Obesity

[morepork]

Boot camp doesn't work.


I am about to cook a whole snapper, stuffed with fennel bulb and seasoned with sea salt, olive oil, and the merest of touches of saffron. I will accompany this with bok choy nailed in boiling water in the wok with a healthy dash of salt, some hondashi, ginger, and big fresh cloves of smelly garlic. Following this I will neck as much red wine as my wife will let me. I will sleep, then arise early to watch the ABs nail the pineapple army. Total cost of meal: under $15 for two. I am one healthy mofo.

[cashead]

Boot camp doesn't work.


I am about to cook a whole snapper, stuffed with fennel bulb and seasoned with sea salt, olive oil, and the merest of touches of saffron. I will accompany this with bok choy nailed in boiling water in the wok with a healthy dash of salt, some hondashi, ginger, and big fresh cloves of smelly garlic. Following this I will neck as much red wine as my wife will let me. I will sleep, then arise early to watch the ABs nail the pineapple army. Total cost of meal: under $15 for two. I am one healthy mofo.

Now multiply that number to 8, 9, 10 mouths to feed, with both parents having to work a couple of jobs to make ends meet - assuming they have one - not to mention having to pay an extortionately high rent. Hell, maybe your entire family is living on an income of less than $20,000 per annum. Let's see how easy it is to be so smug about it.

[morepork]

Boot camp doesn't work.


I am about to cook a whole snapper, stuffed with fennel bulb and seasoned with sea salt, olive oil, and the merest of touches of saffron. I will accompany this with bok choy nailed in boiling water in the wok with a healthy dash of salt, some hondashi, ginger, and big fresh cloves of smelly garlic. Following this I will neck as much red wine as my wife will let me. I will sleep, then arise early to watch the ABs nail the pineapple army. Total cost of meal: under $15 for two. I am one healthy mofo.

Now multiply that number to 8, 9, 10 mouths to feed, with both parents having to work a couple of jobs to make ends meet - assuming they have one - not to mention having to pay an extortionately high rent. Hell, maybe your entire family is living on an income of less than $20,000 per annum. Let's see how easy it is to be so smug about it.

I'm not being smug bitch. I totally agree. Hence the "boot camp doesn't work" statement. I have wheels which got me the fish. I also have no kids, which helps purchasing the fish. Proper food is harder to incorporate into the daily routine than shyte food because shyte food dominates the scene. I grew up on shyte food because of these factors and I have spent plenty of nights as a kid in a sleeping bag on family friend's lounge floors. I spit on the pull your socks up hands-off school of thought.

[cashead]

I spit on the pull your socks up hands-off school of thought.

I think the biggest problem with the "bootstraps" crowd is that
1. It indicates a far too simplistic approach to the issue, when it's more often than not societal and generational. You get an alienated community and the kids there growing up surrounded by a bunch deemed to be a bunch of fuck-ups by everyone, they're going to think that's normal, and they're going to go "yeah? Fine, I'll be the biggest fuck-up you ever saw!"
2. It ignores wider, institutionalised problems, or outright pretends they don't exist. There's a reason why Maori and Pasifika are over-represented in poverty and crime stats, after all. Does that mean everyone brown is a criminal? Like fuck it does.
3. It usually indicates, to some degree, that the just-world fallacy is still in effect.

One thing that working with poverty-stricken kids teaches you is how on the money Herman Melville was when he wrote "Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well- warmed, and well-fed."

