RugbyRebels

Adam_P wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:06 pm Jesus wept, so many unforced errors. Pathetic showing from Saints tonight. Many thanks England.

Well Tempo has just given you a try from a clear forward pass.

You've got enough starters still available not to be turned over like this. You're missing 5 with England. Tigers have been missing at least the same since the tournament began. Bristol are missing their only good props and Saints are still getting done over at scrum time. Not sure you can lay this one at the door of England even if you'd like a couple more back.

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:03 pm If Bristol don't take their foot off the gas this could get really ugly.

It's already pretty ugly!

All this talk of player release from England is missing the main point, IMO. Just scrap the gap weeks and everything evens out.

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:13 pm

Adam_P wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:06 pm Jesus wept, so many unforced errors. Pathetic showing from Saints tonight. Many thanks England.

Well Tempo has just given you a try from a clear forward pass.

You've got enough starters still available not to be turned over like this. You're missing 5 with England. Tigers have been missing at least the same since the tournament began. Bristol are missing their only good props and Saints are still getting done over at scrum time. Not sure you can lay this one at the door of England even if you'd like a couple more back.

We're missing 13 from the first choice 23. Whilst it's still stupid playing Prem during international periods, I don't massively begrudge losing players to play for England. Losing players to hold tackle bags on a non-international weekend with basically no prospect of playing for England in the remain games is bullshit.

And you're right, Tempest is the worst ref in the Prem.

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:13 pm

Adam_P wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:06 pm Jesus wept, so many unforced errors. Pathetic showing from Saints tonight. Many thanks England.

Well Tempo has just given you a try from a clear forward pass.

You've got enough starters still available not to be turned over like this. You're missing 5 with England. Tigers have been missing at least the same since the tournament began. Bristol are missing their only good props and Saints are still getting done over at scrum time. Not sure you can lay this one at the door of England even if you'd like a couple more back.

Agreed, Saints non tackling is just dire.

Collins has been about the only decent Saints player. Hope the rumours of him leaving aren't true.

Adam_P wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:19 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:13 pm

Adam_P wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:06 pm Jesus wept, so many unforced errors. Pathetic showing from Saints tonight. Many thanks England.

Well Tempo has just given you a try from a clear forward pass.

You've got enough starters still available not to be turned over like this. You're missing 5 with England. Tigers have been missing at least the same since the tournament began. Bristol are missing their only good props and Saints are still getting done over at scrum time. Not sure you can lay this one at the door of England even if you'd like a couple more back.

We're missing 13 from the first choice 23. Whilst it's still stupid playing Prem during international periods, I don't massively begrudge losing players to play for England. Losing players to hold tackle bags on a non-international weekend with basically no prospect of playing for England in the remain games is bullshit.

And you're right, Tempest is the worst ref in the Prem.

You've got four of your first choice tight five in the squad. First choice midfield. That should be enough to give you stability enough not to concede 62 points.

I do generally agree about the rest weeks, two rest weeks is complete overkill. Three games, one week off and then two games would work better for the tournament. If England are going to train during the rest week then they are going to have to keep a certain number of players to actually make the training meaningful which means two tight gives so they can run opposed lineout drills.

Man, I hope Bristol are back. Such good fun to watch and that style of play should be rewarded with wins.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:17 pm Man, I hope Bristol are back. Such good fun to watch and that style of play should be rewarded with wins.

Agreed. They've just been missing in action, pretty much since Quins traumatised them by somehow coming back from being dead and buried in the semi-final and then repeated the dose without another Lazarus at the start of the next season. It knocked the belief right out of them. Add to that the ridiculously top-heavy squad, made worse by the contract debacle, and the run of injuries they've had has crippled them.

That was a performance right out of 2021, aided by a day where every single bounce of the ball and rub of the green went in their favour. If it gets the belief back in them (and they can keep their superstars fit), they could be really dangerous come the end of the season.

