RugbyRebels

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:16 pm Come on Oakboy, it feels like George is becoming a bit of a hobby horse when he's doing nothing wrong and, as highlighted, is doing a hell of a lot right. Dan still has his bloopers to iron out and for good or ill we haven't taken Langdon, Blamire or Moore on tour.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:46 pm

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:16 pm Come on Oakboy, it feels like George is becoming a bit of a hobby horse when he's doing nothing wrong and, as highlighted, is doing a hell of a lot right. Dan still has his bloopers to iron out and for good or ill we haven't taken Langdon, Blamire or Moore on tour.

OK, I accept that to an extent but I hope there is a plan to move on. Remember, George was not 1st choice when LCD was fit so we have gone backwards to an extent. Another factor - and it is a hobby horse - is that I don't want our captain to be replaced after 60 every game. A captain should be there for 80 - a good case for Itoje or Earl (preferably the former).

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 9:19 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:46 pm

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:16 pm Come on Oakboy, it feels like George is becoming a bit of a hobby horse when he's doing nothing wrong and, as highlighted, is doing a hell of a lot right. Dan still has his bloopers to iron out and for good or ill we haven't taken Langdon, Blamire or Moore on tour.

OK, I accept that to an extent but I hope there is a plan to move on. Remember, George was not 1st choice when LCD was fit so we have gone backwards to an extent. Another factor - and it is a hobby horse - is that I don't want our captain to be replaced after 60 every game. A captain should be there for 80 - a good case for Itoje or Earl (preferably the former).

Yeah agreed with all of that, and it would be nice if we could have say, 1 vice captain instead of about 6 while we're at it

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:20 am Also, a note to say how pleased I am to have Amashukeli reffing this game. I regard him as the best ref in the world currently and it's going to be great having quality in charge.

Puja

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:46 pm

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:16 pm Come on Oakboy, it feels like George is becoming a bit of a hobby horse when he's doing nothing wrong and, as highlighted, is doing a hell of a lot right. Dan still has his bloopers to iron out and for good or ill we haven't taken Langdon, Blamire or Moore on tour.

OK, I accept that to an extent but I hope there is a plan to move on. Remember, George was not 1st choice when LCD was fit so we have gone backwards to an extent. Another factor - and it is a hobby horse - is that I don't want our captain to be replaced after 60 every game. A captain should be there for 80 - a good case for Itoje or Earl (preferably the former).

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:56 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:46 pm

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:16 pm Come on Oakboy, it feels like George is becoming a bit of a hobby horse when he's doing nothing wrong and, as highlighted, is doing a hell of a lot right. Dan still has his bloopers to iron out and for good or ill we haven't taken Langdon, Blamire or Moore on tour.

OK, I accept that to an extent but I hope there is a plan to move on. Remember, George was not 1st choice when LCD was fit so we have gone backwards to an extent. Another factor - and it is a hobby horse - is that I don't want our captain to be replaced after 60 every game. A captain should be there for 80 - a good case for Itoje or Earl (preferably the former).

This was a very brief period in time. Partly because of LCD’s injury record but mostly because of George’s consistency in comparison to LCD blowing hot and cold in between injuries.

Re. the captain going off at 60mins, that’s not really unusual. Kolisi and O’Mahony are regularly subbed at a similar point and the attritional nature of playing in the front row means that any captain who is a hooker or prop is always likely to come off relatively early. Genge has been mooted as a captaincy option but he’d be in the same situation. Moreover, if George was doing the full 80 people would be complaining about him not coming off.

Dan is not ready to start. Langdon really needs to be looked at more closely but at this moment in time George is not the problem you are making him out to be.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:26 am

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:56 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:46 pm

OK, I accept that to an extent but I hope there is a plan to move on. Remember, George was not 1st choice when LCD was fit so we have gone backwards to an extent. Another factor - and it is a hobby horse - is that I don't want our captain to be replaced after 60 every game. A captain should be there for 80 - a good case for Itoje or Earl (preferably the former).

This was a very brief period in time. Partly because of LCD’s injury record but mostly because of George’s consistency in comparison to LCD blowing hot and cold in between injuries.

Re. the captain going off at 60mins, that’s not really unusual. Kolisi and O’Mahony are regularly subbed at a similar point and the attritional nature of playing in the front row means that any captain who is a hooker or prop is always likely to come off relatively early. Genge has been mooted as a captaincy option but he’d be in the same situation. Moreover, if George was doing the full 80 people would be complaining about him not coming off.

Dan is not ready to start. Langdon really needs to be looked at more closely but at this moment in time George is not the problem you are making him out to be.

I accept that George might be our best hooker currently. The question remains, 'How long will he remain so and what are we doing to move on?' IMO, that is a valid point AT this stage in the 4 year RWC cycle. Or, are you suggesting he will stil be at 2 in 2027?

