Are the All Blacks too good for Rugby?

[Len]

Australia need to recruit some more league talent. They'd have the most lethal backline in the world if they had access to all those boys. Imagine Inglis and Hayne and the like.

Their pack would still be shithouse though. Their locks are hilariously bung.

[rowan]

They should just combine the two codes. If they did that Australia and New Zealand would be on pretty equal footing, remembering that the rugby codes are really only major on the East Coast of Aussie. Both union & league have made a bid to establish themselves in other states, but with limited success, it would appear.

[zer0]

There's no chance of combining the codes. League is far too large in Australia and far too small out of it. Besides, I believe that the AFL is slowly grinding them both down, so it's probably a moot point.

[Lizard]

They should just combine the two codes. If they did that Australia and New Zealand would be on pretty equal footing, remembering that the rugby codes are really only major on the East Coast of Aussie. Both union & league have made a bid to establish themselves in other states, but with limited success, it would appear.

Why would we want to invite a bunch of zero-class criminals into our code?

[rowan]

" League is far too large in Australia and far too small out of it"

Precisely why Australia will continue to dominate the XIII man code & NZ will generally dominate in the XV man code.

[Lizard]

Just looking at the Bledisloe Cup, although the Aussies are lamenting 14 years without success, that's actually pretty normal. The current crop of players and fans were perhaps spoiled by the unprecedented run from 1998-2002. Before then, Aussie had only once successfully defended the Bledisloe, winning it in a one-off test 1979 and taking a 3 test series 2-1 in 1980. Apart from those two reigns, Aussie has won the big Cup only 5 times since 1931 and on each occasion NZ has won it back at the very next opportunity.

[rowan]

Rugby Union is a minor sport in Australia. They stole a march on the Kiwis during the shamateur era and managed to win two World Cups while the rest of the world was trying to catch up. But that's it, before and since, Australia cannot foot it with New Zealand, where rugby union is the national game.

[cashead]

Quick maths - the average (mean) winning margin for the All Blacks in the Rugby Champs so far this year has been 29 points (rounded down from 29.25).
Their average winning margin for their last 5 test matches (i.e. Rugby Champs plus test 3 against Wales) becomes 31.4.
If we look at the entirety of 2016, it's still at around 27 (the first two tests, where the margin was 18 and 14 respectively drags it down a bit).

So that's the gap that the other teams need to close, basically.

[scuzzaman]

Ship two less tries and score two more and they have parity?

Easy to say.

Should they focus on defence first?

But with regard to the All Black's current ascendancy, I think it fair to say that: "This too shall pass"

Of more interest to me is maintaining the long term record of being consistently in the top 3. If once we slip out of that position for any length of time, it will become devilishly difficult to regain it.

[Spy]

Some remarkable stattage here: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=11721339

Points Differential
Not surprisingly, the All Blacks lead the Rugby Championship table for points differential with +136. But perhaps more incredible, is the fact that none of the other three teams have a positive figure. South Africa sit on -21, Australia on -40 and Argentina on -75, meaning unless South Africa beat the All Blacks by 22 or more, or Australia trump the Pumas by 40+, only one team will finish the Rugby Championship with a positive points differential.

29 plays 26
The All Blacks have not only out-scored their individual opponents, they've also outscored everyone combined. They've notched up a total of 29 tries in the Rugby Championship with the three other teams only combining for 26.

Crotty, Smith, and Savea
It's a three way tie for the top try scorer in 2016, each one of them an All Black. However, what's more interesting is the fact that Crotty, Smith, and Savea have more tries between them (12) than any of the other individual teams. Australia and Argentina have scored nine, while the Springboks have scored eight.

41-14
The All Blacks have played five games so far in the Rugby Championship. Their average points per game is 41, meanwhile their points against is just 14. Only Argentina has scored more than 14.

[Spiffy]

Some remarkable stattage here: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=11721339

Points Differential
Not surprisingly, the All Blacks lead the Rugby Championship table for points differential with +136. But perhaps more incredible, is the fact that none of the other three teams have a positive figure. South Africa sit on -21, Australia on -40 and Argentina on -75, meaning unless South Africa beat the All Blacks by 22 or more, or Australia trump the Pumas by 40+, only one team will finish the Rugby Championship with a positive points differential.

29 plays 26
The All Blacks have not only out-scored their individual opponents, they've also outscored everyone combined. They've notched up a total of 29 tries in the Rugby Championship with the three other teams only combining for 26.

Crotty, Smith, and Savea
It's a three way tie for the top try scorer in 2016, each one of them an All Black. However, what's more interesting is the fact that Crotty, Smith, and Savea have more tries between them (12) than any of the other individual teams. Australia and Argentina have scored nine, while the Springboks have scored eight.

41-14
The All Blacks have played five games so far in the Rugby Championship. Their average points per game is 41, meanwhile their points against is just 14. Only Argentina has scored more than 14.

Amazing stats. The ABs are comfortably out on their own way ahead of any other team at the moment. For me the interesting thing is that the current crop contains very few players who would be rated individually as NZ all-time greats, but their performance as an integrated team playing 15 man rugby is fantastic. The whole is definitely much more than the sum of the parts.

