RugbyRebels

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:42 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:34 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:24 pm The Currys are wonderful scrappers. Put them up against top quality back row opposition, though, and their overall presence is inadequate.

They’ve played one match together and I thought they went well.
Agree with putting Willis inbetween them.

Currys plus Willis. Abso-bloody-lutey!!!

the lineout was an issue and will remain so, so its quite a trade off

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:58 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:42 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:34 pm

They’ve played one match together and I thought they went well.
Agree with putting Willis inbetween them.

Currys plus Willis. Abso-bloody-lutey!!!

the lineout was an issue and will remain so, so its quite a trade off

Was it though? We lost one through competition and one through LCD fucking up the throw. Every other lineout was clean ball, wasn't it?

Puja

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:55 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:43 pm

Stom wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:26 pm

It's not as if he dropped kicks. He lost his composure and made stupid mistakes. They're two very different things. You don't drop him for that, necessarily, it's not a technical error like Steward consistently makes.

Well he dropped the first one, which is why he ended up panicking behind the try line. He might not be dropped but he might be overtaken. It's a competitive area.

Steward over chasing one break isn't a massive issue. He starts dropping catches I'd be more worried. Can't see him being dropped though Marcus to 15 is an option Vs France if they are going to kick long.

yeah murley touched the first one, which the commentators missed, which is why he tried to run it out.

Thought Steward was ok- missing JGP one on one was no crime, most intl backs should beat most defenders one on one in space and running at pace. When he hit the line out wide the wingers seemed to be overrunning tho...timing I guess.

Not sure why Lawrence is getting stick; also worried that Tom Curry was broken again.

I'm with Stom on this one. It wasn't that he got beat. It was that there was no confidence that he was ever going to make the heroic last man tackle, even when everyone else saw the telegraphed step coming a mile away.

Thoughts on Ijote as captain? Tough start given the ref but I was definitely getting some Farrell vibes in the looks of disgust when he got a decision against him.

switchskier wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 10:21 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:55 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:43 pm

Well he dropped the first one, which is why he ended up panicking behind the try line. He might not be dropped but he might be overtaken. It's a competitive area.

Steward over chasing one break isn't a massive issue. He starts dropping catches I'd be more worried. Can't see him being dropped though Marcus to 15 is an option Vs France if they are going to kick long.

yeah murley touched the first one, which the commentators missed, which is why he tried to run it out.

Thought Steward was ok- missing JGP one on one was no crime, most intl backs should beat most defenders one on one in space and running at pace. When he hit the line out wide the wingers seemed to be overrunning tho...timing I guess.

Not sure why Lawrence is getting stick; also worried that Tom Curry was broken again.

I'm with Stom on this one. It wasn't that he got beat. It was that there was no confidence that he was ever going to make the heroic last man tackle, even when everyone else saw the telegraphed step coming a mile away.

Thoughts on Ijote as captain? Tough start given the ref but I was definitely getting some Farrell vibes in the looks of disgust when he got a decision against him.

There a huge difference in seeing it and actually covering ground and doing it!

Itoje was ok! Whilst Doris was in O’Keefes ear all game maro was quiet! Especially on irelands ball where their lifters blocked access to the jumper at every lineout! But if the ref misses it and oppo captain does fuck all then it means nothing.

Maro has to be more vocal!

Puja wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 10:08 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:58 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:42 pm
Currys plus Willis. Abso-bloody-lutey!!!

the lineout was an issue and will remain so, so its quite a trade off

Was it though? We lost one through competition and one through LCD fucking up the throw. Every other lineout was clean ball, wasn't it?

Puja

two ball mostly bar one to the tail and several shortened or quick ones, not great attacking ball, plus only attacked their ball once...so Ireland comfortable with a lineout under pressure in the AIs. The two you point to were important as well. So yes, an issue, and as Kay said, after analysis will be under more pressure from France and their many good jumpers.
Are you contending that its not a trade off? Also think that when we tired and line speed dropped off, we took a bit of a physical bashing; maybe Willis starting would help.

switchskier wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 10:21 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:55 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:43 pm

Well he dropped the first one, which is why he ended up panicking behind the try line. He might not be dropped but he might be overtaken. It's a competitive area.