I would never choose a captain from the front row in the current game environment.

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:53 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:26 am

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:56 am

This was a very brief period in time. Partly because of LCD’s injury record but mostly because of George’s consistency in comparison to LCD blowing hot and cold in between injuries.

Re. the captain going off at 60mins, that’s not really unusual. Kolisi and O’Mahony are regularly subbed at a similar point and the attritional nature of playing in the front row means that any captain who is a hooker or prop is always likely to come off relatively early. Genge has been mooted as a captaincy option but he’d be in the same situation. Moreover, if George was doing the full 80 people would be complaining about him not coming off.

Dan is not ready to start. Langdon really needs to be looked at more closely but at this moment in time George is not the problem you are making him out to be.

I accept that George might be our best hooker currently. The question remains, 'How long will he remain so and what are we doing to move on?' IMO, that is a valid point AT this stage in the 4 year RWC cycle. Or, are you suggesting he will stil be at 2 in 2027?

I would never choose a captain from the front row in the current game environment.

We are giving Dan time off the bench in big games and telling him, "There is the standard; if you want his shirt, you need to improve so you're demanding it at both club and country." I'd fsr rather we make Dan work for it than gift it to him.

Puja

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:16 pm Come on Oakboy, it feels like George is becoming a bit of a hobby horse when he's doing nothing wrong and, as highlighted, is doing a hell of a lot right. Dan still has his bloopers to iron out and for good or ill we haven't taken Langdon, Blamire or Moore on tour.

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:49 am

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:16 pm Come on Oakboy, it feels like George is becoming a bit of a hobby horse when he's doing nothing wrong and, as highlighted, is doing a hell of a lot right. Dan still has his bloopers to iron out and for good or ill we haven't taken Langdon, Blamire or Moore on tour.

Yep highlights reel do not an international team make. We are often so adrift on basics its actually good to have someone who does them well- your good at bits and pieces players enable the big plays, and its what coaches (should) look for first.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 12:48 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:49 am

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:16 pm Come on Oakboy, it feels like George is becoming a bit of a hobby horse when he's doing nothing wrong and, as highlighted, is doing a hell of a lot right. Dan still has his bloopers to iron out and for good or ill we haven't taken Langdon, Blamire or Moore on tour.

Yep highlights reel do not an international team make. We are often so adrift on basics its actually good to have someone who does them well- your good at bits and pieces players enable the big plays, and its what coaches (should) look for first.

It's all about a balance, though, isn't it? Fifteen 'Jamie George' types would not make much of a team either. It would be safe and tidy if it ever got the ball in the first place, I suppose.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 12:48 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:49 am

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:16 pm Come on Oakboy, it feels like George is becoming a bit of a hobby horse when he's doing nothing wrong and, as highlighted, is doing a hell of a lot right. Dan still has his bloopers to iron out and for good or ill we haven't taken Langdon, Blamire or Moore on tour.

Yep highlights reel do not an international team make. We are often so adrift on basics its actually good to have someone who does them well- your good at bits and pieces players enable the big plays, and its what coaches (should) look for first.

It's all about a balance, though, isn't it? Fifteen 'Jamie George' types would not make much of a team either. It would be safe and tidy if it ever got the ball in the first place, I suppose.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 12:22 pm Langdon hasn’t ‘come from nowhere’. He’s been a very good hooker for about 5yrs at Sale, Worcester and now Saints. The main difference we’re seeing now is the benefit of him being the clear first choice in a good side.

IMO, he offers a very good balance of good set-piece work and dynamism. Essentially a hybrid of George and Dan.

Until Dan is able to sort out the nuts and bolts of his game, he is best suited to being an impact sub. Personally, I’d be looking at Langdon (or maybe Blake) replacing George with Dan staying in the 16 shirt.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 2:51 pm

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 12:22 pm Langdon hasn’t ‘come from nowhere’. He’s been a very good hooker for about 5yrs at Sale, Worcester and now Saints. The main difference we’re seeing now is the benefit of him being the clear first choice in a good side.

IMO, he offers a very good balance of good set-piece work and dynamism. Essentially a hybrid of George and Dan.

Until Dan is able to sort out the nuts and bolts of his game, he is best suited to being an impact sub. Personally, I’d be looking at Langdon (or maybe Blake) replacing George with Dan staying in the 16 shirt.

I didn’t think this was his first pro season of rugby! Rather, that he hasn’t been in contention for Borthwick’s England, which is the context of the debate, until this season.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:16 am Which selections outside of Perofeta ahead of Beauden Barret? I feel like that one had been coming for a while anyway based on Blues performances.

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:52 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:16 am Which selections outside of Perofeta ahead of Beauden Barret? I feel like that one had been coming for a while anyway based on Blues performances.

Blackadder at 6 was widely expected, with Jacobson not making the sqaud. Finau is the form choice, unfortunately.

Puja