World Cup Training Squad

[Raggs]

Agree on mixed xv.

[Mikey Brown]

I'd probably go a mixed XV for both with a bit of horses for courses. Cokanasiga's not going to be anything unusual to Tonga, but will be horrible for the US to deal with. Same with Tuilagi. I'd also keep the key players who we can't afford to lose to injuries (Vunipolae, George, Youngs) away from the angry Polynesians.

I'd go with:
Marler
LCD
Sinckler
Itoje
Kruis
Dombrandt/Shields
Curry
Wilson
Spencer
Ford
May
Te'o (as we apparently are going to select him regardless of anything else)
Slade
Watson
Daly


And then,

Mako
George
Cole
Launch
Lawes
Dombrandt/Shields
Underhill
BillyV
Youngs
Farrell
Cokanasiga
Manu
Joseph
Nowell
Watson

This is assuming 4 centres and either 5 props or 2 s/h.

Puja

I don't know why we haven't all been using this word.

[jngf]

Still to be convinced about Wilson as a no.8 tbh. He’s a got good engine but it’s evidence of power from off the scrum base and explosiveness that I’m yet to see. Reminds me too much of Easter and Dowson when playing there. But more than happy to be proved wrong!

[Banquo]

Still to be convinced about Wilson as a no.8 tbh. He’s a got good engine but it’s evidence of power from off the scrum base and explosiveness that I’m yet to see. Reminds me too much of Easter and Dowson when playing there. But more than happy to be proved wrong!

he's quicker off the base than both, and certainly works harder than Easter.

[Mikey Brown]

Still to be convinced about Wilson as a no.8 tbh. He’s a got good engine but it’s evidence of power from off the scrum base and explosiveness that I’m yet to see. Reminds me too much of Easter and Dowson when playing there. But more than happy to be proved wrong!

He's definitely a 6. Maybe lacks a bit of that dynamic/explosive carrying you might want from an 8 but he's very secure there and that's not to be dismissed. Dombrandt is basically the opposite of that. No idea if Shields has played there at all.

I definitely don't see Wilson as backup 8 being in the top 10 concerns.

[Timbo]

But he is ultimately ‘just’ our back up 8. Unless you’re happy to use Itoje or Lawes at 6 it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to carry 2 specialist 8’s in a squad of 31.

[jngf]

But he is ultimately ‘just’ our back up 8. Unless you’re happy to use Itoje or Lawes at 6 it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to carry 2 specialist 8’s in a squad of 31.

Given no.8 is a pretty specialist role I think two of them in a squad of 31 is reasonable - I would have thought it’s easier for an 8 (or a 7 like Underhill) to cover the 6 berth than an out and out 6 trying to play 8?

[Stom]

But he is ultimately ‘just’ our back up 8. Unless you’re happy to use Itoje or Lawes at 6 it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to carry 2 specialist 8’s in a squad of 31.

Given no.8 is a pretty specialist role I think two of them in a squad of 31 is reasonable - I would have thought it’s easier for an 8 (or a 7 like Underhill) to cover the 6 berth than an out and out 6 trying to play 8?

Wilson has played plenty of 8. Which 8 who has played flanker would you select?

Your options are:

Jack Clifford
Timmy Harrison

A case can be made for Clifford, but I'd rather have Dombrandt, tbh.

[Which Tyler]

Wilson has played plenty of 8. Which 8 who has played flanker would you select?

Your options are:

Jack Clifford
Timmy Harrison

A case can be made for Clifford, but I'd rather have Dombrandt, tbh.

Poor Zach can't even make this list

[Stom]

Wilson has played plenty of 8. Which 8 who has played flanker would you select?

Your options are:

Jack Clifford
Timmy Harrison

A case can be made for Clifford, but I'd rather have Dombrandt, tbh.

Poor Zach can't even make this list

Lol, he completely flew my mind.

[Puja]

Sam Simmonds doesn't even get mentioned as someone that was forgotten about. Harsh.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Don’t forget Jordan Crane.

[Timbo]

But he is ultimately ‘just’ our back up 8. Unless you’re happy to use Itoje or Lawes at 6 it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to carry 2 specialist 8’s in a squad of 31.

Given no.8 is a pretty specialist role I think two of them in a squad of 31 is reasonable - I would have thought it’s easier for an 8 (or a 7 like Underhill) to cover the 6 berth than an out and out 6 trying to play 8?

I wouldn’t say Wilson is an ‘out and out’ 6, he’s got plenty of experience across the backrow.

The issue is that none of Billy, Morgan or Hughes can cover 6 at test level, so to take 2 of them would be a luxury (and risky). Most teams this World Cup will use a flanker to back up their first choice 8.

[Which Tyler]

Sam Simmonds doesn't even get mentioned as someone that was forgotten about. Harsh.

Hasn't he just lost the entire season to injury?

Don’t forget Jordan Crane.

But I really, really want to!

[Puja]

Sam Simmonds doesn't even get mentioned as someone that was forgotten about. Harsh.

Hasn't he just lost the entire season to injury?

He was back and playing the last few games for Exeter and Ben Te'o has shown that you don't even need that to be invited into the EPS. I wouldn't pick him myself, but he would be another option as an 8-cum-flank, although probably not one acceptable to jngf.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Sam Simmonds doesn't even get mentioned as someone that was forgotten about. Harsh.

Hasn't he just lost the entire season to injury?

He was back and playing the last few games for Exeter and Ben Te'o has shown that you don't even need that to be invited into the EPS. I wouldn't pick him myself, but he would be another option as an 8-cum-flank, although probably not one acceptable to jngf.

