Brexit delayed

[Banquo]

Is Gove also under scrutiny, and Gisella Stuart?

Farage sadly can't be touched on this.

[Mellsblue]

The ridiculous thing is if Vote Leave had used the, I think, correct-ish £270mil a week it sends the same message. Most people they are targeting aren’t suddenly going to think ‘well, that’s not very much’.

[Which Tyler]

Yup, it was a pointless lie

[Digby]

The ridiculous thing is if Vote Leave had used the, I think, correct-ish £270mil a week it sends the same message. Most people they are targeting aren’t suddenly going to think ‘well, that’s not very much’.

The bigger question is why when all's said and done and the real figure is much larger and works substantially in our favour that 52% still thought bollocks to that we'll be richer by taking action that makes us measurably worse off

[Mellsblue]

The ridiculous thing is if Vote Leave had used the, I think, correct-ish £270mil a week it sends the same message. Most people they are targeting aren’t suddenly going to think ‘well, that’s not very much’.

The bigger question is why when all's said and done and the real figure is much larger and works substantially in our favour that 52% still thought bollocks to that we'll be richer by taking action that makes us measurably worse off

I thought you’d already decided it was because they’re thick and racist.

[morepork]

270 million squid for what?

[Banquo]

270 million squid for what?

Gross payment per week to be a member of the EU. Net figure is a lot lower (subsidies, rebates). Factor in trade benefits, collaborations, workers contributing to our economy and we are net winners. Ya'd think that was quite easy to sell.

[Stom]

I'm in the UK at the minute, arrived on Thursday (but didn't vote). And wow. The amount of misinformation surrounding Brexit is just insane. I think Owen Jones DID sum it up well about May'd departure garnering sympathy. Why does she deserve any sympathy? She failed at her job, and didn't fail at her job with her head held high...she just failed, badly.

I always say you should listen to what the other side say...but my family just shout COMMUNIST! over Corbyn, even when he actually makes valid points (which he does do, occasionally).

The papers are absolutely incredible. The headlines are all spun beyond belief to get people to believe a certain PoV, or maintain a certain set of beliefs. Even on the non-political stories. I just glanced at one in The Times headlined:

Addict Rapes and Kills Backpacker. (I'm paraphrasing).

Why addict? Why is that the lead word? Why is that important? It's the idea of creating conflict, of labeling people and of sowing discontent among communities.

[morepork]

270 million squid for what?

Gross payment per week to be a member of the EU. Net figure is a lot lower (subsidies, rebates). Factor in trade benefits, collaborations, workers contributing to our economy and we are net winners. Ya'd think that was quite easy to sell.

Is that figure based on GDP?

[Banquo]

270 million squid for what?

Gross payment per week to be a member of the EU. Net figure is a lot lower (subsidies, rebates). Factor in trade benefits, collaborations, workers contributing to our economy and we are net winners. Ya'd think that was quite easy to sell.

Is that figure based on GDP?

Formally- Each country's payment is divided into three parts: a fixed percentage of gross national income (GNI), customs duties collected on behalf of the EU (known as "traditional own resources") and a percentage of VAT income. Its a variable number, offset by an immediate rebate and subsidies as above. Looks like our net 'outlay' is c £9bn, which is frankly fck all against the benefits of membership, and fck all in terms of spending and GDP. This perspective has been somewhat lost.

Separately, the EU's 'books' are somewhat opaque which is something Eurosceptics do have a valid point over.

[Stom]

Gross payment per week to be a member of the EU. Net figure is a lot lower (subsidies, rebates). Factor in trade benefits, collaborations, workers contributing to our economy and we are net winners. Ya'd think that was quite easy to sell.

Is that figure based on GDP?

Formally- Each country's payment is divided into three parts: a fixed percentage of gross national income (GNI), customs duties collected on behalf of the EU (known as "traditional own resources") and a percentage of VAT income. Its a variable number, offset by an immediate rebate and subsidies as above. Looks like our net 'outlay' is c £9bn, which is frankly fck all against the benefits of membership, and fck all in terms of spending and GDP. This perspective has been somewhat lost.

Separately, the EU's 'books' are somewhat opaque which is something Eurosceptics do have a valid point over.

