we need an egregiosity scale herePuja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 4:12 pmDean Ryan seems more egregious than Andrew.Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:59 amSteve Borthwick?
Martin Johnson?
2011 version of Stuart Lancaster?
Rob Andrews?
Puja

Moderator: Puja
we need an egregiosity scale herePuja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 4:12 pmDean Ryan seems more egregious than Andrew.Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:59 amSteve Borthwick?
Martin Johnson?
2011 version of Stuart Lancaster?
Rob Andrews?
Puja
Some would still be off it.
Yep. He’ll probably age out over the next few years but we definitely shouldn’t cast aside his experience and consistency quite yet. I just want to see a drastically different approach to blooding the next options in line.16th man wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:13 am Trying to respect some demarcation between this thread and the A team one:
I see there are a lot of people who put George on their time to move on list. I'm not following the logic. Yes he could probably do with a summer off, and we need to get some experience into possible replacements, but he's still our best option, the nearest contender has been out injured fir some time, and we do really need to blood some new options in other tight 5 slots. Chucking George out just strikes me as a bit (bloke who still looks like an oversized) baby with the bath water.
We're not going to throw out Genge, we probably won't throw out Sinckler. I think we can afford to experiment at hooker for the next year. Though I don't really mind, it's the least of our problems.16th man wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:13 am Trying to respect some demarcation between this thread and the A team one:
I see there are a lot of people who put George on their time to move on list. I'm not following the logic. Yes he could probably do with a summer off, and we need to get some experience into possible replacements, but he's still our best option, the nearest contender has been out injured fir some time, and we do really need to blood some new options in other tight 5 slots. Chucking George out just strikes me as a bit (bloke who still looks like an oversized) baby with the bath water.
yep, Creevy still going at about 76 so years in George yet16th man wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:13 am Trying to respect some demarcation between this thread and the A team one:
I see there are a lot of people who put George on their time to move on list. I'm not following the logic. Yes he could probably do with a summer off, and we need to get some experience into possible replacements, but he's still our best option, the nearest contender has been out injured fir some time, and we do really need to blood some new options in other tight 5 slots. Chucking George out just strikes me as a bit (bloke who still looks like an oversized) baby with the bath water.
Strange way for you to announce your playing comebackBanquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:47 pmyep, Creevy still going at about 76 so years in George yet16th man wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:13 am Trying to respect some demarcation between this thread and the A team one:
I see there are a lot of people who put George on their time to move on list. I'm not following the logic. Yes he could probably do with a summer off, and we need to get some experience into possible replacements, but he's still our best option, the nearest contender has been out injured fir some time, and we do really need to blood some new options in other tight 5 slots. Chucking George out just strikes me as a bit (bloke who still looks like an oversized) baby with the bath water.![]()
funny you should say that....Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:17 pmStrange way for you to announce your playing comebackBanquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:47 pmyep, Creevy still going at about 76 so years in George yet16th man wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:13 am Trying to respect some demarcation between this thread and the A team one:
I see there are a lot of people who put George on their time to move on list. I'm not following the logic. Yes he could probably do with a summer off, and we need to get some experience into possible replacements, but he's still our best option, the nearest contender has been out injured fir some time, and we do really need to blood some new options in other tight 5 slots. Chucking George out just strikes me as a bit (bloke who still looks like an oversized) baby with the bath water.![]()
![]()
While I definitely don't want to see him playing 78-80 minute games again, I think I'd prefer to keep George for the time being. Evolution is a lot easier with a strong base to work from and it'll make it hard to see how good our other experiments are if we've deliberately weakened our set-piece. In addition to that, we're not exactly overflowing with alternatives who are demanding selection - Dan is definitively behind George in either colour shirt and I am a believer in making a young player earn a starting place by improving, rather than gifting it to them on the basis that they're young.Stom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:10 pmWe're not going to throw out Genge, we probably won't throw out Sinckler. I think we can afford to experiment at hooker for the next year. Though I don't really mind, it's the least of our problems.16th man wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:13 am Trying to respect some demarcation between this thread and the A team one:
I see there are a lot of people who put George on their time to move on list. I'm not following the logic. Yes he could probably do with a summer off, and we need to get some experience into possible replacements, but he's still our best option, the nearest contender has been out injured fir some time, and we do really need to blood some new options in other tight 5 slots. Chucking George out just strikes me as a bit (bloke who still looks like an oversized) baby with the bath water.
I guess I just thought George might have retired...don't know where I got that from. If he's not, sure. But maybe bench him and have him come on as the impact, giving the youngster a chance to actually get proper minutes instead of the inevitable Dunn Time.Puja wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:58 pmWhile I definitely don't want to see him playing 78-80 minute games again, I think I'd prefer to keep George for the time being. Evolution is a lot easier with a strong base to work from and it'll make it hard to see how good our other experiments are if we've deliberately weakened our set-piece. In addition to that, we're not exactly overflowing with alternatives who are demanding selection - Dan is definitively behind George in either colour shirt and I am a believer in making a young player earn a starting place by improving, rather than gifting it to them on the basis that they're young.Stom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:10 pmWe're not going to throw out Genge, we probably won't throw out Sinckler. I think we can afford to experiment at hooker for the next year. Though I don't really mind, it's the least of our problems.16th man wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:13 am Trying to respect some demarcation between this thread and the A team one:
I see there are a lot of people who put George on their time to move on list. I'm not following the logic. Yes he could probably do with a summer off, and we need to get some experience into possible replacements, but he's still our best option, the nearest contender has been out injured fir some time, and we do really need to blood some new options in other tight 5 slots. Chucking George out just strikes me as a bit (bloke who still looks like an oversized) baby with the bath water.