[Mellsblue]

I've had four hours sleep so excuse me if I've missed the point but I don't get that being poor equals an excuse to be unhealthy. My father's grandparents were relatively poor - admin worker and dock labourer living in a council house - and they were two of the fittest people I knew, even in their 80's. Grandma even had a hip injury that meant she couldn't run or walk too far but she kept active by walking as much as she could and tending to the garden. Grandad was obviously active due to his job but still cycled to work come rain or shine, even once they'd saved enough to buy a car.
The quality and quantity of food available these days is unbelievable compared to decades a go and isn't any more expensive. Walk in to any supermarket and you will find a range of fruit and veg a couple generations previous could only dream of, and they are available all year round. This allied with the Internet for info on healthy eating etc means nobody has an excuse to be fat or to have made their kids fat.
The big difference is the preponderance of takeaway food outlets and freezable junk food, and the laziness of people not wanting to cook. You don't have to put Morepork's dinner on the table every night to be healthy.
It's no coincidence that the UK, can't speak for anywhere else, has become fatter since the proliferation of cars, computers and junk food.

[Digby]

It'd likely be a big mistake to think fast food, takeaways and what not are behind all obesity. Stuart Barnes will happily tell you he wouldn't touch the stuff. An over rich diet with more calories than we need, allied to the calories in wine and beer puts many really quite wealthy consumers way up on the obesity charts, and likely many of them eating a decent range of fruit and veg.

[Mellsblue]

It'd likely be a big mistake to think fast food, takeaways and what not are behind all obesity. Stuart Barnes will happily tell you he wouldn't touch the stuff. An over rich diet with more calories than we need, allied to the calories in wine and beer puts many really quite wealthy consumers way up on the obesity charts, and likely many of them eating a decent range of fruit and veg.

Agreed, but fat, well off people is not really the direction of discussion on this thread and certainly isn't the demographic I was discussing. It is an issue, though. Having said that, I'm sure Barnes pays enough tax on his cases of Bordeaux to cover any expenditure he will cause the NHS.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Boot camp doesn't work.


I am about to cook a whole snapper, stuffed with fennel bulb and seasoned with sea salt, olive oil, and the merest of touches of saffron. I will accompany this with bok choy nailed in boiling water in the wok with a healthy dash of salt, some hondashi, ginger, and big fresh cloves of smelly garlic. Following this I will neck as much red wine as my wife will let me. I will sleep, then arise early to watch the ABs nail the pineapple army. Total cost of meal: under $15 for two. I am one healthy mofo.

Now multiply that number to 8, 9, 10 mouths to feed, with both parents having to work a couple of jobs to make ends meet - assuming they have one - not to mention having to pay an extortionately high rent. Hell, maybe your entire family is living on an income of less than $20,000 per annum. Let's see how easy it is to be so smug about it.

If you're broke, why on earth would you have 10 mouths to feed and why would that be anyone else's fault or responsibility than your own?

[Sandydragon]

Boot camp doesn't work.


I am about to cook a whole snapper, stuffed with fennel bulb and seasoned with sea salt, olive oil, and the merest of touches of saffron. I will accompany this with bok choy nailed in boiling water in the wok with a healthy dash of salt, some hondashi, ginger, and big fresh cloves of smelly garlic. Following this I will neck as much red wine as my wife will let me. I will sleep, then arise early to watch the ABs nail the pineapple army. Total cost of meal: under $15 for two. I am one healthy mofo.

Now multiply that number to 8, 9, 10 mouths to feed, with both parents having to work a couple of jobs to make ends meet - assuming they have one - not to mention having to pay an extortionately high rent. Hell, maybe your entire family is living on an income of less than $20,000 per annum. Let's see how easy it is to be so smug about it.

If you're broke, why on earth would you have 10 mouths to feed and why would that be anyone else's fault or responsibility than your own?

Been on many council estates recently. Maybe 10 is an exaggeration but watching single mums wander out of Heron Foods with a gaggle of 4,5 or 6 kids isn't uncommon around here.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

One other thing. I'm rapidly coming to the view that snacking is a (if not the) major problem. Current advice is that you should be giving your baby a snack between main meals because their stomachs aren't big enough. The snacks suggested are things like breadsticks (which are empty carbs) and dried fruit (near pure sugar). This strikes me as madness. It's not like I starve Master Wrayburn - if he's hungry between meals then we do feed him something - but suggesting that you should do it every day twice a day without fail is storing up trouble and creating bad habits.

