If they let Kyle Rittenhouse off for crossing state lines and shooting activists...
wow. two wrongs and all that.
They’re the ones who set the precedent, and unlike the BLM activists, Thompson was a significant part of a predatory industry that caused significant social harm. You don’t rise to the level of CEO without some blood on your hands - especially the US for-profit medical industry. If you’re expecting any sympathy for him from me, I’d suggest you look elsewhere.
Re: America
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 6:31 pm
by Banquo
I suppose I should be more surprised.
Re: America
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 8:50 pm
by cashead
Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2024 6:31 pm
I suppose I should be more surprised.
Spare us the self-righteous indignation over the death of a leading figure in an industry built on profiteering off of suffering.
Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2024 6:31 pm
I suppose I should be more surprised.
Spare us the self-righteous indignation over the death of a leading figure in an industry built on profiteering off of suffering.
self righteousness being your domain obvs. I'm not so much indignant over his death, as repugnant as cold blooded murder is, as bemused by the reaction- but not sure why I am tbh.
Re: America
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2024 3:04 am
by cashead
Why do you think there is so little sympathy for Thompson and his ilk?
The guy had a note explaining everything on him…I reckon he wanted to get caught. Otherwise why still have the silencer?
Agreed. He wants his moment in court. Keep the evidence on him, but offer no resistance and make sure he is in a public place. He wants to face a jury and have his 15 minutes of fame.
I won't condone pre-meditated assassination, murder is still murder and if we don't condemn it then it's impossible to be taken seriously when someone does the same in a cause that's less to anyone's liking. This might open up a discussion on healthcare, but I suspect it wont get far.
Fuck Brian Thompson and the other members of the predator class.
I'm not going to shed any tears over a mass murderer getting shot.
If you accept political violence for one cause then you have to accept it for every cause. Nope, you can keep that.
Re: America
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2024 10:06 am
by Puja
A woman has been charged in Florida with "threats to conduct an act of terrorism" after finishing a call with the insurance company once again denying her claim with, "Delay, deny, depose. You people are next.”
I'm assuming the arrest of every dickhead that crowed, "Your body, my choice" at a woman after Trump's victory, is imminent on that precedent...
Puja
Re: America
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2024 10:24 am
by Puja
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2024 10:04 am
If you accept political violence for one cause then you have to accept it for every cause. Nope, you can keep that.
That's quite clearly not true. Acts of political violence are not a single entity, all morally equivalent and without nuance. One does not have to accept September 11th in order to celebrate a revolution against a dictator.
I don't know I am quite on board with cheering on an assassination, but it's undeniable that Thompson killed thousands every year, with deliberate choices to end lives because it would make him more money. He was a mass-murderer, who was immune to any consequences, and he would've kept on killing. I might not be cheering on an assassin yet, but I have no sympathy for his death.
There has also been a notable statistical change in the number of declines since it happened, as well as igniting a public movement that may yet result in greater change. Obviously it is far too early to see how this falls out in the long run, but I thoroughly disagree that I am forced to regard every bit of political violence as equivalent.
Puja
Re: America
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2024 11:31 am
by Stom
Look, he's on trial for murder. He committed murder. He broke the rules. It should both be separated from the backstory, and also the backstory should be acknowledged.
So he should get the minimum sentence for murder.
BUT, the American people really should use this as a means to get off their arses and riot until the industry is destroyed.
Re: America
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2024 11:37 am
by Banquo
cashead wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2024 3:04 am
Why do you think there is so little sympathy for Thompson and his ilk?
I'd have thought this would make it quite clear:
Yes, always convinced by a twice posted internet meme
I get why a lot of (in my view) pretty odd people are celebrating the murder of someone who seems to be a lightning rod for all that’s wrong in US Healthcare. I was just bemused by some on here apparently supporting it and finding it ‘good’ or ‘funny’ or defending it. I then reflected on why I was bemused in the first place. Each to their own, live and let live I guess, unless you disagree in which case, get yer gun out!
cashead wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2024 3:04 am
Why do you think there is so little sympathy for Thompson and his ilk?
I'd have thought this would make it quite clear:
Yes, always convinced by a twice posted internet meme
I get why a lot of (in my view) pretty odd people are celebrating the murder of someone who seems to be a lightning rod for all that’s wrong in US Healthcare. I was just bemused by some on here apparently supporting it and finding it ‘good’ or ‘funny’ or defending it. I then reflected on why I was bemused in the first place. Each to their own, live and let live I guess, unless you disagree in which case, get yer gun out!
I agree...to an extent.
I feel sorry for the guy's family. I don't feel sorry for him.
We should always come back to that old chestnut:
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
His benefiting from the system was an implicit acceptance of it. Which is wrong. The system is inhuman.
I still believe the murderer should be punished for...well, murder...but I also feel like there should be mitigating circumstances here. But it lies on the American people to make a decision on what they want to do.
Re: America
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2024 12:03 pm
by Which Tyler
Stom wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2024 11:31 am
Look, he's on trial for murder. He committed murder. He broke the rules. It should both be separated from the backstory, and also the backstory should be acknowledged.
So he should get the minimum sentence for murder.
BUT, the American people really should use this as a means to get off their arses and riot until the industry is destroyed.
Yup.
Assuming it's not all a plant, then he's clearly guilty of pre-meditated murder. He gets his day in court, his lawyer gets to make all of his points for him, under public scrutiny, and the jury will have to decide between guilty or jury nullification (which to my limited understanding, isn't relevant here) or "not guilty" on the principle of an unforgivable procedural fuck up but the cops / FBI. Not guilty because you sympathise with his cause would be a utterly ridiculous and condemnable.
I'm hoping for a huge irony coming from this, with a massive popular opinion for single-payer, and Trump seeing the way the wind is blowing, and forcing it through in order to be popular.
Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2024 11:37 am
Yes, always convinced by a twice posted internet meme
I get why a lot of (in my view) pretty odd people are celebrating the murder of someone who seems to be a lightning rod for all that’s wrong in US Healthcare. I was just bemused by some on here apparently supporting it and finding it ‘good’ or ‘funny’ or defending it. I then reflected on why I was bemused in the first place. Each to their own, live and let live I guess, unless you disagree in which case, get yer gun out!
I agree...to an extent.
I feel sorry for the guy's family. I don't feel sorry for him.
We should always come back to that old chestnut:
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
His benefiting from the system was an implicit acceptance of it. Which is wrong. The system is inhuman.
I still believe the murderer should be punished for...well, murder...but I also feel like there should be mitigating circumstances here. But it lies on the American people to make a decision on what they want to do.
Good post - very much agree.
I would go further than saying that Thompson merely benefited from the system - he was an integral part of the system and it was his leadership choices and policies that were directly responsible for thousands of deaths. Just because he did it at a remove from his victims, at the stroke of a pen, doesn't make him any less of a murderer than if he went and turned the life-support machines off in person. He made decisions that killed people, knowing that they would kill people, because those decisions made him lots of money.
That doesn't make an assassination correct, but I feel it is important to emphasise that Thompson was an unrepentent mass-murderer who got rich from his sins and had no intention of stopping, and was beyond any legal punishment or restriction. If there is a hell, he's currently burning in it. He killed a lot more people than Bin Laden did and a lot of the public speakers complaining about the celebrating of this had no issues raising a glass to that.
Stom wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2024 11:31 am
Look, he's on trial for murder. He committed murder. He broke the rules. It should both be separated from the backstory, and also the backstory should be acknowledged.
So he should get the minimum sentence for murder.
BUT, the American people really should use this as a means to get off their arses and riot until the industry is destroyed.
. Not guilty because you sympathise with his cause would be a utterly ridiculous and condemnable.
Cut to the chase better than me.
Re: America
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2024 11:01 pm
by Zhivago
What's all this fuss about drones? Mass hysteria or what?
Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2024 11:37 am
Yes, always convinced by a twice posted internet meme
I get why a lot of (in my view) pretty odd people are celebrating the murder of someone who seems to be a lightning rod for all that’s wrong in US Healthcare. I was just bemused by some on here apparently supporting it and finding it ‘good’ or ‘funny’ or defending it. I then reflected on why I was bemused in the first place. Each to their own, live and let live I guess, unless you disagree in which case, get yer gun out!
I agree...to an extent.
I feel sorry for the guy's family. I don't feel sorry for him.
We should always come back to that old chestnut:
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
His benefiting from the system was an implicit acceptance of it. Which is wrong. The system is inhuman.
I still believe the murderer should be punished for...well, murder...but I also feel like there should be mitigating circumstances here. But it lies on the American people to make a decision on what they want to do.
Good post - very much agree.
I would go further than saying that Thompson merely benefited from the system - he was an integral part of the system and it was his leadership choices and policies that were directly responsible for thousands of deaths. Just because he did it at a remove from his victims, at the stroke of a pen, doesn't make him any less of a murderer than if he went and turned the life-support machines off in person. He made decisions that killed people, knowing that they would kill people, because those decisions made him lots of money.
That doesn't make an assassination correct, but I feel it is important to emphasise that Thompson was an unrepentent mass-murderer who got rich from his sins and had no intention of stopping, and was beyond any legal punishment or restriction. If there is a hell, he's currently burning in it. He killed a lot more people than Bin Laden did and a lot of the public speakers complaining about the celebrating of this had no issues raising a glass to that.
Puja
This is an important point. If Thompson had been a mass-killer who killed with a gun (but was similarly not prosecutable for the resulting deaths) Mangione would probably be considered a hero by most people. So if I was on the jury I would be thinking about how close Thompson was to this hypothetical gun-wielding mass-murderer. Is he effectively the same? Are there morally important distinctions? Could this be the basis of a kind of justified homicide defence? (I'm pretty sure it wouldn't fly as a real defence in court, but you could argue that it's a moral defence.)
Obviously this isn't the only consideration. Maybe acquitting him would cause too much damage to the legal fabric of the USA (which is already in a dire state).
Re: America
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2024 12:09 am
by cashead
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2024 12:03 pm
Not guilty because you sympathise with his cause would be a utterly ridiculous and condemnable.
If only the American judicial system not provided a precedent.
Luigi Mangione wrote:
To the Feds, I'll keep this short, because I do respect what you do for our country. To save you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn't working with anyone. This was fairly trivial: some elementary social engineering, basic CAD, a lot of patience. The spiral notebook, if present, has some straggling notes and To Do lists that illuminate the gist of it. My tech is pretty locked down because I work in engineering so probably not much info there. I do apologize for any strife of traumas but it had to be done. Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming. A reminder: the US has the #1 most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly #42 in life expectancy. United is the [indecipherable] largest company in the US by market cap, behind only Apple, Google, Walmart. It has grown and grown, but as our life expectancy? No the reality is, these [indecipherable] have simply gotten too powerful, and they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allwed them to get away with it. Obviously the problem is more complex, but I do not have space, and frankly I do not pretend to be the most qualified person to lay out the full argument. But many have illuminated the corruption and greed (e.g.: Rosenthal, Moore), decades ago and the problems simply remain. It is not an issue of awareness at this point, but clearly power games at play. Evidently I am the first to face it with such brutal honesty.
Here's his manifesto, published on Substack by Ken Klippenstein. Other outlets had received a copy, and while they're happy to quote from it, have opted to withhold it. Draw your own conclusions as to why.
