbury, Robson, Simpson and Daly. I'm torn on the other semi-final - obviously I'd like Leicester to win, but there's a lot to be said for ensuring that Ashton won't play!

Puja

Puja wrote:

Lizard wrote:Disappointing to see the Old Boys Network still in effect in 2016.

What do you mean by that?
...

Puja

I mean that it's ridiculous that a bloke has made his way into this training squad just because he went to the same school as the captain.

Oakboy wrote:Watching the Quins v Exeter match yesterday was fascinating in terns of backrow comparison. Robshaw worked his nuts off to little effect. Clifford and Easter went missing. I'd not rate Clifford's international future that highly.

Clifford really didn't go missing at all. He was involved continuously throughout the game. Robshaw was excellent in a side that got munched.

Oh and writing off his international future from one game? Pantomime villain much?

Lizard wrote:

Puja wrote:

Lizard wrote:Disappointing to see the Old Boys Network still in effect in 2016.

What do you mean by that?
...

Puja

I mean that it's ridiculous that a bloke has made his way into this training squad just because he went to the same school as the captain.

Well he's English qualified for a start as his dad is English.

The same school as the captain bit is a smudge of a red herring. He was mainly sounded out to see if he could help find an opportunity for the kid to further his rugby career and to get him out of the environment where he was known for killing one of his best friends.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Lizard wrote:

Puja wrote:
What do you mean by that?
...

Puja

I mean that it's ridiculous that a bloke has made his way into this training squad just because he went to the same school as the captain.

Well he's English qualified for a start as his dad is English.

The same school as the captain bit is a smudge of a red herring. He was mainly sounded out to see if he could help find an opportunity for the kid to further his rugby career and to get him out of the environment where he was known for killing one of his best friends.

They way I heard it (and I'm open to correction with sauce) was Hartley was visiting his alma mater and saw him play, and made enquiries. Obviously that dovetailed nicely with the desire to get him out of Dodge, but had Hartley not been an old boy of his school, he would have ended up somewhere else other than Leicester.

The real red herring is the fact his mum was knocked up by a Pom. He would qualify on residency by now anyway.

Lizard wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Lizard wrote: I mean that it's ridiculous that a bloke has made his way into this training squad just because he went to the same school as the captain.

Well he's English qualified for a start as his dad is English.

The same school as the captain bit is a smudge of a red herring. He was mainly sounded out to see if he could help find an opportunity for the kid to further his rugby career and to get him out of the environment where he was known for killing one of his best friends.

They way I heard it (and I'm open to correction with sauce) was Hartley was visiting his alma mater and saw him play, and made enquiries. Obviously that dovetailed nicely with the desire to get him out of Dodge, but had Hartley not been an old boy of his school, he would have ended up somewhere else other than Leicester.

The real red herring is the fact his mum was knocked up by a Pom. He would qualify on residency by now anyway.

A BBC article a few years back suggested the other way around - his school coach phoned Hartley to find him a place at Northampton because he wanted to leave.

Puja

Report here said "England skipper Dylan Hartley recruited Harrison to Northampton when he visited his old school during the 2011 Rugby World Cup."
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/arti ... d=11635827

That's not to say he hadn't already been in touch.

Still, Poachy McPoachface, right?

Lizard wrote:

Puja wrote:

Lizard wrote:Disappointing to see the Old Boys Network still in effect in 2016.

What do you mean by that?
...

Puja

I mean that it's ridiculous that a bloke has made his way into this training squad just because he went to the same school as the captain.

You know, it could be that he has been one of the best backrows of the season? Certainly the best back row at Saints this season.

That may be so, but he would never have been at Saints if Hartley hadn't visited his old school, innit?

So the moral of the story is???

A lot of people wouldn't be in different places if they didn't already know people in different places?

Did I get that right? That's not a moral really is it?

Mikey Brown wrote:
A lot of people wouldn't be in different places if they didn't already know people in different places?

Zactly. Like Prince Charles for one.

Well shit...

When you put it like that.

Lizard wrote:That may be so, but he would never have been at Saints if Hartley hadn't visited his old school, innit?

WTF are you on about, its all a bit straw man anyway and nice stuff coming from the land of the long white cloud of poaching from the pacific islands, yeeaatthhhh!

I'm just saying that since Hartley blazed the path, being a troubled youth out of Rotorua Boys High School with a penchant for terrible haircuts seems be a direct path into the upper echelons of English rugby.

I mean seriously, you really want to claim this on the basis of English blood?

He would fit right in at exeter.

Lizard wrote:I'm just saying that since Hartley blazed the path, being a troubled youth out of Rotorua Boys High School with a penchant for terrible haircuts seems be a direct path into the upper echelons of English rugby.

I mean seriously, you really want to claim this on the basis of English blood?

A direct path? They're not exactly rugby league players - Hartley wasn't capped by England until he'd been in the country 6 years. Harrison's only just started playing regularly for Saints this season and has only made it into a preliminary training squad after having been in the country 5 years.

Suggests to me that they both needed a significant amount of work to bring them up to standard after leaving NZ.

Puja

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: I believe Jack was England's winningest coach, funnily enough.