[Sandydragon]

One other thing. I'm rapidly coming to the view that snacking is a (if not the) major problem. Current advice is that you should be giving your baby a snack between main meals because their stomachs aren't big enough. The snacks suggested are things like breadsticks (which are empty carbs) and dried fruit (near pure sugar). This strikes me as madness. It's not like I starve Master Wrayburn - if he's hungry between meals then we do feed him something - but suggesting that you should do it every day twice a day without fail is storing up trouble and creating bad habits.

I'd agree. I'd keep snacks for times of genuine hunger, not make them a routine.

[Tre]

Portion control is important. People give their kids the same sized meal as they would eat

[Which Tyler]

Portion control is important. People give their kids the same sized meal as they would eat

Portion size is definitely my weakness. I KNOW I need less since quitting squash, I just can't convince my body yet.

[Sandydragon]

Portion control is important. People give their kids the same sized meal as they would eat

Portion size is definitely my weakness. I KNOW I need less since quitting squash, I just can't convince my body yet.

A change in lifestyle will do that. I put on weight when I moved from one type of job to another that was more desk bound.

Having a new baby in the family is bad for the waist line as well!

[Mikey Brown]

Some interesting stuff in here, chaps. It's very easy to write this from a position of comfort, with no kids and with the fortune to enjoy cooking, but I just can't imagine how (even for the poor, lazy or stupid) the parental instinct isn't strong enough to make sure you learn all this stuff and build your child right. Does anybody have a fat child and really not think there is any way around it? It's so sad.

[Sandydragon]

Some interesting stuff in here, chaps. It's very easy to write this from a position of comfort, with no kids and with the fortune to enjoy cooking, but I just can't imagine how (even for the poor, lazy or stupid) the parental instinct isn't strong enough to make sure you learn all this stuff and build your child right. Does anybody have a fat child and really not think there is any way around it? It's so sad.

I don't doubt for o e moment that when my boy gets older he will want fast food and we will battle to persuade him otherwise. But that is part of being a parent, the easy route isn't always the correct one.

I'll even agree that the odd bit of fast food does little harm. The issue in my view is when people don't cook properly for the majority of the time or the odd fast food meal becomes every night. On another note, it amazes me how people can afford to eat takeaways so frequently.

[morepork]

What sort of access can you get to proper food in rough/poor areas over there? Here it's damn near impossible. From what I've seen in parts of NZ over the last 15 years, access is getting pretty grim there too.

[Mellsblue]

What sort of access can you get to proper food in rough/poor areas over there? Here it's damn near impossible. From what I've seen in parts of NZ over the last 15 years, access is getting pretty grim there too.

I used to live in Nottingham which has close to the largest income disparity in the country, and regardless of which supermarket you go to the basic provision is the same in every one. Access to meat, veg and fruit is basically the same in every supermarket in the country. The ones in the wealthier areas will carry more 'middle class' foods and those in poorer areas will carry more cheap junk but the provision of staples will be the same. To cut to the chase, if you want to buy fresh meat, veg and fruit you can find that at any and every supermarket in the country.

[cashead]

Boot camp doesn't work.


I am about to cook a whole snapper, stuffed with fennel bulb and seasoned with sea salt, olive oil, and the merest of touches of saffron. I will accompany this with bok choy nailed in boiling water in the wok with a healthy dash of salt, some hondashi, ginger, and big fresh cloves of smelly garlic. Following this I will neck as much red wine as my wife will let me. I will sleep, then arise early to watch the ABs nail the pineapple army. Total cost of meal: under $15 for two. I am one healthy mofo.

Now multiply that number to 8, 9, 10 mouths to feed, with both parents having to work a couple of jobs to make ends meet - assuming they have one - not to mention having to pay an extortionately high rent. Hell, maybe your entire family is living on an income of less than $20,000 per annum. Let's see how easy it is to be so smug about it.

