SF v SA

[Banquo]

I'd definitely want Lawrence starting. He is a useful mix of physicality, pace and trickery. I'd play him at 12 and omit Tuilagi but SB won't. The best we can hope for is Lawrence at 13 with Marchant (undroppable) on the wing. I think Daly offers more than May for the other wing shirt. Risking Arundel at FB sounds like fun but I'd be surprised if Steward does not return.

One concern is matching their second row. I especially don't like not feeling comfortable with kicking to touch. Somehow, we have to compete with their lineout. That means Itoje and Lawes (at 6) but whoever partners Itoje out of Chessum, Ribbans and Martin has to offer something i.e. be worthy of calling it to them on our throw and offering competition on theirs.

Not sure why you are so down on Manu, he was terrific with the ball v Fiji (his defence patchy, tis true), and at this point he's still better than Lawrence at 12. Marchant has to stay at 13, he's wasted in defence on the wing.

You've gone a leap too far with Chessum not being thrown to- whatever we think re Shocked Blimeyinthesemi he knows his lineout.

How often?

5 effective carries, one pass. He's got over the gainline, not just the tackle line on pretty much every carry this tournie.

[p/d]

Not sure why you are so down on Manu, he was terrific with the ball v Fiji (his defence patchy, tis true), and at this point he's still better than Lawrence at 12. Marchant has to stay at 13, he's wasted in defence on the wing.

You've gone a leap too far with Chessum not being thrown to- whatever we think re Shocked Blimeyinthesemi he knows his lineout.

How often?

5 effective carries, one pass. He's got over the gainline, not just the tackle line on pretty much every carry this tournie.

5 & 1 more than Cole.

justice4daniel

[jngf]

If I was going to load the back 5 on the big is best principle ( which I don’t think will work necessarily) I’d be tempted to try 4 Chessum 5 Ribbans 6 Lawes 8 Martin 7 Itoje

[Mr Mwenda]

How often?

5 effective carries, one pass. He's got over the gainline, not just the tackle line on pretty much every carry this tournie.

5 & 1 more than Cole.

justice4daniel

He is a merry old soul.

[Banquo]

If I was going to load the back 5 on the big is best principle ( which I don’t think we’ll work necessarily) I’d be tempted to try 4 Chessum 5 Ribbans 6 Lawes 8 Martin 7 Itoje

bot

[p/d]

If I was going to load the back 5 on the big is best principle ( which I don’t think we’ll work necessarily) I’d be tempted to try 4 Chessum 5 Ribbans 6 Lawes 8 Martin 7 Itoje

Why is that?

[jngf]

If I was going to load the back 5 on the big is best principle ( which I don’t think we’ll work necessarily) I’d be tempted to try 4 Chessum 5 Ribbans 6 Lawes 8 Martin 7 Itoje

Why is that?

Lack of any speed (Ribbans excepted) - the boks giants: Bruno, the last of the Mohicans, PSDT and Vermillian are also deceptively quick for big men

[p/d]

If I was going to load the back 5 on the big is best principle ( which I don’t think we’ll work necessarily) I’d be tempted to try 4 Chessum 5 Ribbans 6 Lawes 8 Martin 7 Itoje

Why is that?

Lack of any speed (Ribbans excepted) - the boks giants: Bruno, the last of the Mohicans, PSDT and Vermillian are also deceptively quick for big men

You think speed is the problem in that back row

[FKAS]

Not sure I'd drop Chessum. Thought he was one of our most combative forwards yesterday. I'd agree the backrow needs some additional muscle adding to it but I'm unconvinced it's BillyV, not with how rapid South Africa played Vs France (damn, that game was awesome). I thought Marler was off the pace when he came on as well.

Genge, George, Sinckler
Martin, Itoje
Chessum, Earl, Lawes
Mitchell, Ford (but Silver Balls will pick Farrell)
Manu, Marchant
May, Smith, Steward

Dan, Marler, Cole, Ribbans, Curry, BillyV, Care, Lawrence.

Seriously, I like the Leicester players but why would you shoe horn Martin in by shifting Chessum to the back row. Better off putting Chessum on the wing if you want them both to start.

Because he's got plenty of past experience playing in the backrow? Doesn't massively matter, swap him back with Martin. The general idea was beef up the pack so that SA are least forces to create the space and run round us as opposed to just through us. They'll still run round us but at least we might be able to make them work for it a bit.

[jngf]

Why is that?

Lack of any speed (Ribbans excepted) - the boks giants: Bruno, the last of the Mohicans, PSDT and Vermillian are also deceptively quick for big men

You think speed is the problem in that back row

In the big is best backrow , as opposed to our current backrow which has plenty of pace (largely due to Earl) but little or nothing in terms of the tight carrying power that T Willis or a decade younger version of Billy might have provided.

[p/d]

Not sure I'd drop Chessum. Thought he was one of our most combative forwards yesterday. I'd agree the backrow needs some additional muscle adding to it but I'm unconvinced it's BillyV, not with how rapid South Africa played Vs France (damn, that game was awesome). I thought Marler was off the pace when he came on as well.

Genge, George, Sinckler
Martin, Itoje
Chessum, Earl, Lawes
Mitchell, Ford (but Silver Balls will pick Farrell)
Manu, Marchant
May, Smith, Steward

Dan, Marler, Cole, Ribbans, Curry, BillyV, Care, Lawrence.

