RugbyRebels

Well we know it will be Faz at 10 and I’d hope for either Kelly or Marchant to provide a little more handling/passing ability outside. With some genuinely fast, threatening wings out wide it would be nice if we can actually get the ball there.

Will be very interesting to see how Borthwick/Evans view the roles of Tuilagi and Lawrence.

Given he was named in the squad ahead of Lawrence you'd have to assume Marchant is ahead of Ollie in the pecking order. Think Watson now walks back into the team. I'd like to find a spot for Murley, but reckon the other wing berth is a shoot-out between Malins and Hassell-Collins, and OHC has a slight advantage due to the fact that in the absence of Slade and Daly he's got a decent left peg (most kicking metres of any winger in the Prem I've read somewhere, although have no way of verifying that fact and therefore it might be genuine grade-A horse manure). Starting back line to me now probably looks something like:

JvP
Farrell
OHC
Kelly
Tuilagi
Watson
Steward

... which isn't terrible? Slade and Daly being injured probably rejigs the thinking around Manu to an extent that I don't think he was initially viewed as an option at 13 but a couple of experienced operators being taken out means a bit of a quick fix might be viewed as being needed. Manu/Marchant is also quite likely though IMO, with Smith and one of Kelly or Lawrence on the bench.

Why does Watson jump the queue but Lawrence doesn’t? Have either continued their form after good flashes a little while back?

I’m not convinced Tuilagi has the pace for 13 anymore and doesn’t play there at all at club level.

I just can’t picture Malins being picked as a wing again either.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:43 pm Why does Watson jump the queue but Lawrence doesn’t? Have either continued their form after good flashes a little while back?

I’m not convinced Tuilagi has the pace for 13 anymore and doesn’t play there at all at club level.

I just can’t picture Malins being picked as a wing again either.

Because Watson has 50 caps behind him and is proven international quality in an area of the squad that now looks light on experience. Could also see Malins as being earmarked for the floating playmaker role I suspect Daly might have had first dibs on, although I also think his wing days are probably over.

SDHoneymonster wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:19 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:43 pm Why does Watson jump the queue but Lawrence doesn’t? Have either continued their form after good flashes a little while back?

I’m not convinced Tuilagi has the pace for 13 anymore and doesn’t play there at all at club level.

I just can’t picture Malins being picked as a wing again either.

Because Watson has 50 caps behind him and is proven international quality in an area of the squad that now looks light on experience. Could also see Malins as being earmarked for the floating playmaker role I suspect Daly might have had first dibs on, although I also think his wing days are probably over.

If Borthwick wanted experience first and foremost, then the second highest try scorer in English rugby history was available (and I'd argue coming back into form with Glaws). Both he and Watson were available at rhe original date of naming the squad (and when Daly went down injured as well) and Borthwick didn't pick them.

Watson's a great player, but he's still not back at his best nor in the form that demands selection. Both OHC and Murley are.

Puja

Watson is very fortunate to be back in the squad. Its on rep alone. Much like Tuilagi.

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:24 pm

SDHoneymonster wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:19 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:43 pm Why does Watson jump the queue but Lawrence doesn’t? Have either continued their form after good flashes a little while back?

I’m not convinced Tuilagi has the pace for 13 anymore and doesn’t play there at all at club level.

I just can’t picture Malins being picked as a wing again either.

Because Watson has 50 caps behind him and is proven international quality in an area of the squad that now looks light on experience. Could also see Malins as being earmarked for the floating playmaker role I suspect Daly might have had first dibs on, although I also think his wing days are probably over.

If Borthwick wanted experience first and foremost, then the second highest try scorer in English rugby history was available (and I'd argue coming back into form with Glaws). Both he and Watson were available at rhe original date of naming the squad (and when Daly went down injured as well) and Borthwick didn't pick them.

Watson's a great player, but he's still not back at his best nor in the form that demands selection. Both OHC and Murley are.

Puja

Was Watson not carrying a leg injury for several weeks prior to this weekend's match? I also don't buy your notion of domestic form "demanding selection" - to me, that only applies in exceptional cases. The club game isn't the same as international rugby & domestic form should only ever be part of the picture.

Every time Watson has played for the last couple of months he’s looked electric & very classy. Albeit that Leicester don’t get the ball in his hands often enough.

Seems natural that he’s back in the squad to me & I think there’s every chance he comes straight into the team. Surprised there’s any negativity around him being back at all tbh.

rjjb wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:03 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:24 pm

SDHoneymonster wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:19 pm

Because Watson has 50 caps behind him and is proven international quality in an area of the squad that now looks light on experience. Could also see Malins as being earmarked for the floating playmaker role I suspect Daly might have had first dibs on, although I also think his wing days are probably over.

If Borthwick wanted experience first and foremost, then the second highest try scorer in English rugby history was available (and I'd argue coming back into form with Glaws). Both he and Watson were available at rhe original date of naming the squad (and when Daly went down injured as well) and Borthwick didn't pick them.

Watson's a great player, but he's still not back at his best nor in the form that demands selection. Both OHC and Murley are.