Steward over chasing one break isn't a massive issue. He starts dropping catches I'd be more worried. Can't see him being dropped though Marcus to 15 is an option Vs France if they are going to kick long.

yeah murley touched the first one, which the commentators missed, which is why he tried to run it out.

Thought Steward was ok- missing JGP one on one was no crime, most intl backs should beat most defenders one on one in space and running at pace. When he hit the line out wide the wingers seemed to be overrunning tho...timing I guess.

Not sure why Lawrence is getting stick; also worried that Tom Curry was broken again.

I'm with Stom on this one. It wasn't that he got beat. It was that there was no confidence that he was ever going to make the heroic last man tackle, even when everyone else saw the telegraphed step coming a mile away.

Thoughts on Ijote as captain? Tough start given the ref but I was definitely getting some Farrell vibes in the looks of disgust when he got a decision against him.

I was going to add on Steward that his missed tackles do look bad because he isnt light on his feet. telegraphed? or hindsight...even so much easier to imagine what you'd do from your seat vs in front of you in real time. Smith and Mitchell should be copping more flak.

All skippers give the ref the stink eye....Ireland were all over okeefe like a cheap suit.

Genge
LCD
Stuart
Itoje
Chessum
Hill
Curry (either, other on bench)
Willis

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:55 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:43 pm

Stom wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:26 pm

It's not as if he dropped kicks. He lost his composure and made stupid mistakes. They're two very different things. You don't drop him for that, necessarily, it's not a technical error like Steward consistently makes.

Well he dropped the first one, which is why he ended up panicking behind the try line. He might not be dropped but he might be overtaken. It's a competitive area.

Steward over chasing one break isn't a massive issue. He starts dropping catches I'd be more worried. Can't see him being dropped though Marcus to 15 is an option Vs France if they are going to kick long.

yeah murley touched the first one, which the commentators missed, which is why he tried to run it out.

Thought Steward was ok- missing JGP one on one was no crime, most intl backs should beat most defenders one on one in space and running at pace. When he hit the line out wide the wingers seemed to be overrunning tho...timing I guess.

Not sure why Lawrence is getting stick; also worried that Tom Curry was broken again.

Yeah I thought Lawrence was good, definitely his best performance in an England shirt. Thought Slade was decent as well. If they could turn into an international centre combo that would help massively.

There was definitely some promise amongst the shite today. A few tweaks here and there and we should be able to cause France some problems.

I think TCurry is pretty much always broken to a degree these days, more a case of managing it.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 10:52 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:55 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:43 pm

Well he dropped the first one, which is why he ended up panicking behind the try line. He might not be dropped but he might be overtaken. It's a competitive area.

Steward over chasing one break isn't a massive issue. He starts dropping catches I'd be more worried. Can't see him being dropped though Marcus to 15 is an option Vs France if they are going to kick long.

yeah murley touched the first one, which the commentators missed, which is why he tried to run it out.

Thought Steward was ok- missing JGP one on one was no crime, most intl backs should beat most defenders one on one in space and running at pace. When he hit the line out wide the wingers seemed to be overrunning tho...timing I guess.

Not sure why Lawrence is getting stick; also worried that Tom Curry was broken again.

Yeah I thought Lawrence was good, definitely his best performance in an England shirt. Thought Slade was decent as well. If they could turn into an international centre combo that would help massively.

There was definitely some promise amongst the shite today. A few tweaks here and there and we should be able to cause France some problems.

I think TCurry is pretty much always broken to a degree these days, more a case of managing it.

was more that he was favouring his hip

TheDasher wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 10:50 pm Genge
LCD
Stuart
Itoje
Chessum
Hill
Curry (either, other on bench)
Willis

which Curry you pick imo makes quite a difference.