Seriously, I like the Leicester players but why would you shoe horn Martin in by shifting Chessum to the back row. Better off putting Chessum on the wing if you want them both to start.

Because he's got plenty of past experience playing in the backrow? Doesn't massively matter, swap him back with Martin. The general idea was beef up the pack so that SA are least forces to create the space and run round us as opposed to just through us. They'll still run round us but at least we might be able to make them work for it a bit.

Ok.Different view then. Really not sure how dropping Curry to accommodate Chessum in the back row beefs up the pack.

[Oakboy]

Have there been any fitness announcements? Curry and Smith might well be doubts looking at the state of them.

[Stom]

Have there been any fitness announcements? Curry and Smith might well be doubts looking at the state of them.

I think Smith's a doubt because if he plays we'd get the PSDT anagram all over again.

[Mellsblue]

Not sure why you are so down on Manu, he was terrific with the ball v Fiji (his defence patchy, tis true), and at this point he's still better than Lawrence at 12. Marchant has to stay at 13, he's wasted in defence on the wing.

You've gone a leap too far with Chessum not being thrown to- whatever we think re Shocked Blimeyinthesemi he knows his lineout.

How often?

Just be thankful for the once.

Which was once more than most.

[Mellsblue]

After the way SA targeted Bielle-Biarrey with the high ball yesterday Smith better not play 15.

[Carter1989]

What team are we expecting? It's not what I'd pick, but something like:


Marler, George, Sinckler
Ribbans, Itoje
Lawes, Vunipola, Earl
Mitchell, Farrell
Manu, Lawrence
Daly, Steward, Marchant

Dan, Genge, Cole, Martin, Ludlam, Care, Smith, May.


Combatting SA's physicality might influence things?

Do you not think we might do a 6-1 split?

[Epaminondas Pules]

What team are we expecting? It's not what I'd pick, but something like:


Marler, George, Sinckler
Ribbans, Itoje
Lawes, Vunipola, Earl
Mitchell, Farrell
Manu, Lawrence
Daly, Steward, Marchant

Dan, Genge, Cole, Martin, Ludlam, Care, Smith, May.


Combatting SA's physicality might influence things?

Do you not think we might do a 6-1 split?

I'm not sure playing one light on the bench is the best idea.

[Mellsblue]

What team are we expecting? It's not what I'd pick, but something like:


Marler, George, Sinckler
Ribbans, Itoje
Lawes, Vunipola, Earl
Mitchell, Farrell
Manu, Lawrence
Daly, Steward, Marchant

Dan, Genge, Cole, Martin, Ludlam, Care, Smith, May.


Combatting SA's physicality might influence things?

Do you not think we might do a 6-1 split?

I'm not sure playing one light on the bench is the best idea.

They’ll certainly never expect it.

[jngf]

Seriously, I like the Leicester players but why would you shoe horn Martin in by shifting Chessum to the back row. Better off putting Chessum on the wing if you want them both to start.

Because he's got plenty of past experience playing in the backrow? Doesn't massively matter, swap him back with Martin. The general idea was beef up the pack so that SA are least forces to create the space and run round us as opposed to just through us. They'll still run round us but at least we might be able to make them work for it a bit.

Ok.Different view then. Really not sure how dropping Curry to accommodate Chessum in the back row beefs up the pack.

Without wishing to be accused of dissing Curry, Chessum’s rather beefier surely? That’s not to say I’m an advocate of moving Chessum or any other first and foremost lock into backrow

[FKAS]

Seriously, I like the Leicester players but why would you shoe horn Martin in by shifting Chessum to the back row. Better off putting Chessum on the wing if you want them both to start.

Because he's got plenty of past experience playing in the backrow? Doesn't massively matter, swap him back with Martin. The general idea was beef up the pack so that SA are least forces to create the space and run round us as opposed to just through us. They'll still run round us but at least we might be able to make them work for it a bit.

Ok.Different view then. Really not sure how dropping Curry to accommodate Chessum in the back row beefs up the pack.

I mean it makes space for 6ft6 and 19 stone George Martin to start. That definitely adds beef.

Curry's work rate was very good vs Fiji though his discipline wasn't. It's a bit of a role of the dice but I suspect we'll need to throw some curve balls at South Africa and try to force a slip up if we're going to win.

[p/d]

Because he's got plenty of past experience playing in the backrow? Doesn't massively matter, swap him back with Martin. The general idea was beef up the pack so that SA are least forces to create the space and run round us as opposed to just through us. They'll still run round us but at least we might be able to make them work for it a bit.

Ok.Different view then. Really not sure how dropping Curry to accommodate Chessum in the back row beefs up the pack.

I mean it makes space for 6ft6 and 19 stone George Martin to start. That definitely adds beef.

Curry's work rate was very good vs Fiji though his discipline wasn't. It's a bit of a role of the dice but I suspect we'll need to throw some curve balls at South Africa and try to force a slip up if we're going to win.

I really like Martin and hope he gets another chance To prove himself next week. That said I can only see changes in the back line.

[Mikey Brown]

Get Coles back in at 6.

[jngf]

Get Coles back in at 6.

One could go left field and play Cole there

[FKAS]

Get Coles back in at 6.

One could go left field and play Cole there

Poor Dan is doing his best to keep up with playing tighthead. Let's not try and kill the bloke off.

[p/d]

Get Coles back in at 6.

Indeed. Big unit, used to losing with England. Has all the attributes.
What has happened to him?