England v Scotland

[Buggaluggs]

11 points from 15 penalties. I'll concede that they managed Russell's binning well and shut us out of their half effectively, but they still don't know how to score.

This. Scotland should have had at least 9 more points.

[Tobylerone]

The Scots are sounding a bit bullish, which makes me nervous as always before the 6 Nations. I'm concerned the Sarries players will be off the pace. I really feel England should be looking to hand out a paving since after the last two results there's a risk of self-belief emerging within this group of Scottish players and that can't lead anywhere good.

They’re always bullish before the 6N and most of the time, they go on to finish in the bottom half of the table.

They have a decent squad and on their day, they can be very good, but I’m not sure how good they really are?

In recent times, they’ve beaten a poor Welsh team and a French team that would probably have won but for a dumb red card. They also beat Italy, which is almost a given, but only by 17 points.

I’m not dismissing them as a threat. Watson, Russell and Hogg are on song, they can be very dangerous and van der Merwe is a great addition, despite not being in the least bit Scottish.

That said, their midfield is weak and for this 6N, they are missing their first and second choice hookers, which will inevitably affect the quality of their set piece.

I’m definitely not complacent about it, but I would be disappointed if we were to lose.

Sweet.

And a glass of Moscato fizz for afters..

[Mellsblue]

Chris Harris is like Conrad Smith and Mike Tindall in one.

A poor man’s Matt Hopper?

[Raggs]

So, we seemed to pick a running 12, and a non-attacking minded fly half, and proceeded to play a poor kicking game. Then when we needed to run, we took off our running 12, but brought on our attacking fly half?

Discipline was very bad, and we were awful in kick tennis. May had an off day, which didn't help either.

[Son of Mathonwy]

11 points from 15 penalties. I'll concede that they managed Russell's binning well and shut us out of their half effectively, but they still don't know how to score.

This. Scotland should have had at least 9 more points.

That's coz Russell's not very good. And Scotland managed his binning well for the same reason. Russell's the random man, could do something great, could do something awful at any given moment. That's why the commentators love him.

[twitchy]

Easter reckons we look vulnerable.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/why-nick ... t-england/

[Sandydragon]

This has been coming for a long time. When allowed to play their game, England are very good. But Scotland got under their skin and stopped them. With plan A gone, there was no plan B.

Youngs is no where near good enough and Farrell under pressure is a liability. Billy V was largely anonymous except for his yellow card.

But when Ford came on, his first two actions were to kick. This feels like a game plan and there is no alternative.with ball in hand it was just a succession of one up runners then kick.

Eddie Jones seems to have a cycle where he makes a quick improvement and then it can go a bit wrong. Is it time for a change?

[Gloskarlos]

Eddie can do one, as can Farrell. Pointless kicking, over reliance on out of form Sarries players. Terrible tactics.

I have been drinking, but that fecking sucked.

[Mikey Brown]

We surely won’t have a bum clencher like two years ago! If England doesn’t win by at least 20, I’m a Dutchman! (even with whatsisname at 10!)

Why? We've got Farrell at 10, a newbie at 12, a guy who's not good enough at fullback. Relative newcomers at loosehead and tighthead too.

I'm vaguely confident of a win, but a 20+ point win sounds unlikely against Scotland at the best of times.

I’m not buying that.

I think with all this talk on the build up Russell is due an absolute howler anyway.

lol

[p/d]

Eddie can do one, as can Farrell. Pointless kicking, over reliance on out of form Sarries players. Terrible tactics.

I have been drinking, but that fecking sucked.

Agree. And I haven’t been drinking.

Best side won. Scotland’s problem is not turning territory into points. Today they could have bought a house in our 22, yet the silly feckers would still forget to put out the bins.

[Peej]

I mean even England's kit was shite

[Digby]

There are days when you perform like the Vienna Philharmonic, and there are days when you perform like a drunk Billy Ray Cyrus repeating one dumb song over and over and over and....