If you're broke, why on earth would you have 10 mouths to feed and why would that be anyone else's fault or responsibility than your own?

Multiple generations and religious beliefs. I've taught kids with 8 siblings while I was on practicum, and if you can only find minimum wage jobs, it's a struggle just keeping a roof over your head down here.

[Sandydragon]

What sort of access can you get to proper food in rough/poor areas over there? Here it's damn near impossible. From what I've seen in parts of NZ over the last 15 years, access is getting pretty grim there too.

Aldi and Lidl sell fruit and veg. It's possible t get a weeks shopping in either for a reasonable price.

Many local green grocers and butchers are good value for money too.

[morepork]

Now multiply that number to 8, 9, 10 mouths to feed, with both parents having to work a couple of jobs to make ends meet - assuming they have one - not to mention having to pay an extortionately high rent. Hell, maybe your entire family is living on an income of less than $20,000 per annum. Let's see how easy it is to be so smug about it.

If you're broke, why on earth would you have 10 mouths to feed and why would that be anyone else's fault or responsibility than your own?

Multiple generations and religious beliefs. I've taught kids with 8 siblings while I was on practicum, and if you can only find minimum wage jobs, it's a struggle just keeping a roof over your head down here.

Extended family units too boss. I think there is a storm coming with respect to the cost of accommodation down there. Shafted, is a word that comes to mind.

[Lizard]

On the other hand, isn't it utterly remarkable that we have a created a society where obesity is a disease of poverty?

For about 99.5% of the history of civilisation, the poor have universally also been the hungry; whereas a fat man has been the caricature of the wealthy. (It's still true in much of the developing world.). In the last 30 or 40 years, we have not only solved that problem, but hugely overshot. Can you imagine a Victorian government wringing its hands over the blubbery excesses of the workhouse? Or a Caeser pontificating on the plumpness of the plebeians?

Yet here we are now seriously discussing whether we need the full force of law to prevent the poor from over indulging in the abundance of affordable, energy-rich food we have created.

Look at the political slogans of even our grandparents' time, "a chicken in every pot" or "peace, land and bread" for our pinko brethren. Now it's "no more KFC" and "bread in moderation as long as it's whole grain with no butter."

I'm not saying it isn't a problem, but haven't we come a long way from "let them eat cake?"

[BBD]

Obese poor people are less likely to take to the streets and overthrow the government than hungry people I'd suggest

Bread and circuses = takeaways & flatscreens

[Sandydragon]

Obese poor people are less likely to take to the streets and overthrow the government than hungry people I'd suggest

Bread and circuses = takeaways & flatscreens

On their crap diet they probably haven't got the energy, or at least not after the first 15 minutes when the initial sugar rush has worn off.

[Sandydragon]

On the other hand, isn't it utterly remarkable that we have a created a society where obesity is a disease of poverty?

For about 99.5% of the history of civilisation, the poor have universally also been the hungry; whereas a fat man has been the caricature of the wealthy. (It's still true in much of the developing world.). In the last 30 or 40 years, we have not only solved that problem, but hugely overshot. Can you imagine a Victorian government wringing its hands over the blubbery excesses of the workhouse? Or a Caeser pontificating on the plumpness of the plebeians?

Yet here we are now seriously discussing whether we need the full force of law to prevent the poor from over indulging in the abundance of affordable, energy-rich food we have created.

Look at the political slogans of even our grandparents' time, "a chicken in every pot" or "peace, land and bread" for our pinko brethren. Now it's "no more KFC" and "bread in moderation as long as it's whole grain with no butter."

I'm not saying it isn't a problem, but haven't we come a long way from "let them eat cake?"

Indeed. Our problem is now too much food (simply put) rather than not enough. We now measure poverty by a definition that would have been laughed at just a few generations ago. Just goes to show I suppose that even with progress, there are always new problems.