Regions.... The Way Forward

[Numbers]

East and West would make the most sense, with a Northern team for development. Just been reading that some Cardiff players who were on 6 figure salaries are being offered £30K for next season. Clearly we can't afford 4 teams and need to stop kicking about trying to spread the jam that far. East and West along the M4 corridor would encompass the Premiership clubs and give that a natural top tier.

Yep, the WRU seems to think that four regions can survive with squads of up to 36 players, that's pie in the sky.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Unfortunately the WRU have enough on their hands trying to modernise their own organisation. Drastic change to the regions seems unlikely in the short term (otherwise wouldn't we need an entirely new service agreement to be negotiated and signed?). Unless one (or more) region actually collapses.

[Sandydragon]

Unfortunately the WRU have enough on their hands trying to modernise their own organisation. Drastic change to the regions seems unlikely in the short term (otherwise wouldn't we need an entirely new service agreement to be negotiated and signed?). Unless one (or more) region actually collapses.

Will the regions have enough players to be able to field squads for next season? Players who have been offered a quarter of what they were contracted for last season will walk.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Unfortunately the WRU have enough on their hands trying to modernise their own organisation. Drastic change to the regions seems unlikely in the short term (otherwise wouldn't we need an entirely new service agreement to be negotiated and signed?). Unless one (or more) region actually collapses.

Will the regions have enough players to be able to field squads for next season? Players who have been offered a quarter of what they were contracted for last season will walk.

I guess they'll make the numbers up with academy players etc. Maybe all 4 will become development regions.

[Sandydragon]

Regardless, I think were screwed for the next few years. If we want decent teams in 5 years time then we need reform now, otherwise we will just pull through promising youngsters who will travel to England or France to become good players. Not sure thats entirely sustainable or even needs a professional set up in Wales.

[pompey-zebra]

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Will the regions have enough players to be able to field squads for next season? Players who have been offered a quarter of what they were contracted for last season will walk.

Fail reports that Cardiff Rugby says it doesn't have the funding for players, coaches and staff to form a squad next season

[UKHamlet]

Cardiff supporters wouldn't watch an East Wales team. There is intense rivalry between Cardiff and Newport that I wouldn't expect a Jack to understand. We'd be better off allying to Llanelli, who have a similar enmity with Swansea. We dislike Swansea teams, but it doesn't contain the element of friction Newport does.

This whole idea is utterly risible

fuck Cardiff supporters, with the greatest respect Martyn. They can watch the club side. thats been the trouble with Welsh rugby - parochialism

On the contrary - "Fuck Cardiff supporters" is what's wrong with rugby. The supporters ARE rugby. There is NO tradition of regions or provinces in Wales, as there is in Ireland. Any solution that doesn't involve a link to the clubs is doomed to failure. Get your head out of your arse and take a commercial look, rather than some hypothetical "let's divide the country up by arbitrary NSEW divisions and parachute regions in there." It ain't going to work, sunshine. It needs to be Cardiff, Swansea and Llanelli. And that's it.

[UKHamlet]

If you want to know where the problem lies - it's in this sentence:

"The WRU investment in the game has decreased from £47.5m to £34.6m, primarily down to reduced allocations to the four professional regions."

That's from 2021. The WRU is fucking the regions in the arse.

[Sandydragon]

Cardiff supporters wouldn't watch an East Wales team. There is intense rivalry between Cardiff and Newport that I wouldn't expect a Jack to understand. We'd be better off allying to Llanelli, who have a similar enmity with Swansea. We dislike Swansea teams, but it doesn't contain the element of friction Newport does.

This whole idea is utterly risible

fuck Cardiff supporters, with the greatest respect Martyn. They can watch the club side. thats been the trouble with Welsh rugby - parochialism

On the contrary - "Fuck Cardiff supporters" is what's wrong with rugby. The supporters ARE rugby. There is NO tradition of regions or provinces in Wales, as there is in Ireland. Any solution that doesn't involve a link to the clubs is doomed to failure. Get your head out of your arse and take a commercial look, rather than some hypothetical "let's divide the country up by arbitrary NSEW divisions and parachute regions in there." It ain't going to work, sunshine. It needs to be Cardiff, Swansea and Llanelli. And that's it.

So that’s every club in Gwent disenfranchised. That last
Quite a high percentage who no longer have a stake at the top level. That solution doesn’t work either.

[Sourdust]

How important - in the current set-up - is income from season ticket sales?

I ask because while I see the logic for East / West, I can't realistically see myself stumping up for a ST if I have to travel from Swansea to Llanelli or Bridgend etc. for most of the games. On an ad-hoc basis, it's fine, but a ST becomes non-viable. And if a part of the problem is identified as a LACK of identity, that's only going to be exacerbated by Scarlets fans only going to watch "West Wales" when they're at PyS, Os only going to NameMyStadium.Com, and no-one at all turning up at the Brewery.