Puja

If I remember correctly Jngf has signed off on him playing 7, so EJ should be all good to pick him if he needs some cover. He's quick and not that tall. Not sure he's got the lineout game for 6 though.

Now Te'o at 8. That's an idea with some legs. Good thinking, Puja.

[Scrumhead]

Joking aside, Lyon are actually exploring the idea of converting Bastareaud to 8.

I wonder whether Tuilagi might look at that later in his career. I think he has some of the skill set for it to work.

Also, I don’t know if anyone noticed this, but Joe Cokanasiga packed down at 8 for England in one of the games last year so we could launch Billy in midfield. I wonder if we’ll try that again?

[Puja]

Joking aside, Lyon are actually exploring the idea of converting Bastareaud to 8.

I wonder whether Tuilagi might look at that later in his career. I think he has some of the skill set for it to work.

Also, I don’t know if anyone noticed this, but Joe Cokanasiga packed down at 8 for England in one of the games last year so we could launch Billy in midfield. I wonder if we’ll try that again?

I did always think Manu would've made a hell of a 7. Very good over the ball. I think it's too late now to adapt though, and probably the same for Basta - he's having a run out in a friendly at 8, but Lyon will have signed him to cover centre during the RWC and his next contract with New York is specifically as a centre, so I don't know it'll go anywhere.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49248300
Te'o and Brown out - which probably (hopefully?) means curtains for their RWC chances, and presumably says good things about Daly, Watson and McConnochie at FB

[Oakboy]

Heinz in but Spencer out. Really???

[Digby]

Joking aside, Lyon are actually exploring the idea of converting Bastareaud to 8.

It's not easy to hide his lack or workrate in the centres, or is the hope giving him more work will see a loss of 3-4 stone?

[Puja]

Just noticed something which doesn't appear to've been a headline anywhere - at some point, we appear to have lost Tom Dunn, meaning Singleton is almost definitely going to Japan.

Anyone know if that's just happened post Treviso camp, or if Dunn was dropped a while ago?

Puja

[twitchy]

Ben Te’o and Mike Brown were dropped by England after they had an altercation during the team’s World Cup training camp in northern Italy.

The incident between the players erupted during one of the social events that were laid on by the England management to help the squad “bond and get closer as a team” during their 12-day heat and humidity camp in Treviso.

The Times understands that the breach of discipline was a factor in Eddie Jones’s decision to exclude both players from the final week of training before England’s 31-man World Cup squad is named on Monday.

It is the second time this year that Te’o, the centre who left Worcester Warriors at the end of last season, has been in hot water while on England duty.

In March, the 32-year-old and Billy Vunipola went out drinking until the early hours after England’s 38-38 draw with Scotland. They were made to apologise to the squad after senior players took a dim view of their conduct.

The fracas between Te’o and Brown was reported back to Jones. The RFU would not comment on why the players had been dropped this week but said they remain in World Cup contention.

England play Wales at Twickenham tomorrow in the first of four warm-up games. Willi Heinz, the uncapped Gloucester scrum half from New Zealand, now seems certain to be involved in the tournament after being given his England debut as vice-captain of an experimental team.

Ruaridh McConnochie, the Bath wing who won an Olympic silver medal as part of the Great Britain sevens team in 2016, will also make his Test debut against a Wales team who are close to full strength.

Jones insisted that tomorrow’s game will have no bearing on World Cup selection because the decisions had already been made. The focus, he said, had already switched to tournament preparation; something the squad have done for the past week without both Te’o and Brown.

Te’o has been a mainstay of the England set-up since he joined Worcester from Leinster in 2016, winning 20 Test caps including two for the British & Irish Lions against New Zealand. Even taking into account this latest indiscretion, it would be a surprise if England were to drop Te’o from their World Cup plans at this late stage given he is the midfield powerhouse alternative to Manu Tuilagi.

There is, though, an argument that the versatility offered by Piers Francis, the Northampton Saints player who will start at inside centre against Wales tomorrow, would be more valuable in a 31-man squad for a campaign in Japan this autumn, which begins with England playing Tonga and the United States in the space of four days.

Brown, the Harlequins full back, has not played for England since winning his 72nd cap on last summer’s tour to South Africa but forced his way back into the frame with selection for the World Cup training camps in Bristol and Treviso.

While in Italy, Brown said that England’s work in forging a strong team spirit had been better than he experienced in 2015, when tension over selection had caused divisions in the camp. The England players enjoyed a boat trip to Venice and went out regularly in different groups for drinks and meals.

“We have had some good times off the field together, making sure we bond and get closer as a team,” Brown said.

Heinz will be the oldest England player to make his debut since Darren Crompton, the prop, in 2007. He played against England in a midweek game for the Crusaders in 2014 but qualifies through his grandmother, Aylieff, who hailed from Hampshire.

“My grandmother met my grandfather who was with the New Zealand Navy in World War Two. They hit it off quickly and then she was on a boat back to New Zealand,” Heinz said.

“I was always really close with her. She was an avid sports fan and a very proud Englishwoman. I know she would be hugely proud of me getting this chance on Sunday.”

Heinz will form a new half-back combination with George Ford, the captain, while Tom Curry and Sam Underhill, the flankers, have been selected together for the first time in a new-look back row.

If Wales win at Twickenham and South Africa defeat New Zealand in the Rugby Championship then Warren Gatland’s team, who are on a 14-game unbeaten steak, will be ranked No 1 in the world.

[Oakboy]

One too many such incidents, I'd suggest. Something wrong about the training environment perhaps?

[Mikey Brown]

I guess I’m too old school. Clive always used to bang on about a good scrap once in a while being a good thing.