Puja

The club game isn't the same as international rugby & domestic form should only ever be part of the picture.

Perzackly.

Timbo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:23 pm Every time Watson has played for the last couple of months he’s looked electric & very classy. Albeit that Leicester don’t get the ball in his hands often enough.

Seems natural that he’s back in the squad to me & I think there’s every chance he comes straight into the team. Surprised there’s any negativity around him being back at all tbh.

aye, albeit imo his talent has never quite been fully realised.....injuries and teams he's been in most likely.

Having not watched loads of club rugby in the last six months, keen to understand why Freeman isn't considered a shoe in? Thought he looked a natural international (test match animal...) on the Oz tour and always looks dangerous in the Saints games / highlights I've seen.

Regardless of the above, will be an interesting selection that could go many ways - here's my stab at picking the side:

Genge; George; Cole; Itoje; Hill; Willis; Earl; Dombrandt; JvP; Farrell; OHC; Kelly; Marchant; Freeman(!); Steward
Mako; Walker; Sinckler; Chessum; Ludlam; Youngs; Smith; Tuilagi

If Watson is fit he’s straight in to my team. One of our few works class players, imo… if fully fit and on form.

remember those howls of anguish when Watson was omitted from the original squad......No, nor can I.

He hasnt played that much and doesnt look at his best to me. You could make a case that his experience makes him a useful addition but he shouldnt really be in the frame for a place in the 23.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:44 pm remember those howls of anguish when Watson was omitted from the original squad......No, nor can I.

He hasnt played that much and doesnt look at his best to me. You could make a case that his experience makes him a useful addition but he shouldnt really be in the frame for a place in the 23.

He did look like he was heading back towards his best form then went off early Vs either Newcastle or Sale. Missed a few weeks and came back in for the Saints game where he was ok but not in top gear. I'd have said he needs a other game or two to play his way back into form a bit but Tigers don't play again for a couple of weeks.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:44 pm remember those howls of anguish when Watson was omitted from the original squad......No, nor can I.

He hasnt played that much and doesnt look at his best to me. You could make a case that his experience makes him a useful addition but he shouldnt really be in the frame for a place in the 23.

I for one didn't object, because my assumption (as noted above) was that he was injured.

Dan Kelly out....2 try Guy in.

BALLS!!!!!!!

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:06 pm Dan Kelly out....2 try Guy in.

BALLS!!!!!!!

That's not funny. Please tell me it's a bad joke.

Ah FFS, just when you thought we might actually get a sodding 12 wearing the 12 shirt. Porter isn't even match sharp.

What is Borthwick doing to them all?!

On the bright side, it increases the chances of Smith at 10 - I don't mind Farrell at 12, as I do think it can work and I'd rather have our best 10 and a slightly worse 12 than have a worse 10 and a slightly better 12. Fly-half is more important.

Puja

SixAndAHalf wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:25 pm Having not watched loads of club rugby in the last six months, keen to understand why Freeman isn't considered a shoe in? Thought he looked a natural international (test match animal...) on the Oz tour and always looks dangerous in the Saints games / highlights I've seen.

He's been pretty good, so yes I agree esp because he was excellent in oz.

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:13 pm What is Borthwick doing to them all?!

On the bright side, it increases the chances of Smith at 10 - I don't mind Farrell at 12, as I do think it can work and I'd rather have our best 10 and a slightly worse 12 than have a worse 10 and a slightly better 12. Fly-half is more important.

Puja

See that's been my thinking for most of the last 7 or 8 years, but I've recently swung back to wanting Farrell at 10, in lieu of Smith/Ford with a real 12. I don't know how much that's down to having had him at 12 more recently for England. I might go back the other way very quickly after watching him there for a few games. If I felt England could reliably get more out of Smith that would change too.

I have nothing against Porter at all, I just can't see which of these problems he is solving. What a shame for Kelly.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:44 pm remember those howls of anguish when Watson was omitted from the original squad......No, nor can I.

He hasnt played that much and doesnt look at his best to me. You could make a case that his experience makes him a useful addition but he shouldnt really be in the frame for a place in the 23.

He had been out injured, hence no howls.

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:13 pm - I don't mind Farrell at 12, as I do think it can work

Puja

despite all the evidence

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:19 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:13 pm What is Borthwick doing to them all?!

On the bright side, it increases the chances of Smith at 10 - I don't mind Farrell at 12, as I do think it can work and I'd rather have our best 10 and a slightly worse 12 than have a worse 10 and a slightly better 12. Fly-half is more important.

Puja

See that's been my thinking for most of the last 7 or 8 years, but I've recently swung back to wanting Farrell at 10, in lieu of Smith/Ford with a real 12. I don't know how much that's down to having had him at 12 more recently for England. I might go back the other way very quickly after watching him there for a few games. If I felt England could reliably get more out of Smith that would change too.

I have nothing against Porter at all, I just can't see which of these problems he is solving. What a shame for Kelly.

Faz hasn't started much other than at 12 for quite a long time now iirc. Which is odd, as he never starts there for sarries.

I have a lot against Porter tbh. He's not looked up to it so far, and he hasn't played for about a month.