[Lizard]

Amazing stats. The ABs are comfortably out on their own way ahead of any other team at the moment. For me the interesting thing is that the current crop contains very few players who would be rated individually as NZ all-time greats, but their performance as an integrated team playing 15 man rugby is fantastic. The whole is definitely much more than the sum of the parts.

Really?

I would rate Dane Coles as our best hooker of the professional era. If he carries on for a few years then he could rival Fitzy, although his great captaincy will set him apart.

We are still judging loose forwards in the shadow of the GOAT which may be unfair but Kieran Read has brought a range of skills to no. 8 that we haven't seen since Brooke but with an added edge of seriousness, in my view.

Read's fellow World Rugby Player of the Year Brodie Retallick will be remembered for a long time, too.

Aaron Smith is the best All Black half back I have ever seen (30+ years).

At 10, again we have a long shadow to contend with but Barrett is a revelation. He hasn't had enough time in the starting XV yet but you can't rule him out being the McCaw to Carter's Kronfeld.

Shag is on the record comparing J Savea to J Lomu. As I've outlined before, Savea's try-scoring record is hard to match, at least in a black jersey. It would seem to be only a matter of time before he takes Howlett's record (and in fewer tests).

I would probably still take Cullen over Ben Smith but Ben would be my pick in a current World XV.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[zer0]

I'd say that, at the moment, Retallick, Whitelock, Kaino, Read, A.Smith and B.Smith are all well on track for all time professional great status.

[Lizard]

I didn't think about Kaino, actually. He debuted in 2006(!) and certainly no one has put their hand up as superior recently. He is no doubt one of the first names on the sheet but is he significantly better than Jerry Collins, say? Before that we had the debacle of the late '90s Blowers/Randell/Thorne era which makes anyone look handy in comparison.

Don't get me wrong, I think Kaino is a very, very impressive player but perhaps not quite an all-time great (unlike Sione Lauaki).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[zer0]

I did say in the professional era, which means his only real competition is Collins. For mine Kaino hits almost as hard as Collins and does more around the park. He also seems to be evolving into the new Brad Thorn, so I wouldn't discount him being a starter at the 2019 RWC.

[cashead]

Yeah, I think Kaino is comfortably one of the best blindsides we've ever had.

I'd also say that Julian Savea will probably be more highly regarded in retirement than he is now.

[cashead]

Oh, and the Henry/Hansen era is easily the best coaching dynasties the All Blacks have ever had.

[Lizard]

Yeah, I think Kaino is comfortably one of the best blindsides we've ever had.

Sure, but who else is there? It's not a position where we've had a production line of world-beaters. I guess our loose forward talent tends to end up on the open side.

Given that the distinction between open and blind really only came in the late 60's you probably have to exclude anyone from before then. (I'm also not counting great 7s who switched to 6, like Michael Jones.)

Kel Tremaine and Ian Kirkpatrick were on the cusp of specialisation and were certainly all-time greats, although with the latter (like Fitzpatrick) it can be difficult to disentangle the captain from the player.

Alan Whetton is perhaps the other candidate.

[cashead]

So a lack of viable alternatives is something that Kaino should be criticised for?

[Spiffy]

I'd say that, at the moment, Retallick, Whitelock, Kaino, Read, A.Smith and B.Smith are all well on track for all time professional great status.

Agree that Retallick (a force of nature), A. Smith and B.Smith (total class in any position he plays, a natural) are something special.

[Lizard]

So a lack of viable alternatives is something that Kaino should be criticised for?

Not at all. I'm just saying that being one of the best blindsides we've had is not necessarily the same thing as being an all time great (unlike, say, opensides or first five-eighths). Being the tallest in a room of dwarves doesn't make you a giant. You could probably say the same thing about half-backs.

Kaino is a fairly key part of the current team, and the way he has re-established himself after playing in Japan is perhaps a unique achievement in NZ.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lizard]

I'd say that, at the moment, Retallick, Whitelock, Kaino, Read, A.Smith and B.Smith are all well on track for all time professional great status.

Agree that Retallick (a force of nature), A. Smith and B.Smith (total class in any position he plays, a natural) are something special.

Someone at Chch airport certainly thought A. Smith was something special.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Spiffy]

I'd say that, at the moment, Retallick, Whitelock, Kaino, Read, A.Smith and B.Smith are all well on track for all time professional great status.

Agree that Retallick (a force of nature), A. Smith and B.Smith (total class in any position he plays, a natural) are something special.

Someone at Chch airport certainly thought A. Smith was something special.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Surely he's too short for a knee trembler (suppose it depends on slapper size.)

[Lizard]

It was in the disabled cubicle, so presumably there were hand rails and the like he could climb up on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rowan]

Graham Henry thinks it's boring:

Former All Blacks coach Graham Henry believes the side's continued domination would be "boring" for the game.

Speaking to media in Dubai on Thursday where he was a guest at the Emirates Airline Rugby Long Lunch, Henry welcomed signs of improvement from Australia and South Africa over the closing stages of the Rugby Championship, saying it's exactly what the game needed.

"I haven't coached in six years," he said. "And the game's changed immensely in that six years. What the All Blacks have done is been initiators in that change, they're inventive."

Graham Henry, right, won the 2011 Rugby World Cup with Richie McCaw.

"They didn't score a try from their own ball initially against South Africa," Henry continued. "Two turnovers and an intercept, whereas South Africa had to build their tries."

Continues here: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... ion-boring