If Steward had more pace he would allow the attacker the outside then haul them down. As he doesn’t have the pace he over commits and the rest is repeated history.
Lawrence and Slade were good in isolation and in combination.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 10:58 pm If Steward had more pace he would allow the attacker the outside then haul them down. As he doesn’t have the pace he over commits and the rest is repeated history.
Lawrence and Slade were good in isolation and in combination.

do you mean the jgp try?

Are we defending Murley?

For me he looks out of his depth at this level, as much as the ‘tache suggests otherwise.

Martin is far from the enforcer I hoped he to be and Slade just lacks the pace, alas, to truly threaten defences.

And I cannot get my head around how static we are when taking ball into contact.

The biggest issue was the game plan. We picked a back row without a jumper and Martin who isn’t the most athletic but constantly kicked for touch. This meant it was easy for Ireland to pin us back in our 22. We should have kicked long and chased hard.

I don’t think Steward is top interest quality and given France don’t aerially bombard teams I would use that game as an opportunity to play MSmith at 15.

The other changes I would make are Willis for Earl, Chessum for Martin and Heyes for Stuart. I think this gives a better balance of skills across 80 mins.

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:04 pm Are we defending Murley?

For me he looks out of his depth at this level, as much as the ‘tache suggests otherwise.

Martin is far from the enforcer I hoped he to be and Slade just lacks the pace, alas, to truly threaten defences.

And I cannot get my head around how static we are when taking ball into contact.

he made two very bad unforced errors.
indeed, Slade still looks a failed 10
we lack good tight carriers, which then means we dont get over the tackle, so effectively go backwards, next carrier then loses depth and so on

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:00 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 10:58 pm If Steward had more pace he would allow the attacker the outside then haul them down. As he doesn’t have the pace he over commits and the rest is repeated history.
Lawrence and Slade were good in isolation and in combination.

do you mean the jgp try?

That and every other try he’s been skinned for in the same fashion. I can understand the counter argument when he’s up against wingers but it happens far to often and this one was a 9.

SixAndAHalf wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:12 pm The biggest issue was the game plan. We picked a back row without a jumper and Martin who isn’t the most athletic but constantly kicked for touch. This meant it was easy for Ireland to pin us back in our 22. We should have kicked long and chased hard.

agreed with first part, one of the pundits said the same.

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:04 pm Are we defending Murley?

For me he looks out of his depth at this level, as much as the ‘tache suggests otherwise.

Martin is far from the enforcer I hoped he to be and Slade just lacks the pace, alas, to truly threaten defences.

And I cannot get my head around how static we are when taking ball into contact.

Murley had a couple of brain farts but to me showed enough flashes to justify another start. Giving a player one game and binning them makes no sense to me. However if we are going to just use wings to chase kicks, pick Roebuck.

Agree re how static we were and also v narrow. Maybe due to tiredness from long spells defending.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:13 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:00 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 10:58 pm If Steward had more pace he would allow the attacker the outside then haul them down. As he doesn’t have the pace he over commits and the rest is repeated history.
Lawrence and Slade were good in isolation and in combination.

do you mean the jgp try?

That and every other try he’s been skinned for in the same fashion. I can understand the counter argument when he’s up against wingers but it happens far to often and this one was a 9.

what those nippy fast lads whose usp is stepping big lads in the open; re watched it just now, and it wasnt a brilliant looking effort but most 15's would have been toast tbh; he did show him the outside but got his feet all wrong.

Mitchell was the real villain tbh

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:13 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:00 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 10:58 pm If Steward had more pace he would allow the attacker the outside then haul them down. As he doesn’t have the pace he over commits and the rest is repeated history.
Lawrence and Slade were good in isolation and in combination.

do you mean the jgp try?

That and every other try he’s been skinned for in the same fashion. I can understand the counter argument when he’s up against wingers but it happens far to often and this one was a 9.

Steward has shown many times that he lacks agility/mobility. But JGP is a very pacy 9. He was put through with acres of space on both sides and only the FB to beat, and he did put in a perfectly timed sidestep that would have beaten most.

My point is don’t get in a position to be stepped. Show him the outside and haul him down. Steward isn’t quick enough to do that so gets stepped repeatedly. Even BOD agrees with me and I reckon it’s a standard cut up for the oppo prior to any match vs England. As with most players, other than RICH LANE!!!, you have to pick your poison but it’s a glaring flaw to have as a 15.

