England A

[Mikey Brown]

Seeing this topic basically become Borthwick 2.0 2.0 confirms my suspicion that this is just going to be 23 more selections for us to get annoyed at.

What more could we really ask for?

[Oakboy]

Seeing this topic basically become Borthwick 2.0 2.0 confirms my suspicion that this is just going to be 23 more selections for us to get annoyed at.

What more could we really ask for?

Quite. It would be fascinating to read the RFU's declared 'aims and objectives' for its Head Coach (assuming it is a sufficiently professional organisation to have one). In particular, what is laid down about results and playing style (entertainment value?). Then, is there mention of AIs, 6N? Is there leeway in a rebuild phase? Does the 4 year RWC cycle get a mention? What about coaching staff? Etc.

What I am getting at is that we all see our own imaginary targets but would it be reasonable to judge by factual ones from a job-specification? I say that on the back of SB's predecessor being allowed to set and re-set his own spec whenever he felt like it.

A cynic might comment that ticket sale continuity at Twickers is the RFU's only motivational stimulus.

[16th man]

You reckon ticket sales comes before corporate box renewals and the length of the debenture waiting list?

[fivepointer]

Seeing this topic basically become Borthwick 2.0 2.0 confirms my suspicion that this is just going to be 23 more selections for us to get annoyed at.

Somewhat disappointingly so.

Getting the A team back and seeing Portugal here should be a good news story and something to be pleased about.

Lets just enjoy that - at least until the squad is announced.

[Oakboy]

You reckon ticket sales comes before corporate box renewals and the length of the debenture waiting list?

No, I'd lump all that under the same heading.

[FKAS]

Seeing this topic basically become Borthwick 2.0 2.0 confirms my suspicion that this is just going to be 23 more selections for us to get annoyed at.

Somewhat disappointingly so.

Getting the A team back and seeing Portugal here should be a good news story and something to be pleased about.

Lets just enjoy that - at least until the squad is announced.

Generally the wider squad selection has been pretty good. It's the selection of the XV that has caused consternation, mainly at 10.

[Slater582]

The return of the second string seems to have been met with unanimous approval. I can't recall why the RFU disbanded the Saxons in the first place, perhaps the clubs wouldn't accept more clashes with International fixtures. At least this has been resolved.

Uncommonly good sense. I'm confused and alarmed by it.

The press release is a bit contradictory - opens by saying that it's about "game time for players transitioning from the pathway at U20 level to the senior team" and then goes on to say "set to take place on the weekend of round three in the Guinness Six Nations, giving those in the senior men’s wider squad valuable minutes outside of the tournament to maintain fitness throughout the campaign." Wonder whether it's going to be an U23s side or whether it's going to be used to remind Sunny Beachside of Jack Walker's existence.

Excellent. I'm looking forward to typing out at least a dozen potential 23s for this game.

Same! Hopefully it won't be an isolated event - you would've thought Spain would also be keen for this kind of fixture.

Puja

Wouldn't be the first time, in his column Stuart Barnes was reminiscing about Captaining England B against Spain in Madrid the day after the 1992 Calcutta Cup. That B side also had games in Paris & Rome prior to touring New Zealand in the summer of that year. Jack Rowell was their coach.

Doubt it'll just be this solitary fixture, Nik Simon in the Daily Mail reckons the RFU want a prominent role for the team. Alex Lowe in the (29 October) Times even suggests they're considering summer tours again;

The pathway is the responsibility of Conor O’Shea, the RFU’s director of rugby. There is talk of sending an England A team on tour and reviving something similar to the old Churchill Cup format.

Whether non tier one countries would still be interested in participating given the imminent launch of this new Nations Championship. Although the last Saxons tour was to South Africa in 2016 and that was competitive so perhaps that'd be an alternative.

Big thumbs up from me. Good for our young/fringe players and a great chance for Portugal to gain invaluable experience.

A Portuguese journalist on Twitter reckons they're in negotiations for another fixture during this period. Speculation the opponent might be Ireland.

