Neither have I really. I just like a FH who has the character to be in charge and that means he should want the maximum number of touches. Obviously there are multiple skills involved in the different types of kicks but I see them all as integral. Apart from the desire for multiple foot-on-ball touches, there is the mental/psychological factor of wanting to take crunch kicks from the tee. I just can't take to a FH who is avoiding the duty rather than wanting/demanding it. Accuracy from practice, nerve when it matters and a will to 'rule the roost' seem to count for a top FH, somehow.
Odd tbh. Not all 10's will be terrific place kickers, or have exceptional length. Its not ducking anything if you have a Leigh Halfpenny to kick long ones; similarly if you have a tip top left footed kicker, like Slade, why wouldnt you use him to the right touchline; or a better drop kicker for restarts etc etc.
Ah, so when Ford is at 10 and Farrell at 12 does Farrell do all the kicking because he is better at it or because he is the stronger character?
I've no issue with Daly and Slade kicking the occasional speciality. It's more about wanting the job, the individual character trait and the dedication that goes with it (as in WT's example B] above).
no idea, you are the one with telepathic instincts and interpretation skills . Actually, when that happened, Ford did most of the kicking in open play, and they varied the drop kick duties depending on what was needed. I suspect their stats off the tee were similar.
Genuinely it should be fck all about 'wanting the job', but about what is the best execution and team option.
Odd tbh. Not all 10's will be terrific place kickers, or have exceptional length. Its not ducking anything if you have a Leigh Halfpenny to kick long ones; similarly if you have a tip top left footed kicker, like Slade, why wouldnt you use him to the right touchline; or a better drop kicker for restarts etc etc.
Ah, so when Ford is at 10 and Farrell at 12 does Farrell do all the kicking because he is better at it or because he is the stronger character?
I've no issue with Daly and Slade kicking the occasional speciality. It's more about wanting the job, the individual character trait and the dedication that goes with it (as in WT's example B] above).
no idea, you are the one with telepathic instincts and interpretation skills . Actually, when that happened, Ford did most of the kicking in open play, and they varied the drop kick duties depending on what was needed. I suspect their stats off the tee were similar.
Genuinely it should be fck all about 'wanting the job', but about what is the best execution and team option.
Spot on. This really is a non-discussion. Give the kicking duties to tour best kicker and that's it. When I first started playing rugby in the dark ages, nearly all the goal kicking was traditionally done by the full back, whether he was any good at it or not.
p/d wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 9:27 am
And unlike Farrell Skinner is an average club player who has no stand out feature to his game for orchestrating play
against any FH who does not demand the kicking tee
no idea why tho
Like, totally. Shoehorning in a 10 just because they can place kick comes in with a whole raft of shit if that player can't pass, run, kick for territory, and other skillz needed in a pivot.
I have no generalised issue with a 10 that doesn't place kick, but it does lead to two areas of team selection being unnecessarily interlinked. If Handre Pollard isn't available for Leicester, then his direct replacement, Jamie Shillcock, does the goalkicking - it's a one-for-one team change. However, if you have a 10 that can't kick for goal and instead rely on an unusually talented kicker at 13 to do it, then you have the problem that, when the 13 is unavailable, you have to make a change elsewhere as well to get a kicker in.
Or worse, the 10 is in terrific form, but the 13 is playing like a drain, but you have to keep selecting the 13 so that you can accomodate the 10.
Isn't there a world of difference between "FH can't kick for toffee, can never be trusted with the kicking tee" and "FH isn't the best place kicker in the team"
With the former, it leads to compromises elsewhere.
With the latter, he may not be first choice place kicker, but might be second or third, so no particular issue on that front if the first choice kicking non-FH is out, beyond losing a first choice player.
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 8:20 pm
Isn't there a world of difference between "FH can't kick for toffee, can never be trusted with the kicking tee" and "FH isn't the best place kicker in the team"
With the former, it leads to compromises elsewhere.
With the latter, he may not be first choice place kicker, but might be second or third, so no particular issue on that front if the first choice kicking non-FH is out, beyond losing a first choice player.
True - I guess the question is whether Skinner falls into the first camp or the second. He did miss one in front of the posts on the weekend, didn't he? And obviously "acceptable percentages" vary depending on what level of team you are (and how reliant you are on a metronomic boot to score your points).
Not really relevant conversation for England, mind - all three of our current fly-halves are very high percentage kickers, so it's unlikely to be an issue any time soon.
Not really relevant conversation for England, mind - all three of our current fly-halves are very high percentage kickers, so it's unlikely to be an issue any time soon.
Puja
Are they this season? Sort of feels like the goal-kicking quality hasn’t been great in general, but no idea if the stats line up with that.
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 8:20 pm
Isn't there a world of difference between "FH can't kick for toffee, can never be trusted with the kicking tee" and "FH isn't the best place kicker in the team"
With the former, it leads to compromises elsewhere.
With the latter, he may not be first choice place kicker, but might be second or third, so no particular issue on that front if the first choice kicking non-FH is out, beyond losing a first choice player.
True - I guess the question is whether Skinner falls into the first camp or the second. He did miss one in front of the posts on the weekend, didn't he? And obviously "acceptable percentages" vary depending on what level of team you are (and how reliant you are on a metronomic boot to score your points).
Not really relevant conversation for England, mind - all three of our current fly-halves are very high percentage kickers, so it's unlikely to be an issue any time soon.
Not really relevant conversation for England, mind - all three of our current fly-halves are very high percentage kickers, so it's unlikely to be an issue any time soon.
Puja
Are they this season? Sort of feels like the goal-kicking quality hasn’t been great in general, but no idea if the stats line up with that.
I know that both Smiths have been in the ridiculously accurate camp, with FSmith's percentages especially in the "does he ever miss?" zone. Actually don't know on Ford, but he's usually up there, so I'd be surprised if he wasn't.
. Actually, when that happened, Ford did most of the kicking in open play, and they varied the drop kick duties depending on what was needed. I suspect their stats off the tee were similar.