I suppose it was bad enough that in the 57th minute I came to realisation I hoped Scotland would win, not because they were any good, but we were just so bad we deserved a points deduction. Sadly I doubt any lessons will be taken from this, the failings in discipline are long standing, and yet again there was barely a penalty given away which even made any sense out of a stupidly high total count.

Early I'd thought Italy atrocious, but at least they have the excuse their potential isn't that high, we did far worse in suggesting what might be in some all too brief moments only to piss it up the wall in pathetic fashion, more of a piss it dribbling down by the feet not even reaching the wall fashion I suppose

[Cameo]

11 points from 15 penalties. I'll concede that they managed Russell's binning well and shut us out of their half effectively, but they still don't know how to score.

This. Scotland should have had at least 9 more points.

That's coz Russell's not very good. And Scotland managed his binning well for the same reason. Russell's the random man, could do something great, could do something awful at any given moment. That's why the commentators love him.

You're entitled to your view and I don't think he was great today but he showed the benefit of a ten who at least tries to read a game. He actually chose when to kick and when not to, and when he chose to kick he mixed it up.

A lot of his mistakes were also when we had advantage. I swear he would get a lot less abuse if he just put up a big bomb every time we were due a penalty.

[Oakboy]

There are days when you perform like the Vienna Philharmonic, and there are days when you perform like a drunk Billy Ray Cyrus repeating one dumb song over and over and over and....

I suppose it was bad enough that in the 57th minute I came to realisation I hoped Scotland would win, not because they were any good, but we were just so bad we deserved a points deduction. Sadly I doubt any lessons will be taken from this, the failings in discipline are long standing, and yet again there was barely a penalty given away which even made any sense out of a stupidly high total count.

Early I'd thought Italy atrocious, but at least they have the excuse their potential isn't that high, we did far worse in suggesting what might be in some all too brief moments only to piss it up the wall in pathetic fashion, more of a piss it dribbling down by the feet not even reaching the wall fashion I suppose

Diggers, I fully agree with your second paragraph. Yesterday's defeat was NOT a blip. It ws the culmination of a period of poor management since SA thumped us. That was the shock, not yesterday, despite all the excuse-peddling in recent months. Ever since that day Jones has floundered.

His body language at pitchside mid-way through the second half yesterday was so revealing. He simply did not know what to do. The 'finishers', apart from Lawes, brought his confusion on to the pitch with them. Arguably, that was the most condemnatory factor of all. Any manager who makes unforced changes for the worse cannot be defended, IMO.

[Oakboy]

This. Scotland should have had at least 9 more points.

That's coz Russell's not very good. And Scotland managed his binning well for the same reason. Russell's the random man, could do something great, could do something awful at any given moment. That's why the commentators love him.

You're entitled to your view and I don't think he was great today but he showed the benefit of a ten who at least tries to read a game. He actually chose when to kick and when not to, and when he chose to kick he mixed it up.

A lot of his mistakes were also when we had advantage. I swear he would get a lot less abuse if he just put up a big bomb every time we were due a penalty.

The side with the better FH won. It was not the whole story by a huge margin but it was a factor.

[Stom]

That's coz Russell's not very good. And Scotland managed his binning well for the same reason. Russell's the random man, could do something great, could do something awful at any given moment. That's why the commentators love him.

You're entitled to your view and I don't think he was great today but he showed the benefit of a ten who at least tries to read a game. He actually chose when to kick and when not to, and when he chose to kick he mixed it up.

A lot of his mistakes were also when we had advantage. I swear he would get a lot less abuse if he just put up a big bomb every time we were due a penalty.

The side with the better FH won. It was not the whole story by a huge margin but it was a factor.

I disagree. Scotland would have won that if you swapped Russell for the Italian 10. Scotland won that game because they played to the ref. They kept the ball unless the kick was absolutely on. That was literally it. Their hooker and Redpath aside, I'm not sure I can remember anyone making a break. They just played the numbers until the ref blew up for their penalty.

Perhaps they have the advantage of playing with that ref regularly, unlike us (which is an interesting question: should matches between the celtic nations and us have a French or Italian ref who doesn't ref in the Celtic league every week?), but that doesn't excuse our sheer dumb headedness.