Would be good if they could tour round the Prem stadia whenever there is an England match on. It might help fill depleted club coffers.

Must be expecting a decent crowd given Welford Road is the biggest available stadium, Ashton Gate obviously used by Bristol City. Not everyone can easily make it to Twickenham so nice to have this as an alternative, particularly given there are no Premiership games at that time.

Would that then tie any uncapped players to England, or would it be like an uncapped XV game?

It will do, as it's our "next senior representative team" against another nation's senior representative team. While the eligibility rules have been an utter mess in the past, the IRB have done a reasonable amount to clean them up and this is a fairly straightforward one.

Puja

If a player fails to win a Senior cap in the three year period after this Portugal match (or another potential opponent) then I wouldn't begrudge them later pursuing an International career with a Nation that offers them opportunities. Not going to be missed by England.

It'll be interesting to see how this works while going on at the same time as the 6 nations.

Arguably you'd pick the fringe-but-not-quite-making-the-23 players like Pearson, Atkinson, Murley etc. in an A side if this game happened in isolation, but players who make the full 6 nations squad will presumably miss out even if they're not needed on the weekends.

I'm worried we'll see basically the same squad we have now (minus Lawes, Youngs, May) for the 6 nations, with a bunch of promising 22 year olds playing Portugal, and potentially still be left wondering if guys in the middle like Willis are up to it.

I assumed the excerpt from the RFU press release stating "giving those in the senior men’s wider squad valuable minutes outside of the tournament to maintain fitness throughout the campaign" would suggest some of the "fringe-but-not-quite-making-the-23" will be playing against Portugal.

[Puja]

The return of the second string seems to have been met with unanimous approval. I can't recall why the RFU disbanded the Saxons in the first place, perhaps the clubs wouldn't accept more clashes with International fixtures. At least this has been resolved.

I think it was a combination of clubs not being keen on further clashes and there being precious few options for opposition. The old Churchill Cup was a money pit and all the 6N sides disbanded their A teams aside from Ireland. Added to that was the ludicrous situation of the South Africa tour where England A vs South Africa A was apparently not a match that tied players to England because South Africa A weren't actually the official South Africa second team, as that was called "Emerging Springboks", a side that hadn't pulled on a shirt since 2010, so we then lost Haley (no great loss) and Nick Tompkins (slightly more annoying) to the Celts as a result.

Puja

[FKAS]

What on the fringe players do we need to cap?

1.
2.
3.
4. Coles
5.
6.
7.
8.
9. Warr
10. F Smith
11. Roebuck
12. Kelly
13.
14. Regan Grace
15.

[Banquo]

What on the fringe players do we need to cap?

1.
2.
3.
4. Coles
5.
6.
7.
8.
9. Warr
10. F Smith
11. Roebuck
12. Kelly
13.
14. Regan Grace
15.

coles is already capped. So is Kelly?

[p/d]

What on the fringe players do we need to cap?

1.
2.
3.
4. Coles
5.
6.
7.
8.
9. Warr
10. F Smith
11. Roebuck
12. Kelly
13.
14. Regan Grace
15.

coles is already capped. So is Kelly?

Aye. Kelly got a cap v Canada

[Mikey Brown]

Who is Regan Grace? Some league tosser?

[Puja]

I'd rather have Feyi-Waboso than Grace if we're looking at important wingers, although I'm not especially keen on going a-poaching for players of dubious Englishness.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Who is Regan Grace? Some league tosser?

Welsh league player, yet to play a match of union, currently training in and around Farliegh house as he's rehabbing with a local specialist.

[Mikey Brown]

Oh nice, so he’s injured and not English as well as playing a different sport. A real triple threat. Get him in.

[Captainhaircut]

Cunningham-South and Tuima need locking down. Fin Smith, Roebuck and Dingwall too. Lynagh perhaps?

There will be others too where we don’t know they have second nationalities as well but hopefully RFU are aware.

