Who are you picking at 12?

[Mellsblue]

looks to have worked on a lot of his weaknesses.

pray tell....

Top line pace and erm…erm…yeah I got nothing.

Not playing for Leicester…

[Mellsblue]

Defie "every time he's started" Because this season alone he's started 7 matches at OC (including his most recent start) and 4 at IC.
https://all.rugby/player/fraser-dingwall

I'm disputing that the shirt number is defining where he actually plays. I have actually watched most of those games. When he plays with Hutchinson, for example, he almost always runs at 12 from 1st phase, yet wears 13- he also often defends at 12 (eg when Freeman was playing, came in off the wing to defend at 13 with Hutchinson to 14 quite often). He's 1st choice centre at Saints and can play equally well in both positions.....and I very rarely say that. That said, a bit biased as I'm mates with his dad

Yep. Discussed numerous times that Hutchinson couldn’t defend the 13 channel if you gave him Inspector Gadget’s arms so other players move around to accommodate in d (and on the team sheet/shirt number).

[Banquo]

looks to have worked on a lot of his weaknesses.

pray tell....

Top line pace and erm…erm…yeah I got nothing.

Perzackly. It’s the only obvious ‘weakness’

[p/d]

Atkinson.

Next

[Danno]

Obviously Anyanwu is the saviour for the next 3.5 weeks until we discard him and spit upon the grave of his international career.

[Danno]

Didn't Sinckler play 12 in the shadow of Battersea Power Station.

When he was aged 12.

That counts, right?

[FKAS]

looks to have worked on a lot of his weaknesses.

pray tell....

Top line pace and erm…erm…yeah I got nothing.

In previous seasons he seemed an obvious target for the oppositions big carriers who'd knock him back and make easy metres. His speed off the line, aggression and technique were all poor to average for someone aspiring to be an international 12. Looks to have been a big change over the summer. He's closing down that 12 channel very effectively and leading the Saints defence well. I think that puts him in a much better position to challenge for international honours.

[Mikey Brown]

Feels like Dingwall is still winning the votes, but sense we're resigning ourselves to some version of Lawrence and Slade. If we can come up with a better way to alternate them than simply 'if Lawrence is at 12 he's running, if Slade is at 12 it's going out the back' that would be great.

[Banquo]

pray tell....

Top line pace and erm…erm…yeah I got nothing.

In previous seasons he seemed an obvious target for the oppositions big carriers who'd knock him back and make easy metres. His speed off the line, aggression and technique were all poor to average for someone aspiring to be an international 12. Looks to have been a big change over the summer. He's closing down that 12 channel very effectively and leading the Saints defence well. I think that puts him in a much better position to challenge for international honours.

Frankly I think you are judging him on a couple of games early last season, especially the Tigers game at Franklins Gardens--- I was at that game, and he was poor, with Nadolo trampling him (not unique tbf). He was in poor form the first couple of months of that season...but it wasn't line speed or aggression that were his issues, more the Saints defensive system and having to compensate for Hutch a lot....if anything he was trying too hard to get off the line, and it didn't go well. He's always been an excellent drift defender, and I'd say he was still adjusting to the switch to 12 in defence early last season. To say he had 'lots of weaknesses' is imo incorrect. He's a very intelligent player, and god knows we need some of that.

[FKAS]

I'd agree he's a very intelligent player and based on this season a leader as well, which is something the backs will need given how many younger options are likely to come in.

I can only judge the games I saw him in and last season I thought he was targetable. There was the red card Vs La Rochelle which was from bad tackle technique later in the season. I just don't get the same impression this season. A bit of bulking in the summer maybe, the new defence coaching working with him. He looks more ready for international rugby now and given Mitchell looks set to be at 9 and I'd have Fin Smith at 10 on form then Dingwall at 12 increasingly makes sense.

You're also right covering for Hutchinson isn't an easy task as he isn't great at coming out the line for the more head on tackles.

[Banquo]

I'd agree he's a very intelligent player and based on this season a leader as well, which is something the backs will need given how many younger options are likely to come in.

