RugbyRebels

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:

At an individual level I don't think one can look to associate intelligence with education, when however you've got such low levels of attainment in education across a wide group though it's a different thing. This might actually be one of the problems, that we've broken society down more than used to be the case when working class was a much wider group, not everyone who could get out (allowing get out could be construed as pejorative in this) from the working class is out but a huge number are up into the middle classes and what's left is rather what's left.

That doesn't mean we get to ignore what't left, and it doesn't mean we should ignore their votes, it's just deeply saddening all-round that there are so many idiots and that they've voted in a fashion which will not much help them anyway whilst pissing off a huge number of others. At least it's harder to see how a lower tax environment with lower levels of regulation and standards is going to help much at the bottom, whether it's in wages and worker rights or in such as allowing US food companies to sell us their poisons, and the other pro Brexit camp view (that of say Corbyn) that being out of the EU will allow the state to take back control in areas it should be running doesn't suggest too bright a future either.

Spin it how you like, saying people in poor working class areas are retards is not much better than saying all Muslims are terrorists and all Polish are health tourists. The bigotry that you, correctly, no doubt accused Farage and his ilk of is not too far from your broad painting brush. There are large areas of the country where intelligent kids are let down by the system and/or their family and have to leave education for various reasons despite their academic abilities.

As for your second para, let's see how this unfolds before we start throwing around insults. It may be that the overall tax base diminishes because financial services and service and tech exports diminish and jobs are lost in The City, but the idiots won't complain if their deprived, ex-industrial town or port starts to see more jobs. I'm pissed off that my long weekend in New York and two weeks in France are going to cost me quite a bit more but I doubt the retards care. It could also all go spectacularly as trade deals are a huge success and Mediterranean debt and the flaws in Euro drag too heavily on the EU, and the idiots will not be the idiots. Of course, it could all go to s**t and if it does feel free to call them idiots. I've no doubt that is exactly what you are calling all the economists who predicted the economy would tank post a brexit vote.

Some of the academic qualifications in those areas which voted Brexit are lamentable, and not just 'cause it delivers the sort of cretin who voted for Brexit. There's just no way you can have attainment levels that low and not be considered a little dim, I'm sure there's potential in those areas being overlooked, and I'm sure there will be some exceptional individuals who are securing degrees and whatnot, but even then the levels taken as a whole are pitiful.

The actual interesting part of this is how much can standards be raised, and how much is that's what's left at the bottom is just actually what's left at the bottom with many having move into middle class status leaving those less able and less determined behind. I'd be far from giving up on such groups, but there's no point ignoring that areas have less than 10% of people in the area with degrees, not when so many have been going to Uni for so long. And the next interesting part is to what extent should those with more ability and drive to succeed be able live without the troubling vista of those left behind intruding on their existence, whether it's in the rise of gated communities, concentration of wealth and all the rest of it.

We've just been handed a kick in the privates by those who feel a lot of anger at the current situation, but whilst their intelligence is up for debate, unless like me you're simply happy to label them thick in something of a broad brush approach, no one is suggesting their votes don't count and that it should be left to their 'betters' to make decisions. So we're doing what the morons voted for, even though I seriously doubt it'll deliver what they're after, what they're after are people to raise up those areas, and really anyone able to raise those areas up is more likely to be moving out of those areas seems the problem.

And it's way too early to be making any sort of analysis of a post Brexit world from an economic point of view, partly we're still in the EU, partly it takes years to see the outcome of events, and even then it'll not be easy to separate out the reality from what would've happened anyway. Certainly anyone saying the sky would fall in was being daft, Osborne's pretend budget was daft. Myself I don't think the economy will tank, I think in a number of areas we'll see lower levels of investment and that'll hurt the economy for years if not decades to come as you can't get those chances back, we might be able to get deals similar to those we had with the EU and through the EU but I can't see how one surpasses the world's biggest trading block especially given how geographic trade is, and I do have a number of concerns about in worrying times politicians being able to push through some lower levels of regulation and rights. It's all very well saying something like MiFID is a pain in the arse, and it is, and that much of it misses the point (imo) but lord knows where we'd be without it, and I wouldn't overlook you can walk on British beaches and swim in our seas rather more than one could pretty much down to regulation, and we avoid the worst of the US food industry with our regs. I'd also be concerned that post Brexit we'll be locked evermore into an economy based on debt, but tbh I doubt we'd have reversed that thinking had we stayed in, whether this part gets worse I don't know. There's also, and this is one of my preferred descriptions of economics, that any decisions on the economy you make are a bit like throwing a dart at the dartboard when you're blindfolded, the dartboard is constantly moving, and it'll take 3-5 years for your dart to land.

cashead wrote:Shut the fuck up, you retards.

Digby wrote:Even if Corbyn goes will they replace him with anyone credible given the lurch in membership and the pressure being applied by some loons?

Mellsblue wrote:Clive Lewis is positioning himself beautifully. Timing his resignation from the shadow cabinet for maximum impact whilst garnering as much media coverage as possible.

Sandydragon wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Clive Lewis is positioning himself beautifully. Timing his resignation from the shadow cabinet for maximum impact whilst garnering as much media coverage as possible.

The big problem as I see it is that if someone quits over the 3 line whip for the Brexit vote, then how do they appear to the Labour heartlands outside the South East? London based Labour supporters may be pro-EU, but the northern heartlands are more concerned with the immigration issue than those in London are. Could this cede ground to UKIP?

Donny osmond wrote:David Milliband come in, your time is up

Sandydragon wrote:The left might get bored after an election wipeout and allow a more centralist leader to take over who will spend years rebuilding the party.

rowan wrote:

rowan wrote:Britons could face a backlash

Jeremy Corbyn has condemned Theresa May’s “Hunger Games approach to Brexit” after a document obtained by the Guardian warned that British nationals living on the continent could expect a backlash as a consequence of the government’s treatment of foreigners since the EU referendum.

The leaked EU assessment of the legal impact of Britain’s withdrawal says the 1.2 million Britons living in the EU could pay a penalty for the prime minister’s failure to offer a secure future for EU nationals in the UK.


The internal document drawn up by the European parliament’s legal affairs committee says it will be down to each member state to decide whether British citizens are allowed to carry on living within their respective borders after 2019, but adds: “The fact that it appears to be particularly difficult for foreign nationals, even if married to UK nationals or born in the UK, to acquire permanent residence status or British nationality may colour member states’ approach to this matter.”

Corbyn said the document pointed to “the human cost of a Tory-style Brexit. Families, jobs and homes are all in the balance.” He added: “There must be an end to this Hunger Games approach to Brexit negotiations, which gives no consideration to EU nationals in our country or British nationals living abroad.”

The Labour leader called on the government to make a commitment that EU nationals currently living in the UK would be free to continue to do so, saying the failure to do so amounted to “playing political games with people’s lives”.

As yet the British government has refused to make such a commitment. As a result there has been almost a 50% increase in the number of EU citizens applying for permanent residency documentation since the vote on 23 June. The number of applications rose from 36,555 in the three months to June 2016 to 56,024 in the three months to September, according to the latest figures.

EU nationals say that to obtain permanent residency cards they have to complete an 85-page form requiring huge files of documentation, including P60s for five years, historical utility bills and a diary of all the occasions they have left the country since settling in the UK. Some have received letters inviting them to prepare to leave the country after failing to tick a box on a form.

A cross-party group of the European parliament has established a taskforce to investigate the complaints, and a parliamentary hearing is expected to be announced in the coming days, to which a UK minister will be asked to give evidence.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -in-the-eu