RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote: Ford did do it often; Faz isn't built that way.

Do you mean that Ford used to do it or has done recently?

he's been running for Tigers. Thought he did a fair bit of running in Argentina, but only saw highlights. He ran a lot v Italy, not much v Scotland (he and faz did 7 yards between em). Its hard to judge in isolation though.

What point are you trying to get to? As you said, he isn't being set up to run; I do wonder whether he is standing a little deeper than ideal.

As I said, I don't see it as a major issue, just an indication of the suppression of his talent to England's detriment. I suppose I also see it as implied criticism (by Eddie) of Youngs and Farrell both of whom, in public, he never criticises. Taking that on further, we on the board, whinge about them and can't understand the pundits' praise. Maybe, Eddie agrees w ith us more than he indicates???

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
Do you mean that Ford used to do it or has done recently?

he's been running for Tigers. Thought he did a fair bit of running in Argentina, but only saw highlights. He ran a lot v Italy, not much v Scotland (he and faz did 7 yards between em). Its hard to judge in isolation though.

What point are you trying to get to? As you said, he isn't being set up to run; I do wonder whether he is standing a little deeper than ideal.

As I said, I don't see it as a major issue, just an indication of the suppression of his talent to England's detriment. I suppose I also see it as implied criticism (by Eddie) of Youngs and Farrell both of whom, in public, he never criticises. Taking that on further, we on the board, whinge about them and can't understand the pundits' praise. Maybe, Eddie agrees w ith us more than he indicates???

Talent constrained, rather than suppressed I reckon. Eddie rates both of them I think.

Puja wrote:

Dasheragain wrote: Remember I'm not picking Wade as a first choice winger. I'm saying I'd love to see him play for England and I think he'd be successful and score a lot of tries. He's got faults with his game, as he does for Wasps, but he's our most dangerous player and could be exciting for England.

Re other selection points - I'm not a computer, I'm allowed to vary my selection criteria... I can pick a flare winger using different selection criteria to those I use for picking flankers or even the fly half - each individual has their own merits and has a different competitor(s) for their shirt to judge against. Personally I'd go Roko and Daly to start I think.

When did Haskell's physical attributes fall away? They hadn't in the six nations when he was hugely powerful off the bench and they hadn't last year. He didn't look poor for the lions either. I'd wager physically he's comparable with Robshaw no?

Yeah, but you don't pick Robshaw (just) for his physicality. It's the brain and nous where he leaves Haskell in the dust.

On Wade, I'm sad to say that I've lost the faith with him. He can do some magic things and, when the game is loose and space is ample, he's a weapon. If there's a tight, pressured game and no-one's giving him an inch, he's a passenger far too often for my liking.

If you want a Robinson-a-like (who could create space even when none was given), have you had much of a look at Tom Collins for Saints this year?

Puja

I agree with a lot of what you say Puja, but comparing Collins to Robinson is hyperbolic. He's playing well, but Robinson at his best was a freak.

bitts wrote:

Puja wrote:

Dasheragain wrote: Remember I'm not picking Wade as a first choice winger. I'm saying I'd love to see him play for England and I think he'd be successful and score a lot of tries. He's got faults with his game, as he does for Wasps, but he's our most dangerous player and could be exciting for England.

Re other selection points - I'm not a computer, I'm allowed to vary my selection criteria... I can pick a flare winger using different selection criteria to those I use for picking flankers or even the fly half - each individual has their own merits and has a different competitor(s) for their shirt to judge against. Personally I'd go Roko and Daly to start I think.

When did Haskell's physical attributes fall away? They hadn't in the six nations when he was hugely powerful off the bench and they hadn't last year. He didn't look poor for the lions either. I'd wager physically he's comparable with Robshaw no?

Yeah, but you don't pick Robshaw (just) for his physicality. It's the brain and nous where he leaves Haskell in the dust.

On Wade, I'm sad to say that I've lost the faith with him. He can do some magic things and, when the game is loose and space is ample, he's a weapon. If there's a tight, pressured game and no-one's giving him an inch, he's a passenger far too often for my liking.

If you want a Robinson-a-like (who could create space even when none was given), have you had much of a look at Tom Collins for Saints this year?

Puja

I agree with a lot of what you say Puja, but comparing Collins to Robinson is hyperbolic. He's playing well, but Robinson at his best was a freak.

Oh, yes absolutely. Massively premature, long way off if ever, etc, etc. He reminds me of him in style of play and ability to affect a game, albeit at a much lower level currently.

And you agree with a lot of what I say?! Dearie me, that's alarming. Have you seen a doctor?

Puja

Cips goes perhaps once or twice a game for Wasps now, normally when the defence finally starts to slip off him, but since he often takes it to the line, he's fixing the defenders without going himself. Wade is often used the same way, he often pops up in the midfield, he's just never the best option since 2 defenders get sucked in, and there's more room out wide.

Ford has been running for Tigers more I reckon, but it seems to be more where play has broken up, and he just doesn't have any other real option. Farrell was stretching his legs a few times for Sarries last season, normally in the last 20, when the defence is ignoring him so entirely, he simply has to move forwards without stepping anyone. Some of the breaks he made for England when at 10, were ludicrous, I think it was against the French one time where for phases you could see every single defender just ignoring him, and then he goes and it's completely shocks them.

Raggs wrote:Cips goes perhaps once or twice a game for Wasps now, normally when the defence finally starts to slip off him, but since he often takes it to the line, he's fixing the defenders without going himself. Wade is often used the same way, he often pops up in the midfield, he's just never the best option since 2 defenders get sucked in, and there's more room out wide.