I can only judge the games I saw him in and last season I thought he was targetable. There was the red card Vs La Rochelle which was from bad tackle technique later in the season. I just don't get the same impression this season. A bit of bulking in the summer maybe, the new defence coaching working with him. He looks more ready for international rugby now and given Mitchell looks set to be at 9 and I'd have Fin Smith at 10 on form then Dingwall at 12 increasingly makes sense.

You're also right covering for Hutchinson isn't an easy task as he isn't great at coming out the line for the more head on tackles.

TBH you can target almost any midfield player with big guys like Nadolo, and he's not bulked up either. The new system is undoubtedly helping and not leaving him isolated. I wouldn't however have put defence as a weakness last season even, though as I said he was in bad nick early on, possibly because their defence was all over the shop as noted. The originalpoint was questioning the implication that he had many weaknesses last season.....imo his only real weakness was and is top end gas, and that's not insignificant in fairness.

[FKAS]

Clearly we disagree on the defensive capabilities last season. It still looks to me likes he's improved his overall technique in the tackle.

I wouldn't have said his pace was an issue. If he's not added a kilo or two of muscle over the summer then he's playing like has. A definite increase in the aggression which might well be greater confidence in the system.

Either way we both agree he deserves a shot with England.

[Mr Mwenda]

Obviously, the answer is Steward.

I raise you Cockanasiga

[Scrumhead]

Feels like Dingwall is still winning the votes, but sense we're resigning ourselves to some version of Lawrence and Slade. If we can come up with a better way to alternate them than simply 'if Lawrence is at 12 he's running, if Slade is at 12 it's going out the back' that would be great.

100% this

[p/d]

Is there any comment from camp that Slade is back in favour?

[Puja]

Is there any comment from camp that Slade is back in favour?

He wasn't mentioned in the recent interview where Borthwick name dropped a bunch of people that he was looking at, but then neither was Dombrandt and I would imagine he will be back in on current form.

I wouldn't have Slade myself, but there is always the hope that this time he'll bring all that potential out. Like Cokanasiga.

Puja

[Oakboy]

I think so much depends on the rest of the team and the playing style. If the emphasis is on pace, especially back row and halfbacks, I think a Lawrence/Slade combination will flourish - largely because Slade's hands are the best available. Mitchell/Smith at 9/10 suits that, as does Furbank at 15. I think Freeman could own the 13 shirt at some future point but a roving wing role is probably his best first step to establishing himself at international level.

I think Slade has had to cope with some degree of stuttering service outside Youngs/Ford/Farrell/Tuilagi throughout his international stint. It has to be worth trying a fluid pairing with Lawrence in a smoother, pacier back line. Having said that, if Borthwick can't develop the team beyond 'kick and hope', I'd leave Slade out of it. There's no point in selecting him if we aren't to play decent rugby.

[SixAndAHalf]

I'd go with Slade at 12 (Ford at 10 and Lawrence at 13) - I think the Slade / Lawrence combination has the highest ceiling. Looking forward to seeing Ford and Slade unleashed without Farrell and with a proper threat outside.

I would also have Dingwall and one of Ojomoh / Kelly in the squad. The other I would have in the Saxons along with Atkinson. Hartley I would leave playing club rugby for now.

[Mikey Brown]

Isn’t Ford injured?

[Which Tyler]

Isn’t Ford injured?

IIRC, had injections, and hoping to be available, managing the injury (again)

He is, however, horribly out of form

[FKAS]

Isn’t Ford injured?

IIRC, had injections, and hoping to be available, managing the injury (again)

He is, however, horribly out of form

Played better the other week Vs Saints (at least I think it was Saints). If he's having to manage an injury it probably explains why his form is below par.

[p/d]

Smith has to be first choice over Ford.

Anyhoo, back to 12.

[Which Tyler]

Smith has to be first choice over Ford.

Anyhoo, back to 12.

Finn? absolutely

[Oakboy]

Smith has to be first choice over Ford.

Anyhoo, back to 12.

I was going to 'like' your post but the option has disappeared?????

[FKAS]

Smith has to be first choice over Ford.

Anyhoo, back to 12.

Finn? absolutely

Definitely. He's playing with a maturity beyond his years. Really good range to his skills. He seems to be so comfortable varying what he offers depending on what the team needs.