Well. 4 years waiting for Murley to get a go and that was not what I’d hoped for. So, so gutted for him if that’s the only chance he gets.

The first missed catch was bad, but he did touch it and was right to try and run it back. He did actually get back over the line but not quite sure what happened from there. Still, the drop put the team in a horrible position which really swung the game.

The second was just mad. I’m not quite sure what he thought was happening, as he seemed to follow the ball quite carefully over the line. Maybe thought he’d grazed that one too, but then why wait? Just gutting for those to be the defining moments in a debut cap where he scored a try and had a hand in another.

We can bin him off and then hope the next guy in has a perfect game, but I’d really like to show a bit of faith in what we were trying to do, assuming Borthwick is confident of what that is.

Very strange, frustrating game all round really. Great to claw back the bonus point in the end but it shouldn’t have come to that.

England’s fast start, followed by a long period of looking completely out of it is very tiring to watch. I wonder what effect that has mentally, knowing that a fantastic start means basically nothing for your performance over 80.

SixAndAHalf wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:16 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:04 pm Are we defending Murley?

For me he looks out of his depth at this level, as much as the ‘tache suggests otherwise.

Martin is far from the enforcer I hoped he to be and Slade just lacks the pace, alas, to truly threaten defences.

And I cannot get my head around how static we are when taking ball into contact.

Murley had a couple of brain farts but to me showed enough flashes to justify another start. Giving a player one game and binning them makes no sense to me. However if we are going to just use wings to chase kicks, pick Roebuck.

Agree re how static we were and also v narrow. Maybe due to tiredness from long spells defending.

Fair do’s.

But I would not hesitate to drop him straight out.
Roebuck for me was - much to Mel’s chagrin - always the right call

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:12 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:04 pm Are we defending Murley?

For me he looks out of his depth at this level, as much as the ‘tache suggests otherwise.

Martin is far from the enforcer I hoped he to be and Slade just lacks the pace, alas, to truly threaten defences.

And I cannot get my head around how static we are when taking ball into contact.

he made two very bad unforced errors.
indeed, Slade still looks a failed 10
we lack good tight carriers, which then means we dont get over the tackle, so effectively go backwards, next carrier then loses depth and so on

I know it was another post you made, but can’t be bothered to find it…

Did Murley drop 3? I remember he got one to contest, didn’t win it in the air, but it was a mess, and then there was nothing until his first big duck up, where it feels like he felt like he needed to get hold of the ball because of that earlier “mistake”, when he should have just let it bounce, it was too far away. The other time the ball bounced near him, he had no chance to get close and got done by a bounce. Zero he could have done there. Unless there was one I missed while my stream was playing up. Definitely possible.

I just feel like those are the exact kind of mistakes we’ve seen with England for ages, compounded by a debutant who isn’t an iceman tm.

And it’s something we see time and again: players are scared. They’re not feeling it. They’re hammered on getting x right, so when x goes wrong, they’re worried and they make mistakes. That’s piss poor.

I feel the same way about this England coaching team as I do about steward in 1v1 tackles.

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:39 pm

SixAndAHalf wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:16 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 11:04 pm Are we defending Murley?

For me he looks out of his depth at this level, as much as the ‘tache suggests otherwise.

Martin is far from the enforcer I hoped he to be and Slade just lacks the pace, alas, to truly threaten defences.

And I cannot get my head around how static we are when taking ball into contact.

Murley had a couple of brain farts but to me showed enough flashes to justify another start. Giving a player one game and binning them makes no sense to me. However if we are going to just use wings to chase kicks, pick Roebuck.

Agree re how static we were and also v narrow. Maybe due to tiredness from long spells defending.

Fair do’s.

But I would not hesitate to drop him straight out.
Roebuck for me was - much to Mel’s chagrin - always the right call

We could put Campese on one wing and Rokococo on the other and it would make sweet fa difference. Lipstick on a pig.