RugbyRebels

I wonder if we are going to need to play Henshaw at 12. Because Farrell and Aki weren't at it.

Mr Mwenda wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:Curry was good but I’m wondering if we will see a Curry/Watson/Simmons. Back row for the first test. Beirne and Navidi are good but not in the same class as those 2.

Simmonds has been anonymous for me and seems to be struggling to be involved. What is it that you've seen? Or is the cupboard a bit bare?

Had a very good turnover on the SA line tbf.

Missed that!

whatisthejava wrote:Curry was good but I’m wondering if we will see a Curry/Watson/Simmons. Back row for the first test. Beirne and Navidi are good but not in the same class as those 2.

I'd have thought Gatland will have pencilled Lawes in to start at 6.
Curry will definitely start too, he was superb tonight.

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I'd pick Watson Faletau and either Curry or Beirne.

Simmons has looked a good club player in the bits I have seen but not done anything to answer doubts. I think Faletau is coming back into some form.

Watson has been a standout all tour. Curry is a very good all round player but (I didn't see the second half today), I wouldn't say has been amazing for a while.

I don't normally like locks at 6 but Beirne impresses every time he plays. Has that mobility and game awareness. I see Lawes as more of a bench option personally.

Cameo wrote:I'd pick Watson Faletau and either Curry or Beirne.

Simmons has looked a good club player in the bits I have seen but not done anything to answer doubts. I think Faletau is coming back into some form.

Watson has been a standout all tour. Curry is a very good all round player but (I didn't see the second half today), I wouldn't say has been amazing for a while.

I don't normally like locks at 6 but Beirne impresses every time he plays. Has that mobility and game awareness. I see Lawes as more of a bench option personally.

While not wishing to denigrate Watson, who I think is a bloody good player, does being standout all tour help much when he's been playing in blowouts against weak opposition? Previous to this game, the only even mildly challenging opposition the Lions have faced was Japan and Watson didn't play that game.

Agreed with you on Beirne. He was my 6 before the tour began. Can't abide the thought of Lawes there - it never, ever, ever works at international level.

Puja

I think the Lions need to be mindful of the 1st half rather than the 2nd when SA started rolling through the subs.

Lions were clearly 2nd best in the first 40.

Cameo wrote:I'd pick Watson Faletau and either Curry or Beirne.

Simmons has looked a good club player in the bits I have seen but not done anything to answer doubts. I think Faletau is coming back into some form.

Watson has been a standout all tour. Curry is a very good all round player but (I didn't see the second half today), I wouldn't say has been amazing for a while.

I don't normally like locks at 6 but Beirne impresses every time he plays. Has that mobility and game awareness. I see Lawes as more of a bench option personally.

Curry was very good today. And he can play 8. Faletau/Conan/Simmonds have not been that impressive (though I'd say that Conan looks sharper than the other two.)
On form I'd go for a back row of Beirne (6), Watson (7) and Curry (8).
Big problem at 10 where Farrell lies deep, does not threaten the gain line, just shovels the ball on, or more usually, kicks away possession repeatedly. The Lions had a lot of possession but wasted most of it. They need Henshaw in midfield, whether at 12 or 13. Don't know his fitness status.

Puja wrote:

Cameo wrote:I'd pick Watson Faletau and either Curry or Beirne.

Simmons has looked a good club player in the bits I have seen but not done anything to answer doubts. I think Faletau is coming back into some form.

Watson has been a standout all tour. Curry is a very good all round player but (I didn't see the second half today), I wouldn't say has been amazing for a while.

I don't normally like locks at 6 but Beirne impresses every time he plays. Has that mobility and game awareness. I see Lawes as more of a bench option personally.

While not wishing to denigrate Watson, who I think is a bloody good player, does being standout all tour help much when he's been playing in blowouts against weak opposition? Previous to this game, the only even mildly challenging opposition the Lions have faced was Japan and Watson didn't play that game.

Agreed with you on Beirne. He was my 6 before the tour began. Can't abide the thought of Lawes there - it never, ever, ever works at international level.

Puja

Oh, I agree. I think he's been great for about 8 years though

Right then, let’s throw that cat amongst the pigeons. What’s your test match squad at this point, assuming all are fit?!?