Puja

Kin ell

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:03 pm If Bristol don't take their foot off the gas this could get really ugly.

It did

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:03 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:17 pm Man, I hope Bristol are back. Such good fun to watch and that style of play should be rewarded with wins.

Agreed. They've just been missing in action, pretty much since Quins traumatised them by somehow coming back from being dead and buried in the semi-final and then repeated the dose without another Lazarus at the start of the next season. It knocked the belief right out of them. Add to that the ridiculously top-heavy squad, made worse by the contract debacle, and the run of injuries they've had has crippled them.

That was a performance right out of 2021, aided by a day where every single bounce of the ball and rub of the green went in their favour. If it gets the belief back in them (and they can keep their superstars fit), they could be really dangerous come the end of the season.

Puja

Too heavy in terms of forwards or superstar talent?

I had this on in the background last night. What a massacre.

Think this has been building over the last few weeks, but for me that was the best Bristol performance for a couple of years. Terrific running, handling, support work, ruck clearing and all round pace in attack allied to some steely defence and a reliable set piece. Pat will be beaming with that effort. Thought Randall, Thacker and Harding were outstanding. Batley is a very under rated lock and the unsung reserve props did a fine job.
Saints can feel aggrieved by the absence of England squad members but still put out a very respectable looking side and did enjoy a pretty good opening quarter.

Let's face it, nobody, from arch-Saints-supporter to neutral, would have looked at those two sets of 23 players beforehand and predicted that result. Having said that, I hope enough noise is made about the absence of players for the 6N programme and the premiership's fixtures to be looked at afresh. It is simply wrong to have gap weeks in the 6N and for premiership fixtures to coincide with England matches and any 6N matches.

jimKRFC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 1:15 pm Saints:
1 Ethan Waller, 2 Sam Matavesi, 3 Alfie Petch
4 Lukhan Salakaia-Loto, 5 Alex Moon, 6 Alex Coles, 7 Angus Scott-Young, 8 Sam Graham

15 George Hendy, 14 Courtnall Skosan, 13 Fraser Dingwall (c), 12 Rory Hutchinson, 11 Tom Collins, 10 Fin Smith, 9 Callum Braley

Replacements:
16 Tom Cruse, 17 Alex Waller, 18 Paul Hill, 19 Karl Wilkins, 20 Aaron Hinkley, 21 Jake Garside, 22 James Grayson, 23 Tom Litchfield

Saints more affected by call ups, but have put a good series of results in with this side. Probably Saints favourite to win, but should be a good game!

This isn’t a even a particularly weak Saints lineup. Of course Lawes, Ludlam, Augustus, Mitchell and Furbank would improve it a fair bit, but with the exception of Hendy, their replacements in the side are all experienced players who have been getting regular game time.

The most striking thing for me was the defending in the backs. As much as the forwards were poor, it’s worth noting IMO that Saints’ first choice midfield got carved up time and again.

Bristol were missing fewer key players, but as @Oakboy said, no-one looking at the team sheets would have expected Saints to get walloped so badly.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 4:03 am

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:03 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:17 pm Man, I hope Bristol are back. Such good fun to watch and that style of play should be rewarded with wins.

Agreed. They've just been missing in action, pretty much since Quins traumatised them by somehow coming back from being dead and buried in the semi-final and then repeated the dose without another Lazarus at the start of the next season. It knocked the belief right out of them. Add to that the ridiculously top-heavy squad, made worse by the contract debacle, and the run of injuries they've had has crippled them.

That was a performance right out of 2021, aided by a day where every single bounce of the ball and rub of the green went in their favour. If it gets the belief back in them (and they can keep their superstars fit), they could be really dangerous come the end of the season.

Puja

Too heavy in terms of forwards or superstar talent?

In terms of them buying a superstar 1st XV and having nothing behind it.