[UKHamlet]

fuck Cardiff supporters, with the greatest respect Martyn. They can watch the club side. thats been the trouble with Welsh rugby - parochialism

On the contrary - "Fuck Cardiff supporters" is what's wrong with rugby. The supporters ARE rugby. There is NO tradition of regions or provinces in Wales, as there is in Ireland. Any solution that doesn't involve a link to the clubs is doomed to failure. Get your head out of your arse and take a commercial look, rather than some hypothetical "let's divide the country up by arbitrary NSEW divisions and parachute regions in there." It ain't going to work, sunshine. It needs to be Cardiff, Swansea and Llanelli. And that's it.

So that’s every club in Gwent disenfranchised. That last
Quite a high percentage who no longer have a stake at the top level. That solution doesn’t work either.

I envisage some fluidity in this with some kind of promotion/relegation. Not sure how that would work, but it'll give the clubs something to fight for. The current setup is a recipe for complacency.

[Tuco Ramirez]

Cardiff supporters wouldn't watch an East Wales team. There is intense rivalry between Cardiff and Newport that I wouldn't expect a Jack to understand. We'd be better off allying to Llanelli, who have a similar enmity with Swansea. We dislike Swansea teams, but it doesn't contain the element of friction Newport does.

This whole idea is utterly risible

fuck Cardiff supporters, with the greatest respect Martyn. They can watch the club side. thats been the trouble with Welsh rugby - parochialism

On the contrary - "Fuck Cardiff supporters" is what's wrong with rugby. The supporters ARE rugby. There is NO tradition of regions or provinces in Wales, as there is in Ireland. Any solution that doesn't involve a link to the clubs is doomed to failure. Get your head out of your arse and take a commercial look, rather than some hypothetical "let's divide the country up by arbitrary NSEW divisions and parachute regions in there." It ain't going to work, sunshine. It needs to be Cardiff, Swansea and Llanelli. And that's it.

No Martyn, it should be a total breakaway. Without even mentioning other clubs, are you saying Gwent should have nothing? YOU get your head out of your Cardiff arse. They are now saying they cannot afford to run a team..... fuck em....get back in line like everybody else.

[Sandydragon]

On the contrary - "Fuck Cardiff supporters" is what's wrong with rugby. The supporters ARE rugby. There is NO tradition of regions or provinces in Wales, as there is in Ireland. Any solution that doesn't involve a link to the clubs is doomed to failure. Get your head out of your arse and take a commercial look, rather than some hypothetical "let's divide the country up by arbitrary NSEW divisions and parachute regions in there." It ain't going to work, sunshine. It needs to be Cardiff, Swansea and Llanelli. And that's it.

So that’s every club in Gwent disenfranchised. That last
Quite a high percentage who no longer have a stake at the top level. That solution doesn’t work either.

I envisage some fluidity in this with some kind of promotion/relegation. Not sure how that would work, but it'll give the clubs something to fight for. The current setup is a recipe for complacency.

Your idea is closer to the English model and I'd suggest that we are too small and don't have the money to sustain that. If the new regions are WRU owned then theres nothing to compete for above the Premiership. Its also not good for us with only 3 super clubs to have one being relegated every year/ 2 years. That's not going to build a lasting pedigree. The Irish regions may have a lot more history than us, but the problem is the club approach automatically disenfranchises a lot of people and has resulted in the 'meh' attitude to the regions by many. Its not as if Warriors supporters automatically drifted to Cardiff after their dissolution. A regional approach only works if everyone in the region feels they have some stake in it.

[Sandydragon]

Sounds like the WRU is in full meltdown mode. Threat of resignations if the changes don’t get approved. Some interesting articles in the Fail today.

[Sandydragon]

Principality also threatening to walk away unless reform voted through.

[UKHamlet]

So that’s every club in Gwent disenfranchised. That last
Quite a high percentage who no longer have a stake at the top level. That solution doesn’t work either.

I envisage some fluidity in this with some kind of promotion/relegation. Not sure how that would work, but it'll give the clubs something to fight for. The current setup is a recipe for complacency.

Your idea is closer to the English model and I'd suggest that we are too small and don't have the money to sustain that. If the new regions are WRU owned then theres nothing to compete for above the Premiership. Its also not good for us with only 3 super clubs to have one being relegated every year/ 2 years. That's not going to build a lasting pedigree. The Irish regions may have a lot more history than us, but the problem is the club approach automatically disenfranchises a lot of people and has resulted in the 'meh' attitude to the regions by many. Its not as if Warriors supporters automatically drifted to Cardiff after their dissolution. A regional approach only works if everyone in the region feels they have some stake in it.

I wasn't thinking of a stand-alone league, but still playing in the Pro-xx. Relegation would only come into play if the club was bottom of their division. That would focus their minds. There would have to be ground / funding criteria for any promoted club, so it might not happen, but it would incentivise the three clubs in the League to do better than coast.