[FKAS]

What on the fringe players do we need to cap?

1.
2.
3.
4. Coles
5.
6.
7.
8.
9. Warr
10. F Smith
11. Roebuck
12. Kelly
13.
14. Regan Grace
15.

coles is already capped. So is Kelly?

Kelly got capped in the summer of 2021 so the three years are nearly up and Ireland were previously very interested.

Coles is apparently drawing interest from Scotland though I'm not sure how accurate the rumours are as it would be a wait before his three years were up and he'd be eligible to switch.

[FKAS]

What on the fringe players do we need to cap?

1.
2.
3.
4. Coles
5.
6.
7.
8.
9. Warr
10. F Smith
11. Roebuck
12. Kelly
13. Dingwall
14. Regan Grace
15. Lynagh

Regan Grace spent half his teens and most of his career in England. Played union growing up. He's rapid and a finisher plus it would really annoy the Welsh. I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up at Bath in their stellar backline.



I'm not sure Feyi-Waboso is EQ is he?

[Puja]

What on the fringe players do we need to cap?

1.
2.
3.
4. Coles
5.
6.
7.
8.
9. Warr
10. F Smith
11. Roebuck
12. Kelly
13. Dingwall
14. Regan Grace
15. Lynagh

Regan Grace spent half his teens and most of his career in England. Played union growing up. He's rapid and a finisher plus it would really annoy the Welsh. I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up at Bath in their stellar backline.



I'm not sure Feyi-Waboso is EQ is he?

The newspapers seem to think Feyi-Waboso is EQ in some fashion, which presumably means that Exeter have proved it to their satisfaction to claim the EQ credits for him. Mind, this is from the same people who brought us the Patrick Schickerling cock-up, so it's anyone's guess.

Grace looks like he'd be fun to have in a 7s team, but playing league means very little regarding whether he can play union at all.

Cunningham-South and Tuima need locking down. Fin Smith, Roebuck and Dingwall too. Lynagh perhaps?

There will be others too where we don’t know they have second nationalities as well but hopefully RFU are aware.

Tuima is an excellent shout and probably in the A-team on form anyway.

Puja

[FKAS]

If Feyi-Waboso I'd take him in over Grace though I'd still be tempted to throw a cap onto Grace just in case he comes good. He's played union before (Ospreys academy) so it's not like learning a new sport.

Agree on Tuima, he's got some limitations but there's a lot of potential upside and were he to be in there with Coles there should a nice balance there.

[Mellsblue]

Oh nice, so he’s injured and not English as well as playing a different sport. A real triple threat. Get him in.

You are Eddie Jones and I claim my £5.

[p/d]

Oh nice, so he’s injured and not English as well as playing a different sport. A real triple threat. Get him in.

That post has just lifted any gloom that might be hovering!!!

[Banquo]

What on the fringe players do we need to cap?

1.
2.
3.
4. Coles
5.
6.
7.
8.
9. Warr
10. F Smith
11. Roebuck
12. Kelly
13.
14. Regan Grace
15.

coles is already capped. So is Kelly?

Coles is apparently drawing interest from Scotland though I'm not sure how accurate the rumours are as it would be a wait before his three years were up and he'd be eligible to switch.

well quite. Still think he has an intl future with us

[FKAS]

coles is already capped. So is Kelly?

Coles is apparently drawing interest from Scotland though I'm not sure how accurate the rumours are as it would be a wait before his three years were up and he'd be eligible to switch.

well quite. Still think he has an intl future with us

Yeah I think he could very much come good in the near future. With Lawes retiring their couple be an opening at 6 for a hybrid style player and his work rate is good for a big lock which always suits Borthwick's system.

[p/d]

coles is already capped. So is Kelly?

Coles is apparently drawing interest from Scotland though I'm not sure how accurate the rumours are as it would be a wait before his three years were up and he'd be eligible to switch.

well quite. Still think he has an intl future with us

He will replace Chessa