Puja

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:01 am

jimKRFC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 1:15 pm Saints:
1 Ethan Waller, 2 Sam Matavesi, 3 Alfie Petch
4 Lukhan Salakaia-Loto, 5 Alex Moon, 6 Alex Coles, 7 Angus Scott-Young, 8 Sam Graham

15 George Hendy, 14 Courtnall Skosan, 13 Fraser Dingwall (c), 12 Rory Hutchinson, 11 Tom Collins, 10 Fin Smith, 9 Callum Braley

Replacements:
16 Tom Cruse, 17 Alex Waller, 18 Paul Hill, 19 Karl Wilkins, 20 Aaron Hinkley, 21 Jake Garside, 22 James Grayson, 23 Tom Litchfield

Saints more affected by call ups, but have put a good series of results in with this side. Probably Saints favourite to win, but should be a good game!

This isn’t a even a particularly weak Saints lineup. Of course Lawes, Ludlam, Augustus, Mitchell and Furbank would improve it a fair bit, but with the exception of Hendy, their replacements in the side are all experienced players who have been getting regular game time.

Freeman, Ribbans, Proctor, Sleightholme, Ramm, James, Iyogun... It's a very depleted side.

Saying that though, there's absolutely no excuse for the poor defensive alignment all game and individuals missing tackles they should be making every time. We've now conceded more than 100 points more than the next club - leaky defence is tolerable when we're running in loads of tries, but last night we failed to convert anything (bar a try that shouldn't have been awarded).

Depleted in terms of squad maybe, but the likes of Skosan, Collins, Alex Waller and Moon are regular starters and Braley is an international who has more Premiership experience than James. Let’s not pretend it was a side made up of bit part second string players and academy kids.

When I look at last night’s Saints lineup in comparison to what a lot of clubs are fielding during the Six Nations, there really is no excuse.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:36 am Depleted in terms of squad maybe, but the likes of Skosan, Collins, Alex Waller and Moon are regular starters and Braley is an international who has more Premiership experience than James. Let’s not pretend it was a side made up of bit part second string players and academy kids.

When I look at last night’s Saints lineup in comparison to what a lot of clubs are fielding during the Six Nations, there really is no excuse.

Yep terrible performance and result

Well I don't think anyone expected that! CP draw the attention by Harding and Bradbury were really good & either should have been considered for MoM as well.

I that the low number of changes definitely helped the cohesion of the side, you could see that were things were just off against Bath there was more understanding of where other players would run etc.. to make things stick. Just need to back it up against Quins now - would be a real confience booster to (finally) get the win over them!

The shine taken off a little with the injuries to Jeff Reece and Naulago and the news CP is looking like he's going...

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:13 pm Bristol are missing their only good props and Saints are still getting done over at scrum time. Not sure you can lay this one at the door of England even if you'd like a couple more back.

In regards of the scrum things appear to be changing. I wrote this after the Bath game: Apart from the first scrum it seems that Bristol has a slight edge in the set piece! This is a bit of shock as normally without Genge/Sinckler we're a penalty machine here, but Lahiff/Thacker/Thomas are doing the job in the tight and in the loose. Nice to see as it means Healey has to shut up after his pre-match comments about Bath being far superior there! Perhaps Irish's effect is starting to come through...

Change of front rows does nothing for Bath with Woolmore, Bryne, Kloska coping well with Stuart, Dunn and Schoeman. Pleased with Kloska as he's still learning the position.

I think the improvement in the scrum is the return of Mark Irish as scrum coach, we were strong in the set piece with him in his first stint, fell apart when he went and now are getting back to being (if not dominant) a liability there. As good a player as Afoa was - I'm not sure he was ready to be a coach at this level.

Kloska appears to be making a very good transition to prop. Technically he looks very sound. He's just 23 so has time on his side to develop further. Must say i was surprised at the decision to move him but it seems to be paying off.

Yes good coaching doesn't half make a difference. It seems to be the case that the better technical coaches are the ones that didn't take to the game as natural talents and who had to really work hard at it.