Toulon have shown you can win a lot of games by just putting carriers all over the shop even in the modern game. Though they've tended to look a lot better with Armitage in their back row, even if the following week they still want to pick the bigger guy. He was an odd chap was Rowell, and on the couple of instances I've met him he'd make Guscott look modest, and that takes some doing.

I've met him too, and he's not your average fella, but interesting and successful in a couple of arenas- different era, and I'm not sure about his methods as they'd apply today, but I'd think his track record indicates he warrants some respect. I was kind of joking when referencing his track record as England coach, but his overall impact worth a pause for thought even if you don't 'like' the way he went about it- winning is quite important.

First time I met him he was the England coach and he was in theory turning up to watch training and perhaps make a suggestion or two, and to say we were in awe might be an under statement. My main thought first meeting him was I had no idea he was that tall. I think I was 16 or so and I recall him walking over and looking down at me (from memory a long way down) and saying 'my name's Rowell' before walking off and leaving that as the sum extent of his coaching for the day. At the time I liked him as England coach, looking back I'm much more admiring of his time at Bath, even there I think his best move was to leave the work to others. And it's not that he was directly rude, it was more he'd tend to not even acknowledge your existence, I suspect he'd be quite different if dealing with what he felt were peers, or perhaps players who actually warranted his attention. That said he was by some accounts really quite short and dismissive of several England players, and he was instrumental in keeping us playing 10 man rugby way more than i'm comfortable with.

Puja wrote:

Lizard wrote:I'm just saying that since Hartley blazed the path, being a troubled youth out of Rotorua Boys High School with a penchant for terrible haircuts seems be a direct path into the upper echelons of English rugby.

I mean seriously, you really want to claim this on the basis of English blood?

A direct path? They're not exactly rugby league players - Hartley wasn't capped by England until he'd been in the country 6 years. Harrison's only just started playing regularly for Saints this season and has only made it into a preliminary training squad after having been in the country 5 years.

Suggests to me that they both needed a significant amount of work to bring them up to standard after leaving NZ.

Puja

Unlike all those 18 year olds strolling straight from the playing fields of Eton into your national squad.

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
Toulon have shown you can win a lot of games by just putting carriers all over the shop even in the modern game. Though they've tended to look a lot better with Armitage in their back row, even if the following week they still want to pick the bigger guy. He was an odd chap was Rowell, and on the couple of instances I've met him he'd make Guscott look modest, and that takes some doing.

I've met him too, and he's not your average fella, but interesting and successful in a couple of arenas- different era, and I'm not sure about his methods as they'd apply today, but I'd think his track record indicates he warrants some respect. I was kind of joking when referencing his track record as England coach, but his overall impact worth a pause for thought even if you don't 'like' the way he went about it- winning is quite important.

First time I met him he was the England coach and he was in theory turning up to watch training and perhaps make a suggestion or two, and to say we were in awe might be an under statement. My main thought first meeting him was I had no idea he was that tall. I think I was 16 or so and I recall him walking over and looking down at me (from memory a long way down) and saying 'my name's Rowell' before walking off and leaving that as the sum extent of his coaching for the day. At the time I liked him as England coach, looking back I'm much more admiring of his time at Bath, even there I think his best move was to leave the work to others. And it's not that he was directly rude, it was more he'd tend to not even acknowledge your existence, I suspect he'd be quite different if dealing with what he felt were peers, or perhaps players who actually warranted his attention. That said he was by some accounts really quite short and dismissive of several England players, and he was instrumental in keeping us playing 10 man rugby way more than i'm comfortable with.

worked to a degree with what he had (and the side he took over had become very conservative post 1991 and all that) and produced winning teams (not to be sneezed at, and he wasn't paid to be liked; I didn't agree with what he did a lot of the time, but then it wasn't my accountability), because as you say his Bath days saw an excellent team. His height is even more surprising given he was a hooker for Gosforth.

Banquo wrote:His height is even more surprising given he was a hooker for Gosforth.

I don't think I ever knew that. I'd assumed 8 or perhaps a 6, and had I been told he played lock given when he played I'd have accepted that as more than reasonable.

Edit - Actually this suggests (even allowing for he's perhaps wearing heels rather than having studs going into the ground) he could play lock pretty much whenever;



And he wasn't rake thin by any means.

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:His height is even more surprising given he was a hooker for Gosforth.

I don't think I ever knew that. I'd assumed 8 or perhaps a 6, and had I been told he played lock given when he played I'd have accepted that as more than reasonable.

I could be talking bollox of course- I was told that, but could have been made-up! Second row from his era much more likely.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:His height is even more surprising given he was a hooker for Gosforth.

I don't think I ever knew that. I'd assumed 8 or perhaps a 6, and had I been told he played lock given when he played I'd have accepted that as more than reasonable.

I could be talking bollox of course- I was told that, but could have been made-up! Second row from his era much more likely.

I shall henceforth let slip the tidbit that he was the prototype for Banahan being a marauding giant of a winger

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
I don't think I ever knew that. I'd assumed 8 or perhaps a 6, and had I been told he played lock given when he played I'd have accepted that as more than reasonable.

I could be talking bollox of course- I was told that, but could have been made-up! Second row from his era much more likely.

I shall henceforth let slip the tidbit that he was the prototype for Banahan being a marauding giant of a winger

only fair

Bill Beaumont definitely started out as a 15.