Ford has been running for Tigers more I reckon, but it seems to be more where play has broken up, and he just doesn't have any other real option. Farrell was stretching his legs a few times for Sarries last season, normally in the last 20, when the defence is ignoring him so entirely, he simply has to move forwards without stepping anyone. Some of the breaks he made for England when at 10, were ludicrous, I think it was against the French one time where for phases you could see every single defender just ignoring him, and then he goes and it's completely shocks them.

The problem being, I suppose, that every time he didn't go JJ ended up with two defenders on him.

bitts wrote:

Raggs wrote:Cips goes perhaps once or twice a game for Wasps now, normally when the defence finally starts to slip off him, but since he often takes it to the line, he's fixing the defenders without going himself. Wade is often used the same way, he often pops up in the midfield, he's just never the best option since 2 defenders get sucked in, and there's more room out wide.

Ford has been running for Tigers more I reckon, but it seems to be more where play has broken up, and he just doesn't have any other real option. Farrell was stretching his legs a few times for Sarries last season, normally in the last 20, when the defence is ignoring him so entirely, he simply has to move forwards without stepping anyone. Some of the breaks he made for England when at 10, were ludicrous, I think it was against the French one time where for phases you could see every single defender just ignoring him, and then he goes and it's completely shocks them.

The problem being, I suppose, that every time he didn't go JJ ended up with two defenders on him.

The more annoying thing for me, is people then point to those examples of him being a great running threat as well.

Obviously it's very, very early, but perhaps that's where Smith may turn out to be an interesting option? He definitely has a decent step on him and a is a running threat as well as being a decent playmaker. If he carries on as he's started, he could be a serious contender in 2 years time.

I like the way that Collins seems to be getting himself involved and I think a combination of work-rate, elusiveness and genuine pace could make him a real contender - at least for a wider EPS place.

Raggs wrote:

bitts wrote:

Raggs wrote:Cips goes perhaps once or twice a game for Wasps now, normally when the defence finally starts to slip off him, but since he often takes it to the line, he's fixing the defenders without going himself. Wade is often used the same way, he often pops up in the midfield, he's just never the best option since 2 defenders get sucked in, and there's more room out wide.

Ford has been running for Tigers more I reckon, but it seems to be more where play has broken up, and he just doesn't have any other real option. Farrell was stretching his legs a few times for Sarries last season, normally in the last 20, when the defence is ignoring him so entirely, he simply has to move forwards without stepping anyone. Some of the breaks he made for England when at 10, were ludicrous, I think it was against the French one time where for phases you could see every single defender just ignoring him, and then he goes and it's completely shocks them.

The problem being, I suppose, that every time he didn't go JJ ended up with two defenders on him.

The more annoying thing for me, is people then point to those examples of him being a great running threat as well.

This. Absolutely this.

My god, it's hard not to make a comparison to Ben Youngs here.

I suppose it would at least drag the conversation slightly back towards the pack.

Puja wrote:

bitts wrote:

Puja wrote:
Yeah, but you don't pick Robshaw (just) for his physicality. It's the brain and nous where he leaves Haskell in the dust.

On Wade, I'm sad to say that I've lost the faith with him. He can do some magic things and, when the game is loose and space is ample, he's a weapon. If there's a tight, pressured game and no-one's giving him an inch, he's a passenger far too often for my liking.

If you want a Robinson-a-like (who could create space even when none was given), have you had much of a look at Tom Collins for Saints this year?

Puja

I agree with a lot of what you say Puja, but comparing Collins to Robinson is hyperbolic. He's playing well, but Robinson at his best was a freak.

Oh, yes absolutely. Massively premature, long way off if ever, etc, etc. He reminds me of him in style of play and ability to affect a game, albeit at a much lower level currently.

And you agree with a lot of what I say?! Dearie me, that's alarming. Have you seen a doctor?

Puja

Collins just gassed round Yarde in the Saints Quins game. Very happy he's finally getting a run of games.

Eddie did say he was looking for a Milner-Skudder type to emerge...

Gassed is a little generous, Yarde seemed to be keeping pace with him, despite having to turn. Collins has lethal acceleration though. A side point, I'd rate Yarde as one of the slower England wings (faster than Nowell, but slower than the other options), so I'd hope any other hopeful could do him in a foot race.

Timbo wrote:Eddie did say he was looking for a Milner-Skudder type to emerge...

A player who gets an intercept ball and even with a headstart can't make it to the tryline as a winger?

Digby wrote:

Timbo wrote:Eddie did say he was looking for a Milner-Skudder type to emerge...

A player who gets an intercept ball and even with a headstart can't make it to the tryline as a winger?

ha yes, but he's a terrific player...surprised that wasn't really picked up more, got lost in the excitement over Barrett's pass.

It's almost like there's more to being a top international wing than out and out pace
#whoknew
#teamnowell

unfortunately i don't see collins being Eddies radar IMO.

Why not? Eddie's the type that is never 100% satisfied. If Collins keeps performing as he has been, there's no reason why he can't put himself in the mix.

Mentioned on the EPS thread, but he didn't seem to eager to try and tackle Roberts, and at the moment I think defences are giving him a lot more space than he'd work with after half a season or two. Let's see how he's doing when players are double marking him, like they do Roko, May and Wade.

Timbo wrote:It's almost like there's more to being a top international wing than out and out pace
#whoknew
#teamnowell

true, but if that's lacking a tad, you sure better do everything else near perfectly............

Stom wrote:I have no doubt Haskell will be in the squad. But I'd rather he wasn't picked ahead of Underhill.

I would have no problem with Haskell in the squad to but as a 6 back up to Robshaw, but please not at 7 !

jngf wrote:

Stom wrote:I have no doubt Haskell will be in the squad. But I'd rather he wasn't picked ahead of Underhill.

I would have no problem with Haskell in the squad to but as a 6 back up to Robshaw, but please not at 7 !

did you watch him today?