RugbyRebels

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:58 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 7:20 pm Worth seeing how many they actually award but they’ve paid handsomely for the central(ish) contracts so to only use 60% wastes an awful lot of money. I’m also not sure about needing that much wiggle room to change - just like RWC squads, HC’s will have more than 15 squad certainties.
As for scarcity, then 25 is scarce enough surely.

Every contract is going have to be a player who is a guarantee for the next 2-3 season though, isn't it? Are there 25 who we can guarantee will be fixtures in 3 years' time? Apart from anything else, Dan Cole and Will Stuart are currently squad certainties, but I'm hoping they won't be in a couple of years. And wouldn't it make sense to hold back contracts and leave room for players who will break through and may require a contract going forwards - who would've given a central contract to Feyi-Waboso in 2023, for example? It'd be sensible to hold some back in case we need to keep that kind of bolter out of the clutches of the Top 14, or in case JWillis makes noises about wanting to come back, etc.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:58 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 7:20 pm Worth seeing how many they actually award but they’ve paid handsomely for the central(ish) contracts so to only use 60% wastes an awful lot of money. I’m also not sure about needing that much wiggle room to change - just like RWC squads, HC’s will have more than 15 squad certainties.
As for scarcity, then 25 is scarce enough surely.

Every contract is going have to be a player who is a guarantee for the next 2-3 season though, isn't it? Are there 25 who we can guarantee will be fixtures in 3 years' time? Apart from anything else, Dan Cole and Will Stuart are currently squad certainties, but I'm hoping they won't be in a couple of years. And wouldn't it make sense to hold back contracts and leave room for players who will break through and may require a contract going forwards - who would've given a central contract to Feyi-Waboso in 2023, for example? It'd be sensible to hold some back in case we need to keep that kind of bolter out of the clutches of the Top 14, or in case JWillis makes noises about wanting to come back, etc.

Puja

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:08 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:58 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 7:20 pm Worth seeing how many they actually award but they’ve paid handsomely for the central(ish) contracts so to only use 60% wastes an awful lot of money. I’m also not sure about needing that much wiggle room to change - just like RWC squads, HC’s will have more than 15 squad certainties.
As for scarcity, then 25 is scarce enough surely.

Every contract is going have to be a player who is a guarantee for the next 2-3 season though, isn't it? Are there 25 who we can guarantee will be fixtures in 3 years' time? Apart from anything else, Dan Cole and Will Stuart are currently squad certainties, but I'm hoping they won't be in a couple of years. And wouldn't it make sense to hold back contracts and leave room for players who will break through and may require a contract going forwards - who would've given a central contract to Feyi-Waboso in 2023, for example? It'd be sensible to hold some back in case we need to keep that kind of bolter out of the clutches of the Top 14, or in case JWillis makes noises about wanting to come back, etc.

Puja

10 bolters would amaze me. Do we want to use central contracts to tempt people back from France? The primary motive is to have your best players under greater control and if they happen to be one of your best 25 then happy days.

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2024 1:07 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:08 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:58 pm

Every contract is going have to be a player who is a guarantee for the next 2-3 season though, isn't it? Are there 25 who we can guarantee will be fixtures in 3 years' time? Apart from anything else, Dan Cole and Will Stuart are currently squad certainties, but I'm hoping they won't be in a couple of years. And wouldn't it make sense to hold back contracts and leave room for players who will break through and may require a contract going forwards - who would've given a central contract to Feyi-Waboso in 2023, for example? It'd be sensible to hold some back in case we need to keep that kind of bolter out of the clutches of the Top 14, or in case JWillis makes noises about wanting to come back, etc.

Puja

10 bolters would amaze me. Do we want to use central contracts to tempt people back from France? The primary motive is to have your best players under greater control and if they happen to be one of your best 25 then happy days.

I mean, we're speculating on 10, but I wouldn't rule out 3-4 per year across the next 3 years.

I would saying luring people back from France is one of the major reasons for having them. That's why Itoje and George were given them, wasn't it? Mind, I think we'll regreat George, given he's only got a season left.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:57 am even if there's having to be some interesting gerrymandering to give Bristol

jimKRFC wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2024 11:40 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:57 am even if there's having to be some interesting gerrymandering to give Bristol

Not sure I'd agree there. Bristol have got Somerset which should include the Mendip area. However, the Mendip area has been carved out for Bath.

Strangely enough Mendip includes Millfield. So Bristol have gained area but no "rugby schools" and Bath have retained the only other school Bristol might get and a load of L.Irishs old ones.

As for Bath's DPP - have heard (from someone coaching in both) it's a bit of a mess and Bristol have far more invested in there's in terms of coaching and supportm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2024 6:24 am Hence me saying it’s ‘worth seeing how many they actually award’.

It’s a reason but the primary reason is to have greater control over the players and you’re wasting that (expensive) primary reason with every contract you don’t hand out. It’s as much about surety of income as a top up of club wages. Itoje and George will expect to play every England match this season and, if they do, will earn less on a RFU contract. I’d be annoyed if Slightlyfewer Backroomstaff used a contract to help lure back Willis if he wouldn’t have awarded Willis one if he were already in the Prem.

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2024 11:59 am
JWillis is probably the only player I'd do that for right now though. Arundell maybe, but I'm not convinced he's worth a guaranteed contract just yet, especially since we've got a few wingers already.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2024 11:59 am

jimKRFC wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2024 11:40 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:57 am even if there's having to be some interesting gerrymandering to give Bristol

Not sure I'd agree there. Bristol have got Somerset which should include the Mendip area. However, the Mendip area has been carved out for Bath.

Strangely enough Mendip includes Millfield. So Bristol have gained area but no "rugby schools" and Bath have retained the only other school Bristol might get and a load of L.Irishs old ones.

As for Bath's DPP - have heard (from someone coaching in both) it's a bit of a mess and Bristol have far more invested in there's in terms of coaching and supportm

Interesting knowledge; thanks. Seems bizarre that Bristol have been given an area that circles almost right around Bath and then excluded from the one place where it would legitimately be useful for them to be. With any other club, I'd say they got shafted to keep Bruce Craig happy, but it's not like Lansdown's without influence in the game?

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2024 6:24 am Hence me saying it’s ‘worth seeing how many they actually award’.

It’s a reason but the primary reason is to have greater control over the players and you’re wasting that (expensive) primary reason with every contract you don’t hand out. It’s as much about surety of income as a top up of club wages. Itoje and George will expect to play every England match this season and, if they do, will earn less on a RFU contract. I’d be annoyed if Slightlyfewer Backroomstaff used a contract to help lure back Willis if he wouldn’t have awarded Willis one if he were already in the Prem.

Fair point (and excellent naming). I wouldn't want them used to bring an average player back from France/keep them away from going to France, but an exceptional talent like JWillis, it feels like an easy tool - instead of saying, "Come back and you can compete and **maybe** get more money from EPS," you can say "Take a 2 year contract with Leicester and get a guaranteed additional X of England money - how does that compare to what Toulon are offering you to stay?"

JWillis is probably the only player I'd do that for right now though. Arundell maybe, but I'm not convinced he's worth a guaranteed contract just yet, especially since we've got a few wingers already.

Puja