Mine:
Sutherland
George
Furlong
Itoje
Henderson
Beirne
Curry
Faletau

Murray c (but only cos he’s capt)
Biggar
Adams
Henshaw
Harris
Watson
Williams


LCD
Vunipola
Sinckler
AWJ
Watson
Price
Russell
Daly (wanted to pick Hogg but not sure how you’d deal with losing a centre to injury)

Okay, I think I'd go:

Sutherland
George
Furlong
Itoje
Henderson
Beirne
Watson
Faletau
Murray
Russell
Adams
Farrell (I didn't think I was gonna write that!)
Henshaw
Watson
Hogg

Wyn Jones
Owens
Sinckler (would be close to starting him)
Lawes
Curry
Price
Daly
DVDM (actually a but confused about the backs subs - my first two plus who's on the pitch provides loads of cover so was tempted by Aki or another forward - Duham definitely adds something if you are chasing a game though and has looked a bit more rounded this tour)

I'd go for:
Sutherland
George
Furlong
Itoje
Henderson
Beirne
Watson
Faletau (seriously tempted to say Curry here)
Price
Biggar
Watson*
Henshaw
Harris
Adams/VdM*
Hogg (c)

LCD
Jones
Sinckler
Beard
Curry
Murray
Farrell (if Russell is fit or Smith does anything on Saturday then they are in for me)
Williams/Daly

* I don't think the Lions can go wrong at wing so long as LRZ isn't selected.

Mellsblue wrote:Right then, let’s throw that cat amongst the pigeons. What’s your test match squad at this point, assuming all are fit?!?

Mine:
Sutherland
George
Furlong
Itoje
Henderson
Beirne
Curry
Faletau

Murray c (but only cos he’s capt)
Biggar
Adams
Henshaw
Harris
Watson
Williams


LCD
Vunipola
Sinckler
AWJ
Watson
Price
Russell
Daly (wanted to pick Hogg but not sure how you’d deal with losing a centre to injury)

You know, I think I entirely agree with you. The only thing I'd possibly change is dropping Murray regardless of captaincy and picking Hogg over Daly on the bench cause I'd still rather have him coming on even if a centre got injured. Isn't Russell ruled out of at least the first test though?

It is very tempting to try and both eat cake and have it by having Curry at 8 and Watson at 7 though. And I think it could work if you have Beirne at 6 to balance.

Puja

After yesterday I maintain that we're not going to beat SA at their game and would like to see us utilise the strengths in the squad a bit more - powerful and mobile front five, a quick backrow and real strength in the outside backs. So I'd go with:

Sutherland (coin toss with Wyn Jones)
LCD
Furlong
Itoje
Henderson
Beirne
Watson
Curry
Price
Russell (if fit, if not has to be Biggar sadly)
Adams
Henshaw
Daly
Watson
Hogg

Wyn Jones
George
Sinckler
Lawes (though Beard was good yesterday)
Conan
Davies
Biggar
Williams

It won't happen though. I reckon they double down on power and we see:

Vunipola
George
Furlong
Itoje
Henderson
Lawes
Curry
Faletau
Murray
Farrell
Adams
Aki
Henshaw
Watson
Williams

Wyn Jones
Owens
Sinckler
Beard
Berine
Davies
Biggar
Daly

I thought I noticed Daly attempting to trip Am after that big tackle yesterday, but hadn’t noticed the unnecessary hand in the face as Am got to his feet. Both a bit lucky those weren’t picked up.

Mikey Brown wrote:I thought I noticed Daly attempting to trip Am after that big tackle yesterday, but hadn’t noticed the unnecessary hand in the face as Am got to his feet. Both a bit lucky those weren’t picked up.

I thought there was an obvious head on head just after the kick off from a SA box kick chase which ultimately resulted in Liam Williams being replaced.

Numbers wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I thought I noticed Daly attempting to trip Am after that big tackle yesterday, but hadn’t noticed the unnecessary hand in the face as Am got to his feet. Both a bit lucky those weren’t picked up.

I thought there was an obvious head on head just after the kick off from a SA box kick chase which ultimately resulted in Liam Williams being replaced.

Yet another example of a player getting a clear blow to the head and then not being taken off for an HIA, which by definition is the only thing that can tell if he's okay to carry on, but instead just being asked by a physio whether he feels okay and being allowed to play on. I'd call it a joke if it wasn't for the fact that it is strikingly unfunny.

I don't know if Williams was concussed from that original knock. What I do know is that the physio who felt his neck and talked to him for 10 seconds *also* did not know if Williams was concussed from that original knock and didn't hoik him off the pitch to get properly assessed. About one minute later, Williams is involved in a heavy tackle that could easily have become second impact syndrome. Sooner or later, someone is going to die on the pitch because "they seemed fine" and "they wanted to carry on" rather than the doctors pulling them as soon as they get a head knock.

Puja

That is a fun line up.

DHL STORMERS v THE BRITISH & IRISH LIONS

Stuart Hogg – captain (Exeter Chiefs, Scotland) #783
Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby, Wales) #836
Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
Marcus Smith (Harlequins, England)
Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843
Rory Sutherland (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #840
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851
Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
Adam Beard (Ospreys, Wales) #852
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, England) #845
Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland) #847
Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

Replacements:
Jamie George (Saracens, England) #819
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787
Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #848
Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, Wales) #761
Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, England) #849
Gareth Davies (Scarlets, Wales) #850
Chris Harris (Gloucester Rugby, Scotland) #844
Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester Rugby, Wales) #846

Big D wrote:That is a fun line up.