The EU really could make it easier to like them... But it does seem wedded to some old fashioned political principles...

[Banquo]

Is that figure based on GDP?

Formally- Each country's payment is divided into three parts: a fixed percentage of gross national income (GNI), customs duties collected on behalf of the EU (known as "traditional own resources") and a percentage of VAT income. Its a variable number, offset by an immediate rebate and subsidies as above. Looks like our net 'outlay' is c £9bn, which is frankly fck all against the benefits of membership, and fck all in terms of spending and GDP. This perspective has been somewhat lost.

Separately, the EU's 'books' are somewhat opaque which is something Eurosceptics do have a valid point over.

The EU really could make it easier to like them... But it does seem wedded to some old fashioned political principles...

It needs massive reform, more transparency, less bureaucracy and probably to ditch the euro and the daft bits of integration /running interference on other democracies (sovereignty bollocks) and membership criteria. Other than that, and uncooking the books, its fine

[Digby]

The ridiculous thing is if Vote Leave had used the, I think, correct-ish £270mil a week it sends the same message. Most people they are targeting aren’t suddenly going to think ‘well, that’s not very much’.

The bigger question is why when all's said and done and the real figure is much larger and works substantially in our favour that 52% still thought bollocks to that we'll be richer by taking action that makes us measurably worse off

I thought you’d already decided it was because they’re thick and racist.

I am in some rare instances not correct, or not wholly correct, so whilst it's overwhelmingly likely it's down to folk being thick and/or racist there's some small chance other factors are at work

[Mellsblue]

Addict Rapes and Kills Backpacker. (I'm paraphrasing).

Why addict? Why is that the lead word? Why is that important? It's the idea of creating conflict, of labeling people and of sowing discontent among communities.

Because it is the central pillar of his defence. It’s pretty crucial to the story. He also didn’t kill the backpacker. He just abducted her and repeatedly raped her over the course of a month, with express intention of getting her pregnant - he took her birth control pills off her - so that she couldn’t leave him.
I think the fact he’s an addict is central to the reporting of the case and, even if you disagree, I’m sure you feel little sympathy for him having his reputation dragged through the mud.

As for Corbyn making a valid point, was that the question he received from Stom who lives in Budapest that he raised at last week’s PMQs?

[morepork]

Jaysus. That got dark quickly.


John Cleese for PM anyone?

[Digby]

Jaysus. That got dark quickly.


John Cleese for PM anyone?

He's massively pro Brexit

[Puja]

Hates immigrants so much that he's left his home country to go live in the Caribbean.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Recently in trouble for saying that London isn't English anymore (which I assumed was Morepork's reference)

[morepork]

Pretty much. I had no idea he was such a stick in the mud. Maybe he caught something while living in America.

[Which Tyler]

Anyone else just waiting for Larry Mouser to announce his leadership bid?
TBH, I've probably more faith in him than any of the other candidates.

[Digby]

Larry has some skeletons in the closest, duck skeletons but nonetheless...

[Puja]

Esther McVey has made sure everyone's aware of what they'd be getting with her by sticking her oar into the Birmingham LGBT lessons and saying, "Parents Know Best!"

I shouldn't really have expected anything better from someone like her, but it's still depressing to think that this kind of stance will gain her support, not lose it.

Puja

[Banquo]

Esther McVey has made sure everyone's aware of what they'd be getting with her by sticking her oar into the Birmingham LGBT lessons and saying, "Parents Know Best!"

I shouldn't really have expected anything better from someone like her, but it's still depressing to think that this kind of stance will gain her support, not lose it.

Puja

She's another monster exposed to the sunlight by Brexit bollox.

Though I heard the 'mediator' appointed by the council earlier on, and he didn't sound like much of a mediator to me, basically said the protesting parent were idiots; and whilst that might be the case (and no idea of the ins and outs), its not a helpful public position for mediation purposes.

[Mellsblue]

Did the mediator say McVey is an idiot? I’ve honestly no idea why she’s put herself forward. On the plus side, Leadsom’s campaign isn’t gaining any traction.

[Banquo]

Did the mediator say McVey is an idiot? I’ve honestly no idea why she’s put herself forward. On the plus side, Leadsom’s campaign isn’t gaining any traction.

I'm waiting for Nadine to throw her hat in