[fivepointer]

In fairness, Scotland had the better players in positions 1-15. I dont think a single England player were better than their Scottish counterparts.
We were that awful.

[Cameo]

You're entitled to your view and I don't think he was great today but he showed the benefit of a ten who at least tries to read a game. He actually chose when to kick and when not to, and when he chose to kick he mixed it up.

A lot of his mistakes were also when we had advantage. I swear he would get a lot less abuse if he just put up a big bomb every time we were due a penalty.

The side with the better FH won. It was not the whole story by a huge margin but it was a factor.

I disagree. Scotland would have won that if you swapped Russell for the Italian 10. Scotland won that game because they played to the ref. They kept the ball unless the kick was absolutely on. That was literally it. Their hooker and Redpath aside, I'm not sure I can remember anyone making a break. They just played the numbers until the ref blew up for their penalty.

Perhaps they have the advantage of playing with that ref regularly, unlike us (which is an interesting question: should matches between the celtic nations and us have a French or Italian ref who doesn't ref in the Celtic league every week?), but that doesn't excuse our sheer dumb headedness.

You, or someone else, had made this point a few times about the team with the ball getting penalties. Last time I checked, part of the decision about when to keep the ball and when to kick it away was the FH's. To me, Russell's skills weren't at his peak today but his decision making was very good.

I did enjoy Garbissi too if that was the point you were making.

[Stom]

The side with the better FH won. It was not the whole story by a huge margin but it was a factor.

I disagree. Scotland would have won that if you swapped Russell for the Italian 10. Scotland won that game because they played to the ref. They kept the ball unless the kick was absolutely on. That was literally it. Their hooker and Redpath aside, I'm not sure I can remember anyone making a break. They just played the numbers until the ref blew up for their penalty.

Perhaps they have the advantage of playing with that ref regularly, unlike us (which is an interesting question: should matches between the celtic nations and us have a French or Italian ref who doesn't ref in the Celtic league every week?), but that doesn't excuse our sheer dumb headedness.

You, or someone else, had made this point a few times about the team with the ball getting penalties. Last time I checked, part of the decision about when to keep the ball and when to kick it away was the FH's. To me, Russell's skills weren't at his peak today but his decision making was very good.

I did enjoy Garbissi too if that was the point you were making.

I just picked the 2nd weakest FH in the competition, as Scotland would have probably lost with Farrell at 10...

[twitchy]

Look at this.

[Puja]

Look at this.

Ugh. That is Farrell vs Ford in an image - Ford looks and decides whether the predetermined plan needs to be implemented in this situation, Farrell just applies it.

There was another moment, midway through the second half, where we had a lineout in their half, made a good carry up the middle, quick recycle and Farrell grubbered despite having 5-on-3 and the first bit of quick ball in ages. To add insult to injury, the grubber went straight to Hogg who belted it down to roll out for a lineout in our 22.

And another in the first half where we were 4-on-3 down the right with quick ball and the Scottish winger actually started retreating before Farrell had even got the ball, leaving it 4-on-2, because he was that certain that the kick was coming. He wasn't wrong and gathered comfortably.

Puja

[fivepointer]

These kind of things happened routinely during the 6ns and the autumn games. Its not a one off. Failing to play what is in front of us has now become a chronic weakness.

[Mellsblue]

I think this is the point when my can of beer was nearly slung at the tv (I suppose it would’ve been more apt to kick it, though) and I decided that chatting to my mates on zoom, the vast majority of whom I haven’t seen face to face in over a year, was a more entertaining way to spend the next 45 mins.
Looking at the still, my favourite thing about it is May and Lawrence with hands out ready to receive the ball. Either they’re selling the dummy line like their life depends on it it or they are about to be bitterly disappointed only half a second later. Ah, the futility of it all.

[Mellsblue]

I’ve decided I’m going with the theory that Jones told the team to play to honour the memory of Pullin and they decided to act out his most famous quote, “we might not be very good but at least we turn up”.

[Digby]

turn up as in a corporeal presence, not turn up as in ready to play. for sure we delivered on the not being very good