That is indeed! I don't know it'll get anywhere near the tests, but it looks very well balanced, especially Smith having Henshaw and DVDM running hard lines and Hogg/Daly lurking out wide. I think that side would give the midweek one a very interesting match.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Big D wrote:That is a fun line up.

That is indeed! I don't know it'll get anywhere near the tests, but it looks very well balanced, especially Smith having Henshaw and DVDM running hard lines and Hogg/Daly lurking out wide. I think that side would give the midweek one a very interesting match.

Puja

Would be interesting to hear the selection meeting for the 1st test anyway but if Smith blows the doors off it could get interesting.

Puja wrote:

Big D wrote:That is a fun line up.

That is indeed! I don't know it'll get anywhere near the tests, but it looks very well balanced, especially Smith having Henshaw and DVDM running hard lines and Hogg/Daly lurking out wide. I think that side would give the midweek one a very interesting match.

Puja

Strange that we're talking about the midweek side as the test side now, though I'm still not sure Gatland really knows much of it for sure. I'd say most positions are still a 50/50.

Not convinced about the lock pairing. All arms and no trousers. But I like the rest of it, particularly that backrow.

Puja wrote:

Big D wrote:That is a fun line up.

That is indeed! I don't know it'll get anywhere near the tests, but it looks very well balanced, especially Smith having Henshaw and DVDM running hard lines and Hogg/Daly lurking out wide. I think that side would give the midweek one a very interesting match.

Puja

You'd need at least 2 of the backrow to buy into running those hard lines to really recreate what Quins offer up, very hard to resource if just putting in a wing and a centre. Or Smith only gets the wing and the centre and thus runs less of those sort of plays, which might make it easier to read, but I doubt they've much video on Smith to watch as a defence

Big D wrote:

Puja wrote:

Big D wrote:That is a fun line up.

That is indeed! I don't know it'll get anywhere near the tests, but it looks very well balanced, especially Smith having Henshaw and DVDM running hard lines and Hogg/Daly lurking out wide. I think that side would give the midweek one a very interesting match.

Puja

Would be interesting to hear the selection meeting for the 1st test anyway but if Smith blows the doors off it could get interesting.

Eh. I think Smith could score 50 points personally and still not stand a chance - the Stormers aren't a strong enough opposition to change Gatland's mind about things that he's already certain about. The last opportunity for a bolter to make their way in for the tests was the A game.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Big D wrote:

Puja wrote:
That is indeed! I don't know it'll get anywhere near the tests, but it looks very well balanced, especially Smith having Henshaw and DVDM running hard lines and Hogg/Daly lurking out wide. I think that side would give the midweek one a very interesting match.

Puja

Would be interesting to hear the selection meeting for the 1st test anyway but if Smith blows the doors off it could get interesting.

Eh. I think Smith could score 50 points personally and still not stand a chance - the Stormers aren't a strong enough opposition to change Gatland's mind about things that he's already certain about. The last opportunity for a bolter to make their way in for the tests was the A game.

Puja

I am not so sure. Farrell was rotten last night and it showed that the boks defence is hard to break down and Farrell although a player I rate, doesn't have the skills to do it.

If the coaches plan was for Russell to be the bench 10, which we don't really know it was or wasn't, then they'd at least need to discuss Smith if he puts up a really great performance. I didn't say I would or they should pick him but it would need to be discussed and be interesting.

Big D wrote:

Puja wrote:

Big D wrote:
Would be interesting to hear the selection meeting for the 1st test anyway but if Smith blows the doors off it could get interesting.

Eh. I think Smith could score 50 points personally and still not stand a chance - the Stormers aren't a strong enough opposition to change Gatland's mind about things that he's already certain about. The last opportunity for a bolter to make their way in for the tests was the A game.

Puja

I am not so sure. Farrell was rotten last night and it showed that the boks defence is hard to break down and Farrell although a player I rate, doesn't have the skills to do it.

If the coaches plan was for Russell to be the bench 10, which we don't really know it was or wasn't, then they'd at least need to discuss Smith if he puts up a really great performance. I didn't say I would or they should pick him but it would need to be discussed and be interesting.

I'm with you on Farrell having been rotten and also that I don't believe he has the skills to unpick the Boks defence, however I would say there is somewhere between zero and no chance of Gatland not having him in his XXIII. I don't rate him as a captain at all and, while he's a decent player, I don't see him as this world class performer that he's so often held up as. However, the fact remains that coach after coach after coach won't stop picking him, presumably for character reasons that we can't see, and I don't see Gatland breaking that streak. I'll be surprised enough if he benches him!

I hope I'm wrong, cause he's been pretty average since Saracens got relegated and he got a year long rest to get rusty in, but I don't think I will be.

Puja