Puja
..... as long as he stops eating.Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:47 pmyep, Creevy still going at about 76 so years in George yet16th man wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:13 am Trying to respect some demarcation between this thread and the A team one:
I see there are a lot of people who put George on their time to move on list. I'm not following the logic. Yes he could probably do with a summer off, and we need to get some experience into possible replacements, but he's still our best option, the nearest contender has been out injured fir some time, and we do really need to blood some new options in other tight 5 slots. Chucking George out just strikes me as a bit (bloke who still looks like an oversized) baby with the bath water.![]()
Frost is starting to look worthy of consideration!fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 4:31 pm If we had a couple of guys ready to step up i'd drop George in a heartbeat. We dont. So keeping him around over the next 12-18 months makes sense.
The hope must be that Dan overtakes him at club and international level and someone else comes into contention.
Great chance for Sam Riley if he can lift his game up a level.
I'd say Riley already has stepped up a level looking at his performances so far this season. I'd say he more needs to show some consistency over a few weeks. He's well on the way.fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 4:31 pm If we had a couple of guys ready to step up i'd drop George in a heartbeat. We dont. So keeping him around over the next 12-18 months makes sense.
The hope must be that Dan overtakes him at club and international level and someone else comes into contention.
Great chance for Sam Riley if he can lift his game up a level.
Certainly is at the moment. And the wrong player for the game plan. He’s a player who thrives with ball not chasing endless kicks.Spiffy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 4:31 pmYes. Henry has obviously been given a roving commission and did look very dangerous running through the midfield. What a dream start to his career in France with three tries - all of high quality. He's actually too good for EnglandEpaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 9:29 am Of note in the game was both wingers came of their wings a lot, as you'd expect in a normal team, as opposed to the rigidity of England.![]()
Sounds good, but does Slack Bladder have the inclination to adopt a more expansive game? Introduce players like Quirke at 9, Smith F or Shillcock at fly half and Atkinson at centre, for example, and we could see the beginnings of something special.TheNomad wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:08 pm I'd argue it's just the wrong game plan. As others have said, let's not judge too quickly on the world cup, as ultimately it was (if you're being kind) focused on the prosaic.
There's time now to build something interesting. Needs a fresh start, including introducing (in my opinion) a more expansive game that actually looks to score tries
That is... an interesting recipe for what's needed for an expansive game. Shillcock? I mean, I love him as a player, but he's not England quality, nor as exciting a player as MSmith or Ford.francoisfou wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:43 pmSounds good, but does Slack Bladder have the inclination to adopt a more expansive game? Introduce players like Quirke at 9, Smith F or Shillcock at fly half and Atkinson at centre, for example, and we could see the beginnings of something special.TheNomad wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:08 pm I'd argue it's just the wrong game plan. As others have said, let's not judge too quickly on the world cup, as ultimately it was (if you're being kind) focused on the prosaic.
There's time now to build something interesting. Needs a fresh start, including introducing (in my opinion) a more expansive game that actually looks to score tries
I’ve not seen much of Shillcock, but what I have seems very promising, so I’d not dismiss his chances just yet. He and Smith F may well be on opposing sides sometime on Saturday.Puja wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:56 pmThat is... an interesting recipe for what's needed for an expansive game. Shillcock? I mean, I love him as a player, but he's not England quality, nor as exciting a player as MSmith or Ford.francoisfou wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:43 pmSounds good, but does Slack Bladder have the inclination to adopt a more expansive game? Introduce players like Quirke at 9, Smith F or Shillcock at fly half and Atkinson at centre, for example, and we could see the beginnings of something special.TheNomad wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:08 pm I'd argue it's just the wrong game plan. As others have said, let's not judge too quickly on the world cup, as ultimately it was (if you're being kind) focused on the prosaic.
There's time now to build something interesting. Needs a fresh start, including introducing (in my opinion) a more expansive game that actually looks to score tries
Puja
Shillcock is a good club option but he's 26 and not a first choice player at either 10 or 15. Happy to have him at Tigers mind.francoisfou wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:09 pmI’ve not seen much of Shillcock, but what I have seems very promising, so I’d not dismiss his chances just yet. He and Smith F may well be on opposing sides sometime on Saturday.Puja wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:56 pmThat is... an interesting recipe for what's needed for an expansive game. Shillcock? I mean, I love him as a player, but he's not England quality, nor as exciting a player as MSmith or Ford.francoisfou wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:43 pm
Sounds good, but does Slack Bladder have the inclination to adopt a more expansive game? Introduce players like Quirke at 9, Smith F or Shillcock at fly half and Atkinson at centre, for example, and we could see the beginnings of something special.
Puja
With Pollard and Steward in front of him, no, but he’s certainly made the most of his opportunities and may continue to improve.FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 7:04 amShillcock is a good club option but he's 26 and not a first choice player at either 10 or 15. Happy to have him at Tigers mind.francoisfou wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:09 pmI’ve not seen much of Shillcock, but what I have seems very promising, so I’d not dismiss his chances just yet. He and Smith F may well be on opposing sides sometime on Saturday.
The difference is that May/Daly are on the wane and Arundell is clearly better, whereas Ford is still beating out both Smiths and showing no signs of falling away. We should back fresh, new potential when it's earning a shirt, not just gift it caps because we think it's got the potential to be good enough with time. That way lies Joe Cokanasiga.